Is There a Light at the End of the Tunnel for Twins Fans?

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Certainly player development has been a weakness. 

But I think thats only a small part of what ails this franchise.

Agreed. There’s been a stench over this organization for several years now. As I posted in Brock’s thread, I will accept a disaster season if it ends up addressing the deep rooted issues here. 

[rv78]

I've been a Twins fan since the seventies. I have never felt more disconnected from a Twins team as I am right now. Attendance numbers lately indicate I am not the only one who has lost interest. The current regime has spouted off how they are the smartest guys in the room, yet since the first season when they took over, 2019, and won 101 games, they have gone in the opposite direction. You can argue that they don't have owners who give them enough money to spend but they are the ones who allocated half of the payroll to 3 players. How smart is that? The current core of players they have either drafted, brought in through Free Agency, or trades. And we see poor baseball being played almost daily with no consequences. This is their team, no excuses, There will only be a light when the current regime is gone and I'm afraid no amount of empty seats at Target Field will matter until the team is sold and everyone from the top executive on down to the lowest coach on the staff is replaced. 

[Eris]

Perhaps the late season 2023 surge was the worst thing that could have happened to this team. It let everyone believe that a team of Kepler, Correa, Lewis, Wallner, Jeffers  and Julien could take the team to next level—rather than for example rebuilding. After a few more months of promising baseball in 2024, the offense totally collapsed.  It is hard to comprehend such offensive ineptitude from players who could at one time hit. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

 

This doesn't seem at all fair. The Twins aren't failing to develop players because Harrison Bader is on the roster. They're failing to develop players because their scouting and/or coaching are bad. It's completely independent of one year veteran contracts. 

Austin Martin wasn't a terrible player last season because Kyle Farmer was on the team. Trevor Larnach isn't a career 100 OPS+ guy because Harrison Bader is rostered. Jose Miranda doesn't have a 100 career OPS+ because Donovan Solano was on the 2023 team.  

Teams hire veterans to fill out rosters, and any team that wants to actually win SHOULD. This isn't some cause for pitchforks to the Twins Front Office, and this is coming from a guy that wants to fire them all. 

Your second sentence is something that I've never said. Your third sentence... You are literally using MY POINT to argue MY POINT.

Your 2nd paragraph isn't worth responding to. You are just spouting unnecessary elementary garbage as a continuation of your 2nd sentence which is already off base. 

Your 3rd Paragraph. Teams hire veterans (some more than others) to fill out rosters because they fail to develop. This is coming from a guy who isn't asking for a mass firing. 

 

 

[NYCTK]

9 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Your second sentence is something that I've never said. Your third sentence... You are literally using MY POINT to argue MY POINT.

Your 2nd paragraph isn't worth responding to. You are just spouting unnecessary elementary garbage as a continuation of your 2nd sentence which is already off base. 

Your 3rd Paragraph. Teams hire veterans (some more than others) to fill out rosters because they fail to develop. This is coming from a guy who isn't asking for a mass firing. 

 

 

I'm glad we agree on sentence #3. But as for hiring veterans, you're just flat out wrong dude. If you truly believe a team should be able to develop all 40 players on the roster, you'll always, and I mean always, be disappointed. 

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I'm glad we agree on sentence #3. But as for hiring veterans, you're just flat out wrong dude. If you truly believe a team should be able to develop all 40 players on the roster, you'll always, and I mean always, be disappointed. 

If you continue to believe that I'm saying develop all 40 players on the roster... you will always be someone nobody wants to converse with. 

And... I really don't. 

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

If you continue to believe that I'm saying develop all 40 players on the roster... you will always be someone nobody wants to converse with. 

And... I really don't. 

You don't want to bring in any veterans...what else am I supposed to take away from that? 

[Aerodeliria]

I like the Tom Kelly approach. Play good defense and run the bases well--do the small things well. He put the best product on the field with what he was given, which sometimes meant a group of pretty poor players took the field, but they played hard and played as well as could be expected given the circumstances. 

