Rays Could Be Perfect Trade Deadline Partner for Two Veteran Twins

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, DataNerd said:

We signed Caratini as a FA in the offseason because the league wasn't giving him the contract we thought he was worth.  I'm not sure that a team is all of a sudden more excited about Caratini now when he looks to be pretty much the same player he was the last 2 years.

True, but teams are now either in position to make the playoffs, on the bubble, or out. Now a team that is in or near might want a C they didn't want before the year started. I think some of them would. 

[Road trip]

1 hour ago, hitterscount said:

Wallner is not a legit corner outfielder.... period. No explanation needed.... trading Larnach and replacing him with Wallner is a terrible plan. I don't have an issue of moving either player because of the reasons listed , there are current options to stay competitive, but Wallner isn't one of them. 

Both are bad fielders.  Larnach should also really be a DH at this point.  If you look up Larnach on Baseball Savant you won't find a meaningful statistical difference between him and Wallner, unfortunately.  

If Larnach is traded, next man up in LF is likely dealer's choice of Roden/Martin/Keaschall/Jenkins/Clemens/Mendez/Gonzalez/ERod.  Good grief, that is an excess of possibilities.

[Road trip]

Philosophically I agree with the article.  The Twins are too close in the race to give up this year.  It may just be a "chip and a chair" approach, but baseball is weird in small samples, and with two months left this is pretty much a small sample.

Trading from excess for immediate pitching help is fine by me.  They can't realistically carry 3 catchers for the duration of the season, so trade one.  They have an excess of corner outfielder/dh types, so trade one if there is any market demand for them.  Build up that bullpen, maybe get a possible 4th starter, roll the dice.  Tampa seems a good fit for this type of trade due to their own needs, motivations, and pitching depth.

[Coach]

Sell high, get it done.  Please take Wallner out of the replacement candidates, better yet, throw him in the deal.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I think trading Jeffers is the right move, but I wonder if Tampa Bay is the right trade partner for what I want to do. I don't want to trade Jeffers for just prospects, even ones we think might be ready to help a little bit next year. I want to trade Jeffers for a pitcher who can help us this year in the rotation or the bullpen and who has control beyond this year. I am willing to add a high-end prospect to Jeffers to make that happen. From what I've read, Tampa is in the market for bullpen help itself so I doubt if they have the ability or willingness to trade us a 2026 pitching staff piece. Trading him to the Yankees is the same problem, they need pitching are so are unlikely to give us pitching we can use this year. I think Seattle might be a better trade partner.

I am sort of willing to trade Laranch for prospects but it's hard to get excited about it unless they we get very good or elite pitching prospects and I don't think he will garner that kind of return. I don't think it makes sense to trade him for middling prospects or guys that are two or three years out. I think we keep Larnach.

 

 

[Coach]

1 hour ago, Patzky said:

Wonder if Tampa would take the cheap route and inquire about Caratini, also effectively keeping Jeffers out of the Yankees' hands.

Yankees would snap him up.

[DJL44]

6 minutes ago, LA Vikes Fan said:

I want to trade Jeffers for a pitcher who can help us this year in the rotation or the bullpen and who has control beyond this year.

Elmer Rodriguez would be nice.

[rdehring]

As I have been reading the comments about Larnach, with some saying we won't get a great return.  You may be correct, in which case they should keep him.  Was wondering, however, what did we get from the Phillies for Bader last year?  Was it Able, or was he in the Duran trade?  Bader was great defensively, but isn't Larnach hitting better than Bader was?  Plus, did Bader have another year of control?

[IndianaTwin]

6 minutes ago, rdehring said:

As I have been reading the comments about Larnach, with some saying we won't get a great return.  You may be correct, in which case they should keep him.  Was wondering, however, what did we get from the Phillies for Bader last year?  Was it Able, or was he in the Duran trade?  Bader was great defensively, but isn't Larnach hitting better than Bader was?  Plus, did Bader have another year of control?

Bader for Hendry Mendez and Jeremy Villoria. Bader was a free agent, so only two months of value. Bader was way better defensively and was hitting above average, so he had generated 2.7 bWAR for the Twins, whereas Larnach has generated 1.6 this year. 

Larnach's having an extra year may outweigh that Bader was performing better, but I'm not sure that's a huge difference. 

[IndianaTwin]

If the thought is to trade Larnach and replace him with a Wallner that is hitting well in St Paul, I'd rather just trade Wallner, even if for a bit less, and not mess up the major league roster mojo. 

