“Just Having Fun”: Royce Lewis and the Ironic Burden of Joy in Pro Sports

[mickster]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

When Lewis rejoined the Twins, that was the time the Twins started their successful run, which is still going on, independent of his offense. It's the intangible of positivity that Lewis brings, of which Twins constantly battle with negativity. Also, the chemistry that occurs when the core is complete. The Twins sliding isn't due to Lewis as much as the absence of Correa & Buxton. Correa is back but Buxton & Bader are absent in the OF. IMO, sending Lewis down will hurt the Twins more than help. His bat will come around, it's just a matter of time.

and when it does, he is a great trade candidate

[USAFChief]

All the why's and wherefores are interesting, but ultimately miss the point.

He's been an abysmal hitter since the second half last year, his swing is visibly messed up, and hes not contributing to winning.

He's only on the MLB team due to factors unrelated to actual play. He shouldn't be. He should be in St Paul. End of story.

[NYCTK]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Royce at third, Miranda at first, Julien at 2nd. That's not hard. I don't know what to do with Royce at this point. I really don't, but there is not a bottleneck in AAA holding them back from sending him down. 

Yeah, the Twins shouldn't be overly concerned about stealing playing time from the other 2023 Seattle Mariner 1B or Armando Alvarez.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I agree with Peter but not for the same reasons—I wish the front office would trade him. Trade him to a team that believes in him instead of keeping him around and handling him like a utility player with a bad attitude. Though I think that last part is mostly a media creation. Secondary and tertiary effects being seen here. Think of the pitching Lewis could have returned. 

Like Rosario and Dozier, I think Lewis has CHAMPION written all over him. Or did at one point. Would have liked to see this play out if they had shown faith in him like these other teams did with their SS  Bobby Witt, Gunnar Henderson, Zack Neto, Volpe who the NYY fans don’t like but is quietly doing well, etc. But we can’t go back, so trade him.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, mickster said:

and when it does, he is a great trade candidate

If you don't care about winning anything

[T.O.]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Someone struggling doesn't necessarily mean someone screwed up. Why does there have to be fault assigned? Feels like people are reading in what they want when assigning "blame" for Lewis' problems this season.

The Twins resistance to trade, release, demote, or bench someone is perportional  to how much they have invested in then, money and marketing.  That's the theme. Lewis has been built into superstar status and he hasn't earned it. 

Not saying anything about blame here and don't tell us "people what we're reading into things or that there's something wrong with it.

[2wins87]

The leg injuries have obviously played a toll, all the awkward looking check swings make that clear. Even if his legs are totally healthy now, he's probably spent too much time compensating and needs to get back to a place where his legs are comfortable and generating power.

I can tell his swing doesn't look totally right, though I'm not versed enough to know exactly why, but I've been looking at his bat tracking metrics.  His bat speed has been down, though it is ticking back up recently.  His average bat speed is now pretty much the same as last year (it was lower a week or two ago) but still down 2 MPH from 2023.  His fast swing rate (percent of swings >75 mph) is still a bit down from last year and way down from 2023.  This has also ticked up over the last week or so.

So I'm hopeful he will find the success again soon, but it's clearly a mechanical issue, not luck, and probably not really his approach at the plate or the way he's being pitched either. He needs to find his swing again.

[NYCTK]

28 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Would have liked to see this play out if they had shown faith in him like these other teams did with their SS  Bobby Witt, Gunnar Henderson, Zack Neto, Volpe who the NYY fans don’t like but is quietly doing well, etc. But we can’t go back, so trade him.

Yet again, I'm put in a weird position of defending the Twins organization against completely unfair attacks. What do you even mean by this? Are you under the impression he had multiple season ending injuries because he's like Tinkerbell and the Twins organization just didn't believe hard enough? 

He was in the major leagues, seemingly for good, at the age of 22. I don't know what more faith the Twins can show than that. As for his ability to play SS, he can barely play a competent 3B so why are we lamenting the fact that he's no longer at SS? Should the Twins have traded away Carlos Correa in 2022 because a prospect was called up (and immediately injured)?