[Western SD Fan]

To further the point with @Riverbrian, even many of the most internally developed teams (i.e. Rays) consistently bring in veterans to fill out their roster.  In reviewing who has or had been their current 26-man roster as posted on Baseball-Reference, I count 20 of 33 players that have played games in 2025 for the Rays that have played games for another organization prior to being signed by the Rays.  The list is:  Jansen, Morel, Diaz, Caballero, Rortvedt, DeLuca, Montes, Palacios, Littel, Pepiot, Rasmussen, Fairbanks, Bigge, Clevinger, Uceta, Englert, Rodriguez, Orze, Boyle, and Sulser.  If you want to argue that some of these players only played a few games for another team and then signed (or was traded) to the Rays, fine.  But the point is that over half of their roster has played games for another team at some point in their career and this is supposed to be the team that specializes in developing their own players.  The idea of being able to develop your own 40-man roster is insane.

Let's look at the current situation at 1B.  The Twins sign Ty France, which to be honest, I was not a fan of as even I had wanted them to use in-house options and save the money to spend elsewhere.  As it has turned out, France has been the best option at 1B that we have had this year.  Kirilloff is now retired, Julien has games at 2B and seems to not have decent defense at 1B, Castro is banged up and better served elsewhere, and in the minors, you have Severino who seems to have stalled or Sabato who has been a disaster of a draft pick ever since he was drafted.  As the season has progressed, who would you suggest internally should be playing first other than Ty France

Every team has developmental strengths and weaknesses.  Bringing in Falvey and Levine, we were supposed to shift to pitching oriented development as quality pitching (other than catchers) is the hardest position to develop in the majors.  That focus will leave holes in developing your position players, be it hitting or fielding (as we can clearly see in the current style of play).

If you want to make the suggestion that small and mid-market teams need to develop their own star players, I can agree with you on that point.  I would guess that small and mid-market teams' fans are more in tune with their minor league players as they need to lean on their minors much more than large-market teams. 

 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

The idea of being able to develop your own 40-man roster is insane.

What's insane is to think that anybody thinks that the entire 40 man can be homegrown.

May I add insulting to insane?

I hope everyone understands that I UNDERSTAND that there are multiple ways to build a roster. It's crazy that I have to type that but I truly honestly do understand that rosters can be built via draft/develop, trade, free agency and waivers and all 30 teams use a combination of these sources to build their roster. Each team will have varying percentages of each of the primary 3 sources (Development, Trade and Free Agency).

Now if you want to use the Rays as an example.

Yep... 24 on the 40 man roster were acquired via trade. 12 Twins on the 40 man roster were acquired via trade. Two to one in comparison with the Twins. The Rays are twice as active on the trade front.  

Truly homegrown players drafted and developed: 20 Twins on the 40 man were homegrown. 10 on the Rays. Two to one in comparison with the Rays. The Twins have directly utilized their farm twice as much as the Rays. 

The Twins currently have 9 pre-arb players on the 26 man roster with 2 on the IL.  The Rays currently have 17 Pre-Arb players on the 26 man with 6 on the IL. The Twins have to pay at least 17 players more than the minimum. The Rays have to pay 9. 

The Twins are paying $142 million this season. The Rays are paying $79 million. 

I assume that neither team is happy with their start to 2025.

I see a development problem with the Twins. 

 

 

[LambchoP]

It really looks and feels like the entire team is in total "simulation" mode until a sale happens. When you're SS is making 37 million, the highest paid player on the team by far, but is also arguably the worst hitter on the team......things aren't going right. Need new faces from top down. From ownership to managers to hitting and pitching coaches. A roster shake up will need to happen as well. We've tried for years to get it done with this "core". Sorry to admit it, but it's not going to be good enough.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

I count 20 of 33 players that have played games in 2025 for the Rays that have played games for another organization prior to being signed by the Rays.  The list is:  Jansen, Morel, Diaz, Caballero, Rortvedt, DeLuca, Montes, Palacios, Littel, Pepiot, Rasmussen, Fairbanks, Bigge, Clevinger, Uceta, Englert, Rodriguez, Orze, Boyle, and Sulser.

