3 Roster Moves the Twins Need to Make Right Now

[DJL44]

Having Jackson on the roster lets them pinch hit with Jeffers or Caratini every single game. They should be using that roster move more often.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

In a perfect world, it would be nice to have Jackson as a back-up catcher in 2027. But is it worth hamstringing the current roster for the next two months? It's not that hard to find someone equivalent in free agency/via trade in the off-season.

According to the Twins, yes. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Yes this is just the list of guys 21 years old or younger that were called up this year. (Its not like people have just started the Jenkins, Culpepper request to have them up since the deadline, it seems to have been a recurring theme for a while now, No?) Teams have called up players like Jenkins and Culpepper and given them a chance for as long as I have been watching baseball, Some at the beginning of the year, some in the middle and some in end, but sure lets move the goal post to teams don't do it at this time of the year, and ignore that 11 players similar to Jenkins have debuted in the majors this year, and dozens of guys Culpepper's age have a well.  

Didn't Cleveland call up Angel Genao today, he is a 22 year old SS (younger than Culpepper), 

 

 

And as discussed Genao was already on their 40 man.   I really question whether people on this board even understand the potential implications.  

Prospects not currently on the 40 man,  if they are added and get a cup of coffee they will be unable to work with coaches in the offseason or play in the minor leagues next year if there is a lockout.   So players who have played a full season don't apply,  international prospects who were already on the 40 man don't apply.   

I am not saying we can't just say those risks are overblown, the players can work on their own in the offseason and the new CBA will likely get signed so have a mid to late April start date.   However you just can't ignore this issue either.  

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

And as discussed Genao was already on their 40 man.   I really question whether people on this board even understand the potential implications.  

Prospects not currently on the 40 man,  if they are added and get a cup of coffee they will be unable to work with coaches in the offseason or play in the minor leagues next year if there is a lockout.   So players who have played a full season don't apply,  international prospects who were already on the 40 man don't apply.   

I am not saying we can't just say those risks are overblown, the players can work on their own in the offseason and the new CBA will likely get signed so have a mid to late April start date.   However you just can't ignore this issue either.  

I perfectly understand. 

[howeda7]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

According to the Twins, yes. 

I understood keeping him until the trade deadline. I don't understand at all why they didn't trade Jackson.

[90stwinskid]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Lee is a better SS and can play there in an emergency. 

Also, why not call up Culpepper and have Kreidler be your backup? Sure, you lose the LH platoon, but we should be past the point of caring about that, imo.

[howeda7]

13 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Gray’s job is backup SS. He’s the only SS other than Kreidler. Lee played himself out of the position. And Gray is LH bat on the bench. He has some speed, so he’s also a pinch runner. That’s his role and why he’s on the roster. 

They managed fine without Gray for 2 weeks. Lee played SS a couple times. The world didn't end.

[jorgenswest]

10 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Emma has to spend 90 days on the active roster to eliminate the 4th option year. 
3/9-5/5 = 57 days
7/28-8/30 = 33 days = 90 total

He's not getting a 4th option unless he goes back on the 60 day IL soon.

You sound confident that the 2022 season will also count as full. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

According to the Twins, yes. 

Rorverdt cost a legit arm in AAA  at the deadline Mike.     Chayce Mcdermott.  So next year your options are signing Jeffers again,  Signing Heim or Stephenson  to 7+ million AAV contracts or Jake Rogers for around $4 million.  We can always bring back Vazquez or Sanchez.   Otherwise we will have to trade for another catcher.  So yes there is a decent cost to letting him go.   

 

[1985Fan]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Lee is a better SS and can play there in an emergency. 

 

1 minute ago, howeda7 said:

They managed fine without Gray for 2 weeks. Lee played SS a couple times. The world didn't end.

I’ve seen Lee make some terrible plays at SS. Thats why he’s been moved from the position. Not sure Gray is better defensively or not, I was just commenting about what his role is, not necessarily if he’s the best player for that role. 