[RpR]

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

When Lewis rejoined the Twins, that was the time the Twins started their successful run, which is still going on, independent of his offense. It's the intangible of positivity that Lewis brings, of which Twins constantly battle with negativity. Also, the chemistry that occurs when the core is complete. The Twins sliding isn't due to Lewis as much as the absence of Correa & Buxton. Correa is back but Buxton & Bader are absent in the OF. IMO, sending Lewis down will hurt the Twins more than help. His bat will come around, it's just a matter of time.

His glove is as bad as his bat.

[Mike Sixel]

43 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I agree with Peter but not for the same reasons—I wish the front office would trade him. Trade him to a team that believes in him instead of keeping him around and handling him like a utility player with a bad attitude. Though I think that last part is mostly a media creation. Secondary and tertiary effects being seen here. Think of the pitching Lewis could have returned. 

Like Rosario and Dozier, I think Lewis has CHAMPION written all over him. Or did at one point. Would have liked to see this play out if they had shown faith in him like these other teams did with their SS  Bobby Witt, Gunnar Henderson, Zack Neto, Volpe who the NYY fans don’t like but is quietly doing well, etc. But we can’t go back, so trade him.

What are you talking about? They play him whenever he's healthy. I literally have no idea what this post is about. 

[stringer bell]

On the previous road trip, it looked like Lewis was on the way to being good again. He was moving better and getting hits including a homer (and almost a second one) in Milwaukee. All of that seems as far away as the 2023 playoffs. 0-24 is a pretty long snag.

What I see is a guy who's unsure that his legs will hold up and when I see him jogging to first base on a double play grounder, I think he should be put back on the IL. If there isn't really an injury, I have to believe the best answer is to send him to the minors.

I haven't seen every game, but in what I have seen Lewis has been pretty good in the field, but he's got to hit in order to be a real contributor to the team. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

When Lewis rejoined the Twins, that was the time the Twins started their successful run, which is still going on, independent of his offense. It's the intangible of positivity that Lewis brings, of which Twins constantly battle with negativity. Also, the chemistry that occurs when the core is complete. The Twins sliding isn't due to Lewis as much as the absence of Correa & Buxton. Correa is back but Buxton & Bader are absent in the OF. IMO, sending Lewis down will hurt the Twins more than help. His bat will come around, it's just a matter of time.

So often I am aligned with with your comments that I am surprised to be a complete opposite with this one. I hate the thumbs down emoji without a reply, so I am replying to you out of respect. I think Lewis is, at this time, a black hole. a fncking mess and he needs to be removed from the 26 man roster. Will continue looking forward to reading your future comments.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I blame Rocco for this attitude. 

Everyone can stop posting, we have a winner!

[NYCTK]

Just now, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Everyone can stop posting, we have a winner!

(just to be clear, this was tongue-in-cheek) 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Just now, NYCTK said:

(just to be clear, this was tongue-in-cheek) 

Which is why you didn't get the counter number for comments blasting Rocco in unrelated arguments...🙂

[Doctor Gast]

39 minutes ago, Verified Member said:

So often I am aligned with with your comments that I am surprised to be a complete opposite with this one. I hate the thumbs down emoji without a reply, so I am replying to you out of respect. I think Lewis is, at this time, a black hole. a fncking mess and he needs to be removed from the 26 man roster. Will continue looking forward to reading your future comments.

Thank you, Verified Member. Being sent down could improve his offense. He was brought up too soon. I understand your point of view, but IMO, Lewis's biggest attributes for the Twins are his intangibles, which IMO supersede his recent poor offense. He is hitting the ball hard. This is my opinion & I respect yours.

[jorgenswest]

In his 37 PAs since May 17 he has an average exit velocity of 94.0, launch angle of 21, hard hit percentage of 52 for an XBA of .278 and  real batting average of .118. His K/BB rates are 14/8.

In the 33 PAs prior to May 17 he had an average exit velocity of 85.3, launch angle of 10, hard hit percentage of 31 for an xBA of .179 and a real batting average of .161. His K/BB rates were 15/6.

