Brewers 9, Twins 0: Brewers' Pressure Breaks the Twins Yet Again

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Bader making an enormous botch like that...what the hell? (weird that no one seems to care about that and is focusing on organizational philosophy 

Maybe because Bader making a one-off error that he probably never made before and probably will never make again is multiple orders of magnitude less of a factor in what ails this organization. 

 

Organizational philosophy and execution is where the focus should be. 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

Lewis had ZIP to do with the winning streak.

I would not blame Wallner but he is now sinking to a level that sends some back to AAA both bat and glove.

The main point on my post isn't about Lewis or Wallner. It's the correlation of the change of how Baldelli changed his managing & us winning & losing.

[darwin22]

I'm sure many TD fans remember the following quote from--"The Natural," which seems quite appropriate to the current sad state of affairs with this entire organization:

"Losing is a disease.....as contagious as bubonic plague....attacking one...but infecting all"

I refuse to invest any more  time and emotional attachment to this team until a complete and total overhaul happens.  

Peace out.

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, darwin22 said:

I'm sure many TD fans remember the following quote from--"The Natural," which seems quite appropriate to the current sad state of affairs with this entire organization:

"Losing is a disease.....as contagious as bubonic plague....attacking one...but infecting all"

I refuse to invest any more  time and emotional attachment to this team until a complete and total overhaul happens.  

Peace out.

Why did they stop winning if it's about emotions and streaks? 

They just aren't a great team. And it's worse when CC isn't hitting and pablt is out. 

[Vanimal46]

Buxton is literally the only person worth watching on the team right now. If anything happens to him it’s going to get really ugly. 

[Rhyno006]

These guys are in September 2024 form right now without a doubt.

I guess the bright side is good seats are available at a nice discount for all remaining home games...  

[Doc Lenz]

3 hours ago, ryan189 said:

awful look by lee not running on dropped 3rd strike needs to be benched for a game can't do that especially as a rookie.

Rocco didn’t bench Castro after he thought he homered and was thrown out at second base because he didn’t run hard so no way he should tomorrow. Would show selective punishment.

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Maybe because Bader making a one-off error that he probably never made before and probably will never make again is multiple orders of magnitude less of a factor in what ails this organization. 

 

Organizational philosophy and execution is where the focus should be. 

Or it's just easier to blame the manager, where there's no objective standard for if they're "good" or not? Even for the front office, you can find plenty of reasons to ignore win-loss record to assess their achievement or lack thereof, so you can always bury both of them and it simply comes down to opinion on whether you like them or dislike them.

Bader making that error was an absolute shocker...but it's also one that he absolutely can't make. He's not a rookie, he's not a fringe MLB guy, and at a time when the team simply can't afford these kind of mistakes and veteran need to step up to pull the team out of the doldrums, he made an awful mistake that he never should have made.

Now, that happens. and I'm not going to make any assumptions about Bader's personal character or anything. But it was pretty impactful, and people are ignoring it in favor of bashing away at the front office and the manager, neither of whom were on the field today or yesterday, when the team basically looked like trash. It's why it's hard to take some of the criticisms seriously to me, because the performance of players on the field is always always always going to be far more impactful than anything the manager does strategically.

the front office had very limited resources to work with in the offseason, and spent most of them on Bader...who again, seems immune to criticism. And he's worked out, overall, even with today being a disaster...so, did the front office get it right or are they stupid? (the rest of their money they spent on Coulombe, who has been very good overall and France who has been ok-ish, but certainly isn't a high K, big power, no defense player like people act like this front office only wants)

This team is better than they're playing right now, not as good as when they were on the big win streak. But right now they're a mess and losing in every possible way you can come up with. Good players are falling apart at the worst time, making absurd errors, melting down out of nowhere, and everyone having bad days at the same time. Fire the manager if you like, throw out the whole front office...but you can never turn over the whole roster unless you eat a lot of money, which we know will never ever happen.

So it's on the players to do better or the season will go into the tank (it's far from over yet), but organizational philosophy is far from the biggest problem. 

[Vanimal46]

5 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

the front office had very limited resources to work with in the offseason,

The Twins still have the highest payroll in the AL Central, no? And have held that position for the last 5-6 years or more? No excuses for Falvey. This is the team he wanted and it’s failing on multiple levels. 

[S Bart]

I would not be surprised if the Twins hierarchy decide to start a fire sale of players soon. It would save the owners money and perhaps they can obtain some good prospects. Ryan and a few of the young players on the team could be trade possibilities. I am almost certain that you will see Vasquez, Castro, and Paddack as well as some of these one-year contract players (Bader, France) depart at the end of the year. Seattle and Detroit are games on the horizon which is scary. Fingers crossed...a miracle will blossom.

[USAFChief]

30 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Or it's just easier to blame the manager, where there's no objective standard for if they're "good" or not? Even for the front office, you can find plenty of reasons to ignore win-loss record to assess their achievement or lack thereof, so you can always bury both of them and it simply comes down to opinion on whether you like them or dislike them.