[1985Fan]

FYI, according to rumors, TB is targeting Hunter Goodman of the Rockies. As are the Yankees. Remains to be seen if Goodman is made available. Seattle has Raleigh and Garver at catcher. Raleigh and others at DH. Josh Naylor at 1B. Not sure they’d even be interested in Jeffers. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

I don’t think the thought is to trade Larnach and bring up Wallner to play that position. I think it’s much more likely that left field will become a Roden/Martin platoon, with Keaschall the every day RF . I think they would either call up Jenkins, but maybe Gonzales, to take the roster spot or make Clemens the extra outfielder on a utility basis, and call up another infielder, probably Tristan Gray.  I don’t think Wallner is likely to ever be a regular outfielder again for the Twins because his defense is so bad and we have other options. I think his future in Minnesota is limited to a DH role. I think his realistic future is a trade to another team and a fresh start, hopefully with a weaker team that can let him play. 

[clone52]

Jeffers and Larnach for Bodine and TJ Nichols.

 

Then to show its not a white flag for the team, go get Goodman from the Rockies.

[DataNerd]

1 hour ago, IndianaTwin said:

Bader for Hendry Mendez and Jeremy Villoria. Bader was a free agent, so only two months of value. Bader was way better defensively and was hitting above average, so he had generated 2.7 bWAR for the Twins, whereas Larnach has generated 1.6 this year. 

Larnach's having an extra year may outweigh that Bader was performing better, but I'm not sure that's a huge difference. 

If you look at fWAR, Larnach is at 2.1 and Bader was at 2.0 when traded (BR uses DRS for defense while FanGraphs uses statcast which causes the difference).  Bader did get a value bump because he could play CF, but I think Larnach will get more than the Bader did, with the caveat that Mendez is more highly valued now than when we got him.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Right now Yankees look like the most plausible option for both Larnach and Jeffers. Due to injuries they need an outfielder and catcher. The issue is what are they willing to offer. This could end up as a 3 way trade but there are definitely options that are occurring. For 2 months I would be willing to deal with Wallner and Roden in right. Get some pitching help and see what you can do. 

[HarmonK03]

Wallner needs a change of scenery with a new organization.  It isn't going to work here, there are plenty of options behind him starting with Jenkins.  Move him for a bucket of balls if that is all they can get.  The way he has been hitting in AAA, he should have been called up, but if feels as if they have moved on.  He has had chances in the past, let him move on.  We need to clear the excess of outfielders and he is an easy one to move.

The outfield next Tuesday should be Jenkins, Buxton, Keaschall with either Larnach or Bell as DH.  One of those two needs to be moved.

 

[hitterscount]

3 hours ago, Road trip said:

Both are bad fielders.  Larnach should also really be a DH at this point.  If you look up Larnach on Baseball Savant you won't find a meaningful statistical difference between him and Wallner, unfortunately.  

If Larnach is traded, next man up in LF is likely dealer's choice of Roden/Martin/Keaschall/Jenkins/Clemens/Mendez/Gonzalez/ERod.  Good grief, that is an excess of possibilities.

The defensive stats might be similar, but Larnach is getting to balls that Wallner never could. Larnachs defense is improving. , however I am not mistaken him as a gold glover…. when you throw in batting there is no comparison, Larnach hands down the better player.

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

Bader for Hendry Mendez and Jeremy Villoria. Bader was a free agent, so only two months of value. Bader was way better defensively and was hitting above average, so he had generated 2.7 bWAR for the Twins, whereas Larnach has generated 1.6 this year. 

Larnach's having an extra year may outweigh that Bader was performing better, but I'm not sure that's a huge difference. 

Is this a good use of WAR? Comparing a player that played CF quite a bit will get a positional boost just for playing CF. Larnach is getting a positional deduction for playing a corner and DH. On Fangraphs Larnach’s offensive contribution to WAR is 14.1 runs and Bader’s was 6.6. BR lists it as wins where it is 2.2 for Larnach and 1.2 for Bader. Are the Rays in the need of a corner bat or a guy who can play CF?

[DocBauer]

If Seattle is looking for offense and is making Hancock available, I'd try to add to the deal and see if we can get a bullpen arm from them and add someone like Gonzalez or Mendez to the deal and maybe a 20-30 prospect to sweeten the deal.

We get a SP and a pen arm ready, nor near ready, and they get an immediate bat and a future bat, if not immediate.