Deadline Day: Where Things Stand for the Minnesota Twins

[TheLeviathan]

55 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

 

With the Rangers being a last minute selling team... Anyone we want? I've always loved Corey Seager but that contract is massive. 

Contract aside....is he still a SS?  Much less a good one?

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

If it helps with the value that Jeffers may currently have, regardless of your thoughts on whether he "should" be dealt, the Red Sox gave up their #2 prospect (per MLB.com) for Adley Rutschman.

Number 27 overall, and four more guys. 

[USAFChief]

Rutschman does come with an extra year of control. 

[umterp23]

3 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

If it helps with the value that Jeffers may currently have, regardless of your thoughts on whether he "should" be dealt, the Red Sox gave up their #2 prospect (per MLB.com) for Adley Rutschman.

3 of their top 5 prospects from Sox, total,of 4 guys going to O’s plus an additional,player to be named later. He isn’t a Free Agent till after ‘27 season. Extra year of control is huge factor that Jeffers value doesn’t have. Adley is hurt and might not play till mid-August 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

Rutschman does come with an extra year of control. 

Correct. But a big step down from one pitcher to the other, plus four guys 

They aren't trading Jeffers. Ownership won't let them. And I sort of agree. 

[Major League Ready]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

If it helps with the value that Jeffers may currently have, regardless of your thoughts on whether he "should" be dealt, the Red Sox gave up their #2 prospect (per MLB.com) for Adley Rutschman.

Rutschman is also under team control for 2027 so he is really not a comp for Jeffers.

Oops.  I responded before seeing others had the same point.

[TheLeviathan]

13 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Concur.  I was at a game in Cleveland last Friday.  They lost, courtesy of my rally cap which I deployed on behalf of the Diamondbacks in the 8th inning (a hill I will die on).  But the atmosphere in their ballpark was great despite the bullpen meltdown.  Attendance was 36,639.  The fans didn't need constant reminders from the scoreboard to "make some noise."  It's not Fenway but there's a good baseball tradition there.

The Twins' most recent Friday game was July 24th, versus the Athletics of West Sacramento - not much different of a draw to a team in the middle of the country than Arizona, IMO.  Attendance that night was 26,128. Priority #1 is adding about 10,000 to that.  If you're not drawing on weekends, heaven help you.

Cleveland shows me that you can draw (and they still need to improve also) without a roster any better than what the Twins have now.  But you can shoot yourselves in the (marketing) foot with moves like trading Jeffers.

 

I don't think you meant to imply that trading or not trading Jeffers was worth that kind of number of fans (10k), but how much of a needle mover is that?  Is letting him walk in the offseason any different?

I guess I'm genuinely confused that people think relatively middling moves are going to be soul crushing for fans.  The ones that are showing up right now are the diehards, they aren't going to lose them.  I don't see Ryan Jeffers as the lynchpin to getting back to 30k in the stadium.

To put a spin on an old classic: if a bad PR move hits the transaction lines but no one cares enough to read it....did it really make an impact?

[TheLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Number 27 overall, and four more guys. 

Geez, that's even better than I thought.  1 year less of control will knock that down, but we're still talking a top 5-10 prospect probably.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Rutschman is also under team control for 2027 so he is really not a comp for Jeffers.

We aren't going to get a perfect comp.  What it says to me is that Jeffers would not have meaningless value.

The Red Sox just paid through the nose for Rutschman.

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

Geez, that's even better than I thought.  1 year less of control will knock that down, but we're still talking a top 5-10 prospect probably.

Let's see how desperate the Yankees get in the next 3 hours... 

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

Let's see how desperate the Yankees get in the next 3 hours... 

I think the Twins have made up their mind.  It's not what I'd do, but water under the bridge at this point.

I just hope we don't see a Tolle and Arias for Ryan post in a year that makes us all cringe while we watch Jeffers hit for the Yanks anyway.

[Major League Ready]

5 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

We aren't going to get a perfect comp.  What it says to me is that Jeffers would not have meaningless value.

The Red Sox just paid through the nose for Rutschman.

I was just looking over the return and thought the same thing.  You have to believe they could get a really good return for Jeffers.  Could they have gotten Eyanson straight up?

[umterp23]

PR while it can fluctuate, bottom line is winning ballgames. If we blow chunks in August and September is meaningless, which is a very strong possibility, your PR nightmare is we didn’t do enough at deadline for the future. Don’t sell your souls with top prospects, but don’t toot the horn we are buyers with trades we have done so far.

[ashbury]

5 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think you meant to imply that trading or not trading Jeffers was worth that kind of number of fans (10k), but how much of a needle mover is that?  Is letting him walk in the offseason any different?

I guess I'm genuinely confused that people think relatively middling moves are going to be soul crushing for fans.  The ones that are showing up right now are the diehards, they aren't going to lose them.  I don't see Ryan Jeffers as the lynchpin to getting back to 30k in the stadium.

To put a spin on an old classic: if a bad PR move hits the transaction lines but no one cares enough to read it....did it really make an impact?

We have Jeffers now, so no, hanging on to him for two more months isn't the answer to adding 10k.

It's going to take a decade of good faith by ownership to salvage this market.  Jeffers is just a tiny piece at the moment.  You know the phrase AITA?  If the Twins trade Jeffers now, they're the A.  If they keep him and he walks at season's end, he's the A.  Simple as that.

You and I will disagree about the value of the prospects Jeffers' two months would bring in return, versus the goodwill to the local fan base.  Indeed, it depends on whether another team is desperate enough to offer enough to change the calculus - something like what Boston just traded could probably be spun positively to Twins fans.