[howeda7]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

And as discussed Genao was already on their 40 man.   I really question whether people on this board even understand the potential implications.  

Prospects not currently on the 40 man,  if they are added and get a cup of coffee they will be unable to work with coaches in the offseason or play in the minor leagues next year if there is a lockout.   So players who have played a full season don't apply,  international prospects who were already on the 40 man don't apply.   

I am not saying we can't just say those risks are overblown, the players can work on their own in the offseason and the new CBA will likely get signed so have a mid to late April start date.   However you just can't ignore this issue either.  

I don't believe the minors will play either if there is a lockout.

[howeda7]

2 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

 

I’ve seen Lee make some terrible plays at SS. Thats why he’s been moved from the position. Not sure Gray is better defensively or not, I was just commenting about what his role is, not necessarily if he’s the best player for that role. 

It obviously makes the most sense to call up Culpepper for Gray. But if they need Gray's roster spot for Jenkins or something, that's fine too. Gray serves zero purpose right now IMO. He can't hit and he's bad at the only defensive position he ever plays.

[1985Fan]

Just now, 1985Fan said:

 

I’ve seen Lee make some terrible plays at SS. Thats why he’s been moved from the position. Not sure Gray is better defensively or not, I was just commenting about what his role is, not necessarily if he’s the best player for that role. 

Forgot to add that since Lee is full time 3B, he can’t fill the LH bench bat or pinch runner roles.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I perfectly understand. 

It wasn't directed at you.  You at least have defendable stance not that I agree with all of it.  

Pulling up a list of all rookies age 21 isn't even close to answering the discussion we are having. Of course HarmonK loved it.   

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Forgot to add that since Lee is full time 3B, he can’t fill the LH bench bat or pinch runner roles.

Neither can Gray. Well, I guess he can run? But that's no reason for him to be on this roster. 

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

I don't believe the minors will play either if there is a lockout.

They will. They have a separate union now. The MLB CBA doesn't involve them anymore.

[MMMordabito]

I think Walker Jenkins and Kaelen Culpepper can lead us to the World Series!!

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

And as discussed Genao was already on their 40 man.   I really question whether people on this board even understand the potential implications.  

Prospects not currently on the 40 man,  if they are added and get a cup of coffee they will be unable to work with coaches in the offseason or play in the minor leagues next year if there is a lockout.   So players who have played a full season don't apply,  international prospects who were already on the 40 man don't apply.   

I am not saying we can't just say those risks are overblown, the players can work on their own in the offseason and the new CBA will likely get signed so have a mid to late April start date.   However you just can't ignore this issue either.  

I think the risks are severely overblown. I don't think any team should consider any CBA situation at all when making decisions for their team. Trying to guess at what the negotiations will produce in terms of rules or how long the lockout will last is a fools errand. Play by the rules you have in front of you and adjust when needed.

And, while I didn't agree with the deadline strategy, it'd be a pretty poor strategy to act as a contender on 8/3 and switch to worrying about future years on 8/5. The Twins are certainly capable of poor strategies, but they've set their sights on "competing" in 2026. Do what is best for the 2026 team until it gets beyond where you think competing is possible anymore. If these 3 moves are that (I don't think they are) then do them. CBA/lockout/2027 team be damned. You've picked your path. Now follow it. (Even if it's not the path I'd have chosen)

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

15 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

I don't believe the minors will play either if there is a lockout.

As has been mentioned.  Those players part of the union for the minor leagues - not on a 40 man roster, are separated from their MLB counterparts.  They will have a minor league season even if there is a lockout.  

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Prospects not currently on the 40 man,  if they are added and get a cup of coffee they will be unable to work with coaches in the offseason or play in the minor leagues next year if there is a lockout.   So players who have played a full season don't apply,  international prospects who were already on the 40 man don't apply.   