Bader making that error was an absolute shocker...but it's also one that he absolutely can't make. He's not a rookie, he's not a fringe MLB guy, and at a time when the team simply can't afford these kind of mistakes and veteran need to step up to pull the team out of the doldrums, he made an awful mistake that he never should have made.

Now, that happens. and I'm not going to make any assumptions about Bader's personal character or anything. But it was pretty impactful, and people are ignoring it in favor of bashing away at the front office and the manager, neither of whom were on the field today or yesterday, when the team basically looked like trash. It's why it's hard to take some of the criticisms seriously to me, because the performance of players on the field is always always always going to be far more impactful than anything the manager does strategically.

the front office had very limited resources to work with in the offseason, and spent most of them on Bader...who again, seems immune to criticism. And he's worked out, overall, even with today being a disaster...so, did the front office get it right or are they stupid? (the rest of their money they spent on Coulombe, who has been very good overall and France who has been ok-ish, but certainly isn't a high K, big power, no defense player like people act like this front office only wants)

This team is better than they're playing right now, not as good as when they were on the big win streak. But right now they're a mess and losing in every possible way you can come up with. Good players are falling apart at the worst time, making absurd errors, melting down out of nowhere, and everyone having bad days at the same time. Fire the manager if you like, throw out the whole front office...but you can never turn over the whole roster unless you eat a lot of money, which we know will never ever happen.

So it's on the players to do better or the season will go into the tank (it's far from over yet), but organizational philosophy is far from the biggest problem. 

Focusing on one error by one player in one game seems to me to miss a lot, but to each his own.

 

[ryan189]

2 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

Rocco didn’t bench Castro after he thought he homered and was thrown out at second base because he didn’t run hard so no way he should tomorrow. Would show selective punishment.

castro is a veteran lee is a rookie there are different rules

[Blyleven2011]

The twins don't seem to be a homerun hitting team  , they think they are ...

Maybe they're saving the homers for the playoffs that they are thinking about getting into at the end of the season ...

Maybe they should just stop thinking and just play the game the way they were intended to ...

Rocco doesn't think , so the players don't think either  , nothing seems to rattle the players on how embarrassing they are playing ..

Milwaukee is playing for something and it shows , the twins are not and it shows  ...

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Oh hum!  Just another in a series of boring baseball "produced" by our Twins.  Good article.  It describes what has bothered me most about the Rocco/ Falvey regime.  Station to station ball waiting for a honer or a clutch hit from our "stars".  Very poor fundamentals.  No team speed and just average power.  But they can blame it on the injuries.  Their farm system isn't nearly as strong as they tell us.  Oh well.  Another loss perhaps on Sunday.  Please at least look like you care and give an effort.

It is difficult to watch a Team that cannot seem to bunt in any situation, ever. A piece of the game is missing. The inability to steal bases or attempt it is a more glaring Roster flaw……if they were top 8 in HR it could be tolerable, but slow and impotent is a problem!

Gotta be real though - creating problems from game situations just to be able to fill more words in the article is equally frustrating. Bader on 1B with one out and Wallner at the plate & he lines out……..if Bader runs it has Zero impact in the positioning of the 2B or him “moving”……with LH bat up the SS is almost directly behind 2B and covering ever time with any LH batter…..baseball 101. No need to create more of a stir with the Team’s shortcomings with additional strife about their play & how “things might have been better.”

[Bodie]

14 hours ago, Maybebaby said:

Pretty ballsy of you to write "big bats" in talking about the Twins.

"Batty" is what it is...

[JD-TWINS]

7 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

The twins don't seem to be a homerun hitting team  , they think they are ...

Maybe they're saving the homers for the playoffs that they are thinking about getting into at the end of the season ...

Maybe they should just stop thinking and just play the game the way they were intended to ...

Rocco doesn't think , so the players don't think either  , nothing seems to rattle the players on how embarrassing they are playing ..

Milwaukee is playing for something and it shows , the twins are not and it shows  ...

Can’t disagree too much.

As a fan and being faithful to the talent, I feel worse things were said in April & May about the Club……..and then they were 6-7 games over and in 2nd place. I am not relying on nor expect another 10 game winning streak but they are 2 games under and they’ve got 76 games behind them with 86 to go.

I think that with Keaschall and Lewis they actually have a chance to play the last 70 games at 10 games over .500. If they can muster .500 by the break they will be in the mix or can be…….if they are 5 under at the break there could be some moves late next month. Not very likely though as our relievers will only bring limited value in return.

OWNERSHIP being in flux doesn’t help the Roster, Players frame of mind, nor the fans level of optimism. It’s a problem!!

[Bodie]

10 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Buxton is literally the only person worth watching on the team right now. If anything happens to him it’s going to get really ugly. 

Agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence. The cupboard is otherwise bare in terms of entertainment or effectiveness. (Sorry Joe Ryan... but you'll live and possibly thrive)

The second?  Not sure how it gets uglier (no pitching at all, no defense,  no fundamentals anywhere, and just enough erratic scoring to pull out a game to prevent an embarrassing sweep), and surely don't want to see it if it does!

[Bodie]

15 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

YIKES!

Same score as if the literally didn't show up! Forfeit line:

MIL 111 111 111 900

MIN 000 000 000 000

Would've been just as well off (and statistically better) if the entire team got lost on the way to work (or whatever you call what they are doing to merit their paycheck)...

[Bodie]

12 hours ago, OvertheHill said:

I’m in the same camp. The smugness is such a huge turn off. This organization is just so much smarter than the average fan. The product on the field completely disavows major elements of the game of baseball, and they make no apologies for it. It seems like they double down on every flawed approach to roster construction and in game decision making. As big a fan and student of the game I am, I’m not spending any of my pension dollars on this mess. 

Be optimistic, old boy!!!!

I am pretty sure they won't sign Joey, Whose Name We Shall Not Speak, again.  So they can learn.

Pretty sure, anyway...

[Jeff K]

16 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

Lack of hustle. Lack of effort. I don't care what the score is. If the ball gets past the catcher on the third strike, run to first base. That play by Lee signifies the Twins play in June.

Rocco needs to bench Lee for a couple of games after not running out the strike out/passed ball.

[Jeff K]

13 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

what a disaster this team is right now. Bader making an enormous botch like that...what the hell? (weird that no one seems to care about that and is focusing on organizational philosophy in the game thread)

The offense only getting 4 hits, yuck.

players need to perform. you want to fire the manager...whatever. I doubt it makes much difference? A new manager doesn't make Bride or Kiersey useful. A new manager doesn't prevent the bullpen from melting down or puts more guys getting on base. A new front office right now won't actually get new players in to help out, because the ownership isn't going to open the purse strings.

Will firing Rocco make more fans show up? Again: not unless the team starts playing better.

While I don't disagree with your comments, I would add that firing Rocco might help fans believe that someone is paying attention.  I do understand that he doesn't hit, pitch or field.  I would also do something to shake up the players.

[Jeff K]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

It is difficult to watch a Team that cannot seem to bunt in any situation, ever. A piece of the game is missing. The inability to steal bases or attempt it is a more glaring Roster flaw……if they were top 8 in HR it could be tolerable, but slow and impotent is a problem!

Gotta be real though - creating problems from game situations just to be able to fill more words in the article is equally frustrating. Bader on 1B with one out and Wallner at the plate & he lines out……..if Bader runs it has Zero impact in the positioning of the 2B or him “moving”……with LH bat up the SS is almost directly behind 2B and covering ever time with any LH batter…..baseball 101. No need to create more of a stir with the Team’s shortcomings with additional strife about their play & how “things might have been better.”

but slow and impotent is a problem!  Reminds me of a quote from Animal House.  "Fat, dumb and lazy is no way to go through life".  I butchered the quote, but hey, it's been a few years/decades!

 

[David Maro]

Can't hit 101,can't hit 90 just what can you hit. In town for Back to the 50's and glad to not have to say I watched Friday or Saturday.

[GNess]

The almost daily disappointment watching the Twins find a way to lose and look bad in doing so for big chunks of the season for now. going on two seasons clearly suggests system-wide organizational failure. The Twins are performing in a dysfunctional manner that likely can't self-correct. It's going to require some significant changes.

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, knothole61 said:

Sjoski...this is amazing, thanks for the stat. Is it a lack of perspiration, or inspiration? Probably some of both? Man, it's been awful!

I think “execution”…….. in this streak there’s a 16 run game - 16 run game - 17 run game - 9 run game……….while it’s nothing to be proud of, these 4 contests skew the last 15 games and associated ERA.

Wentz is a scrap heap guy that will be gone soon if he isn’t already and him, coupled with Bride had to give 15 of those runs in 2-3 games. Not great but not all bad.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Jeff K said:

Rocco needs to bench Lee for a couple of games after not running out the strike out/passed ball.

What will that prove to anyone? How will that help the team if you play a lesser player in those two games? You really think this would help more than a conversation? He's not twelve. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, GNess said:

The almost daily disappointment watching the Twins find a way to lose and look bad in doing so for big chunks of the season for now. going on two seasons clearly suggests system-wide organizational failure. The Twins are performing in a dysfunctional manner that likely can't self-correct. It's going to require some significant changes.

Agreed

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

How does the ownership being in flux impact the players?  They are all on guaranteed contracts and get paid the same this season no matter who the owners are.  They are supposed to be professionals and should be playing as such by running out all plays and showing that they care about the product that they are putting out there.

I'm curious. Do you really think the players don't care?

[Doc Lenz]

13 hours ago, ryan189 said:

castro is a veteran lee is a rookie there are different rules

If there are different rules there is a problem.

[USAFChief]

27 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm curious. Do you really think the players don't care?

We know at least one cant be bothered to run to 1st on a dropped third strike.