In Tampa this week his average exit velocity for his at bats was 100.3 for an xBA of .407. He had no hits.

Progress? 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

What do you even mean by this?

The injuries haven’t helped Lewis and his case, for sure.

His appearances in games have usually been at 3B and DH. But they asked him to play second base, and fans even want to move him to first base.

In other words, a utility infielder. 

So, not to be snarky, but I don’t really know what you mean by “what do you even mean”—it looks to me they are conditioning him to be a utility guy, right? 

I think as of May of 2025, the ideal infield they want is Lewis at 3B and Lee at 2B. But if you zoom out, it becomes clear to me that they don’t know what to do with everyone. 

Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda, Julien, Kirilloff, and now Keaschall, have all been described in this forum as infielders of the future. That’s more guys than there are positions for, even after the trades of Arraez, Polanco, Steer.

If you trade Lewis it’s one less body to worry about. 

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The injuries haven’t helped Lewis and his case, for sure.

His appearances in games have usually been at 3B and DH. But they asked him to play second base, and fans even want to move him to first base.

In other words, a utility infielder. 

So, not to be snarky, but I don’t really know what you mean by “what do you even mean”—it looks to me they are conditioning him to be a utility guy, right? 

I think as of May of 2025, the ideal infield they want is Lewis at 3B and Lee at 2B. But if you zoom out, it becomes clear to me that they don’t know what to do with everyone. 

Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda, Julien, Kirilloff, and now Keaschall, have all been described in this forum as infielders of the future. That’s more guys than there are positions for, even after the trades of Arraez, Polanco, Steer.

If you trade Lewis it’s one less body to worry about. 

I see no evidence they want to make him a utility infielder. They needed a 2B last year and had Miranda up to play 3rd. They considered him as a possibility. 

They've never mentioned it again. Nor have they mentioned 1B. 

I'd prefer him at 1B when Keaschell is healthy, but that's not the same as the Twins doing so.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The injuries haven’t helped Lewis and his case, for sure.

His appearances in games have usually been at 3B and DH. But they asked him to play second base, and fans even want to move him to first base.

In other words, a utility infielder. 

So, not to be snarky, but I don’t really know what you mean by “what do you even mean”—it looks to me they are conditioning him to be a utility guy, right? 

I think as of May of 2025, the ideal infield they want is Lewis at 3B and Lee at 2B. But if you zoom out, it becomes clear to me that they don’t know what to do with everyone. 

Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda, Julien, Kirilloff, and now Keaschall, have all been described in this forum as infielders of the future. That’s more guys than there are positions for, even after the trades of Arraez, Polanco, Steer.

If you trade Lewis it’s one less body to worry about. 

Sorry to butt into your discussion, but are not half of the batting order “utilty infielders/outfielders”? I do not think Lewis has elevated himself to be anything different.

[NYCTK]

14 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

So, not to be snarky, but I don’t really know what you mean by “what do you even mean”—it looks to me they are conditioning him to be a utility guy, right? 

No. 

 

[stringer bell]

42 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The injuries haven’t helped Lewis and his case, for sure.

His appearances in games have usually been at 3B and DH. But they asked him to play second base, and fans even want to move him to first base.

In other words, a utility infielder. 

So, not to be snarky, but I don’t really know what you mean by “what do you even mean”—it looks to me they are conditioning him to be a utility guy, right? 

I think as of May of 2025, the ideal infield they want is Lewis at 3B and Lee at 2B. But if you zoom out, it becomes clear to me that they don’t know what to do with everyone. 

Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda, Julien, Kirilloff, and now Keaschall, have all been described in this forum as infielders of the future. That’s more guys than there are positions for, even after the trades of Arraez, Polanco, Steer.

If you trade Lewis it’s one less body to worry about. 

I have been among those who have thought aloud about Lewis moving to first base, but the thought process was finding a regular position that fit his defensive skills since his bat played anywhere until after the All-Star break of ‘24 (actually about a week before the break). The idea wouldn’t be to move him around, but to find him a place to start 130 games per season.