I am not saying we can't just say those risks are overblown, the players can work on their own in the offseason and the new CBA will likely get signed so have a mid to late April start date.   However you just can't ignore this issue either.  

Okay. So if Culpepper or Jenkins needed to be added to the 40-man this offseason it wouldn’t matter if they were called up now. They don’t have to be added until 2027.

[CRF]

I'm 100% on board with all three of these. Can't do it soon enough! The question is...why don't they? 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

I think the risks are severely overblown. I don't think any team should consider any CBA situation at all when making decisions for their team. Trying to guess at what the negotiations will produce in terms of rules or how long the lockout will last is a fools errand. Play by the rules you have in front of you and adjust when needed.

And, while I didn't agree with the deadline strategy, it'd be a pretty poor strategy to act as a contender on 8/3 and switch to worrying about future years on 8/5. The Twins are certainly capable of poor strategies, but they've set their sights on "competing" in 2026. Do what is best for the 2026 team until it gets beyond where you think competing is possible anymore. If these 3 moves are that (I don't think they are) then do them. CBA/lockout/2027 team be damned. You've picked your path. Now follow it. (Even if it's not the path I'd have chosen)

Agreed, except I didn't think they are acting like contenders. All the moves and more importantly, non moves, were marketing, imo. 

[90stwinskid]

32 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Gray’s job is backup SS. He’s the only SS other than Kreidler. Lee played himself out of the position. And Gray is LH bat on the bench. He has some speed, so he’s also a pinch runner. That’s his role and why he’s on the roster. 

Then why not call up Culpepper and put Kreidler on the bench? Only thing you'd be missing is the LH platoon, but that doesn't seem very valuable considering the player batting LH. Baffling might be too strong a word, but I'd def say it's a head scratcher.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

31 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

In a perfect world, it would be nice to have Jackson as a back-up catcher in 2027. But is it worth hamstringing the current roster for the next two months? It's not that hard to find someone equivalent in free agency/via trade in the off-season.

Hamstringing from what.  Where is he holding us back.  Who are you calling up that is going to drastically make a difference in 15-20 at bats a month.  Jackson is a valuable asset in that he doesn't need constant reps because he isn't a young prospect and can still perform.  Granted I would have rather Jeffers not gotten injured and him to be called up after we were able to sneak him through waivers once.  The difference is at the beginning of the season there wasn't a big demand for legit catching options.  Right now there is still excess demand for catching.  

The cost to find someone equivalent is $3 -$7 million dollars on the free agent market or trade a top 20 prospect in the offseason.   Those are the options. We traded a 25-30th prospect this year for him, and he has now shown positive WAR in consecutive seasons.     

[chpettit19]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed, except I didn't think they are acting like contenders. All the moves and more importantly, non moves, were marketing, imo. 

Oh, fully agree that this is at least 95% "look we're not terrible owners and really care about winning" driven. But I don't know that following these 3 suggested moves follows that strategy. You just sold the fans the story that this team is good enough to compete. Turning around and adding 2 rookies and a K machine to the roster 2 days later doesn't exactly follow that storyline. 

I'd chase the RoY pick compensation if I were in charge. If Culpepper gets back to looking like himself for the next 10 days, and Jenkins is looking normal, then I'm calling them up in 10 days. Save their eligibility for the extra pick and get their feet wet for 2027. But, again, that's not the story they're trying to sell. And I wouldn't have sold that story in the first place. So, my plans and there's certainly don't match up.

[TheLeviathan]

Man, baseball needs to consider a late July/Early August transaction window where teams can move players around to each other so that teams with a redundant roster could move parts to better fit what they're trying to accomplish and plug holes.

We really could've used one of those.

[RpR]

Culpepper for Gray makes a lot of sense; Gray turned into Julien in a matter of days, although he also resembles versions of Lewis.

Return of Lurch, NO,  HECK NO!

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Okay. So if Culpepper or Jenkins needed to be added to the 40-man this offseason it wouldn’t matter if they were called up now. They don’t have to be added until 2027.