Joe Pohlad and Dave St Peter set the franchise back several years in their path back to relevance in their market, with their ham-handed PR in the 2023-24 timeframe.  To fix that may require doing things that don't strictly optimize the flow of prospect capital.

Ownership and the FO have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ashbury]

2 minutes ago, umterp23 said:

PR while it can fluctuate, bottom line is winning ballgames. 

I believe you have it exactly backwards.  If you have a good relationship with the fans, THEN you can be single-minded about trying to build a winner.  Lacking that, you need to aim for balance.

Bottom line is the health of the franchise.  Right now the Twins are sickly.

[thelanges5]

Zach Neto

Bob Nightengale says the Twins "would love to have" the Angels shortstop, adding an intriguing new wrinkle to the final hours before Monday's trade deadline.

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

 

Getting another 7 or 8 thousand more fans per game at TF, selling more Twins TV packages, more jerseys. Those things are way more important to the future of the Twins than whatever you get for Ryan Jeffers. 

How to make the above happen is open for debate, for sure. But I do believe that is, and should be, the first priority. 

And I absolutely believe selling right now won't play well with the vast majority of fans. 

 

Good points and I understand your perspective, even if I don't totally agree. 

But I really don't think holding onto Jeffers is going to put 7-8000 butts in the seats.

However I do think that selling right now won't play great, you are right....but part of leadership is making tough decisions for the present AND the future, not just throwing red meat to fans.  

[Nashvilletwin]

Hard to believe that we aren’t moving Jeffers and/or Ryan.  A couple of ridiculous low probability comebacks are all that separate the Twins from being 6-10 after the AS break  But that’s enough to create the delusion about playoff hopes and to abandon building the team for the future.

This is what perpetually mediocre franchises do, especially those with weak ownership that can’t take the local heat from the media and fans.

Once again, we are half in and half out and we will get no return from our biggest assets.  With the strike pending next season, Ryan’s value will plummet.  It was lunancy not to take the Bosox deal at last season’s deadline.  Nothing for Ryan and Jeffers.  We will see about Lopez and Buxton….

[Woof Bronzer]

17 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I believe you have it exactly backwards.  If you have a good relationship with the fans, THEN you can be single-minded about trying to build a winner.  Lacking that, you need to aim for balance.

Bottom line is the health of the franchise.  Right now the Twins are sickly.

Not sure about this.  The 2 highest attendance years for the Metrodome were 1988 and 1992.  I don't think the fan relationship was that great leading up to 87, they hadn't made the playoffs in nearly 2 decades until then.

Fans like winning!  

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Not sure about this.  The 2 highest attendance years for the Metrodome were 1988 and 1992.  I don't think the fan relationship was that great leading up to 87, they hadn't made the playoffs in nearly 2 decades until then.

Fans like winning!  

The number one factor in attendance is previous year's record. 

[thelanges5]

Varsho to the Astros, is Larnach safe?!?

[thelanges5]

[thelanges5]

Heyman: Padres "trying" on Trevor Larnach, Alec Burleson, Lars Nootbaar.

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

Heyman: Padres "trying" on Trevor Larnach, Alec Burleson, Lars Nootbaar.

Morejon for Larnach sounds pretty good to me 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Let's see how desperate the Yankees get in the next 3 hours... 

I would just add that both Boston and Tampa upgraded their catching.  Yankee's would be odd man out if they can't pry Jeffers from Twins or Goodman from Colorado and Goodman would cost them the farm. They could pay a stiff price and still sign Jeffers in the offseason.

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

I would just add that both Boston and Tampa upgraded their catching.  Yankee's would be odd man out if they can't pry Jeffers from Twins or Goodman from Colorado and Goodman would cost them the farm. They could pay a stiff price and still sign Jeffers in the offseason.

The current Yankees catching situation is not championship caliber. Austin Wells is really bad at the plate. 

[TopGunn#22]

The indecision of the Twins ownership and FO is showing.  They never have a plan and here we are again...the opportunities to improve the club are disappearing minute by minute.  They just don't seem to have the courage to make a deal of consequence.  Jeffers to the Yankees at this point should be a no-brainer.  Re-open the Larnach to the Astros for Bryan Abreu with fire in your eyes.  Don't let an owner with ants in his pants spoil a deal that would help both teams.

I love the idea we are pursuing Zach Neto with zeal.  He's 26 years old, a GOOD SS and a guy with 30/30 potential.  He's already been close to 30/30 twice in his young career.  Yes, he strikes out too much, but he's the SS for the rest of this year and as much of next year as needed until Marek Houston is ready.  Then you've got a Gold Glove caliber SS and a Gold Glove caliber 2B.  

We're 90 minutes away from the deadline.  At least go get Neto.  Especially with Byron Buxton probably on the I.L. for several weeks.  

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

The current Yankees catching situation is not championship caliber. Austin Wells is really bad at the plate. 

If they want to keep up in the division they have to desperate to upgrade at this point.

[Nashvilletwin]

Can we just call it like it is.  We’re about 60 minutes from the deadline and we have done zippo of consequence to improve the team for this year or the future.  For all practical purposes we’ve treaded water and are watching the value of our best assets plummet.  It’s hard to believe this is the strategy.

[Western SD Fan]

20 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The current Yankees catching situation is not championship caliber. Austin Wells is really bad at the plate. 

Was listening to Foul Territory earlier today.  Their rumors were that the Yankees actually believe Austin Wells's bat is picking up.  They like his defense and handling of the pitching staff.  This could very well be setting up the fan base to when 6 pm ET rolls around and they didn't pick up a catcher.