With so few PAs this year, Lewis could be a victim of rotten luck, but if he can’t run hard maybe he shouldn’t be on the active roster. The batted ball data indicate he’s close to breaking through, so maybe giving him a bit more time is in order, but he’s got to be healthy. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think the bottom line is there is still an injury the team and Royce have decided he's going to play through.

As stated in another thread - I really thought we learned our lesson with Buxton on this.  It's not good for the player or the team.  Get the kid healthy.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I think as of May of 2025, the ideal infield they want is Lewis at 3B and Lee at 2B. But if you zoom out, it becomes clear to me that they don’t know what to do with everyone. 

Correa, Lewis, Lee, Miranda, Julien, Kirilloff, and now Keaschall, have all been described in this forum as infielders of the future. That’s more guys than there are positions for, even after the trades of Arraez, Polanco, Steer.

If you trade Lewis it’s one less body to worry about. 

Alignment of players has much more to do with Keaschall and Lee than Lewis IMHO. Is Lee a core player? If so, is he better suited to second or third? The first question applies to Keaschall and if affirmative, what position fits him?

If all three are deemed core players (I hope so!) moving Lewis off third base could happen because Lee. (probably) is the superior defender of the three and Keaschall might be limited to second base. The point is Royce Lewis is the most known quantity of the players making up the infield around Correa and as recently as ten-eleven months ago was considered the most valuable asset on the team.

I don’t think it’s pie in the sky to consider Lewis as a future All-Star, but there is much more doubt than a year ago. 

[Linus]

Is it as simple as the league has adjusted to him and he has not adjusted back?  He doesn’t have that many mlb at bats. It’s quite a common scenario with young players. 

[Mike Sixel]

22 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I think the bottom line is there is still an injury the team and Royce have decided he's going to play through.

As stated in another thread - I really thought we learned our lesson with Buxton on this.  It's not good for the player or the team.  Get the kid healthy.

Agreed. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

37 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

have been among those who have thought aloud about Lewis moving to first base, but the thought process was finding a regular position that fit his defensive skills

 

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Nor have they mentioned 1B. 

True, I smudged a bit to make my case but all things considered, I see the real possibility there of him being used at whatever infield position they need him (ie, “utility player) even though he isn’t that, not right now.

My opinion is Lewis wants to be “the guy” somewhere. His reticence to playing second being a symptom of something else. Maybe comparable to the Sonny Gray situation, maybe not. 

Players employ agencies to rep them, and MLB teams like the Twins employ several sports psychologists nowadays, so the argument that he needs to “accept it” doesn’t hold as much water as it once did for me. It may be true, but the cost is a talented but unhappy player who isn’t getting right. A team doesn’t want that.

As jorgenswest mentioned, Lewis had some loud contact the last series, so maybe he goes on a tear and the question answers itself.

Bottom line is when you are standing in the box waiting for a pitch, that should be your focus, and the outside distractions shouldn’t be there. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

Is it as simple as the league has adjusted to him and he has not adjusted back?  He doesn’t have that many mlb at bats. It’s quite a common scenario with young players. 

Yep, plus some outsized expectations magnifying the struggles.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

Is it as simple as the league has adjusted to him and he has not adjusted back?  He doesn’t have that many mlb at bats. It’s quite a common scenario with young players. 

And most of them just fade away.

[RpR]

4 hours ago, stringer bell said:

On the previous road trip, it looked like Lewis was on the way to being good again. He was moving better and getting hits including a homer (and almost a second one) in Milwaukee. All of that seems as far away as the 2023 playoffs. 0-24 is a pretty long snag.

What I see is a guy who's unsure that his legs will hold up and when I see him jogging to first base on a double play grounder, I think he should be put back on the IL. If there isn't really an injury, I have to believe the best answer is to send him to the minors.

I haven't seen every game, but in what I have seen Lewis has been pretty good in the field, but he's got to hit in order to be a real contributor to the team. 

His fielding is at the same level as his bat, is now, and always has been.

He is another Julien that people refuse to believe is not their wonder boy.

Send him to AAA for at least a month and see if he can handle that, then review again.