Neither of those players meet the 4 or 5 year requirements for the rule 5 draft.  Now everything will get wonky after December 1st but those 2 aren't affected for this year.  

[LA Vikes Fan]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think the risks are severely overblown. I don't think any team should consider any CBA situation at all when making decisions for their team. Trying to guess at what the negotiations will produce in terms of rules or how long the lockout will last is a fools errand. Play by the rules you have in front of you and adjust when needed.

And, while I didn't agree with the deadline strategy, it'd be a pretty poor strategy to act as a contender on 8/3 and switch to worrying about future years on 8/5. The Twins are certainly capable of poor strategies, but they've set their sights on "competing" in 2026. Do what is best for the 2026 team until it gets beyond where you think competing is possible anymore. If these 3 moves are that (I don't think they are) then do them. CBA/lockout/2027 team be damned. You've picked your path. Now follow it. (Even if it's not the path I'd have chosen)

There you go. The Twins chose a path, they are trying to compete for the division title or a wild card spot in the 2026 and 2027 seasons. Many of us would have chosen a different path but that's the one they chose. Now make decisions based on that choice. Nothing is more of a "half measure" than choosing a lane and then not making moves that might make that lane successful. So let's quit worrying about what might happen if there is a substantial work stoppage in 2027. Let's not fear the risk of loss; let's focus on the possibility of gain. 

The only place you and I differ is that I think calling up Culpepper and maybe Jenkins could provide a spark and might help this team. It seems like you are a little less hopeful that will occur. Hey, you might be right; I certainly don't know enough to accurately predict what will happen. Having said that, I would call up Culpepper and Jenkins on 8/15, assuming they both continue to hit in AAA for the next 10 days, in place of Gray and Roden unless he all of a sudden one of them gets hot. If one of them does, then Jenkins comes up for the other. Keep Jackson for now, and his spot can be the spot you use to get Buxton on the roster. Buxton can join the roster for Gray if he's available before 8/15, but everything I read suggest he's going to be out at least two or three more weeks. All of this assumes that nobody else gets injured which is usually what happens to open up a spot. Let's all stop the handwringing and make some moves to see if this lane actually works. If it doesn't, at least we tried to make something happen rather than sitting around in limbo which is our usual state.

[clone52]

Didn't read all the replies, but here are my thoughts.

I kinda waver between being competitive this year and also realizing a championship (league or world series is very, very unlikely).  Whatever gets done, I don't want to hurt chances in 2027.  I feel the trade deadline did this.  Helped this year, but didn't hurt 2027.  Obviously didn't do enough to completely contend in 2027, but it took steps that would need to be backed up this offseason.

1) Absolutely send Gray down.  If Culpepper is ready, great.  If not sure, call up Ben Ross.  Heck, even let Marek Houston make the jump from AA.  Roster need is someone that start at SS.

2) If you could guarantee me the Twins could keep Alex Jackson, do it.  If the Twins FO was sold on picking up a starting C in the offseason (free agent or trade), do it.  If the Front office wants to go with Caratini as the starting C next year, then they don't have much of an in house backup option.  But could get a backup C in ;the offseason, though.  Honestly, this probably has more to do with what you backfill it with?  Wallner?  When would he play?  DH against righties (with Larnach in the OF).  Bell has been pretty good against righties, though, so I don't think Wallner is a huge upgrade.  I was told Bell at 1B was a non-starter, so swapping Wallner for Bell, does that really move the needle much?  If you could call someone up who hits lefties well, thats definitely a need.

Honestly, if you risk losing Jackson, I probably replace him with Gabriel Gonzalez.  He's done a lot better against lefties than righties this year.  If you have 40 man space, Sabato would be a good choice.

After typing it up, I would send Jackson down and bring up Gonzalez or Sabato and plug them into the lineup against Lefties.  That could move the needle.

3) Duh, of course, can't imagine anyone disagrees with this.