From this list.

Only Jansen was a true free agent signing. Kim doesn't make your list because he hasn't played yet but you can add Kim to Jansen to make the entire true free agent member total of two for the 2025 Tampa Rays. 

Apart from Jansen - The Following players from your list cost more than 1.5M this year. I choose 1.5 million because that is where a reasonably line of affordability can be drawn.  

Yandy Diaz - Acquired from Cleveland in a 3 team trade. Yandy was 27 at the time. He had a total of 299 MLB AB's at the time of the trade. It cost Tampa Pre-Arb player Jake Bauers. Jake was 22 at the time and he was acquired from the Padres as part of the Wil Myers deal. Wil Myers at the time was a pre-arb player who was one of the top prospects in baseball. 

Drew Rasmussen - Was acquired from the Brewers... there were other pieces involved but WIlly Adames was the main piece in the trade going to Milwaukee. At the time of the Deal Rasmussen was 25 years old, pre-arb with 27 appearences out of the bullpen over two years. Tampa immediately converted him to a starter and he did quite well right away. Willy Adames was in his last year pre-arb... his pay was going up the next year. 4 million paid by the Brewers.    

Pete Fairbanks - Acquired from the Rangers. At the time of the trade... Pete had a total of 8 innings of major league work with the Rangers. He was trade for Nick Solak who was a minor league prospect. 

Zach Littell was a waiver claim at age 27 after he was released by Boston. Boston had him briefly after acquiring from the Giants for Cash. (not Kevin Cash). Zach pitched will enough to be offered arbitration the following year for 1.8 million and they avoided Arbitration this year signing at 5.7 million

 

Continuing on: 

Uceta was waived by the Dodgers, D-Backs, Tigers, Mets and Cubs before the Rays signed him to a minor league free agent deal at age 23. 

Morel was acquired from the Cubs... Cost the Rays Isaac Paredes. Morel was pre-arb, Paredes was making 3.4 million in his first year of Arb. Paredes was pre-arb when originally acquired from the Tigers for Austin Meadows. Austin Meadows was making 4 million in his first year of Arb at the time. 

Misner was a prospect acquired from the Marlins. Cost the Rays Joey Wendle at the time. Wendle was going into his first year of arbitration. 

Mangum should be on your list. He was also acquired from the Marlins. It was a multi player deal. Brujan and Faucher were the players that the Marlins received in the deal.  All players involved in this deal make the minimum or are in the minor leagues. 

Cabellero was acquired from the Mariners. Cost the Rays Luke Raley. Both Players were pre-arb. Luke Raley was acquired from the Dodgers for a minor leaguer named Tanner Dobson. 

Deluca and Pepiot were acquired from the Dodgers. Cost the Rays Tyler Glasnow. Both Deluca and Pepiot were pre-arb players. Glasnow was making 15 million a year through arbitration and was about to hit free agency. The Dodgers agreed to absorb Manual Margot's contract in the deal and the Rays agreed to send 4 million in cash to play for another team and help the Dodgers absorb Margot's contract. Of Course... the Dodgers then traded Margot to the Twins were they were willing to send 4 million in cash to play for someone else and after two teams were paying 4 million to play for someone else... it was the Twins paying 4 million to actually play for them. Now it was the Rays who offered Margot a two year 19m deal which was a mistake so all teams make them.  

I can keep going but the point of all of this is too point out that the Rays have been much more resourceful with their young talent, developing and acquiring young talent that the Twins have. Yes they have acquired a lot of talent via trade but they moved players when they got expensive and kept the young pre-arb train rolling and they have won a lot of games in the process. 

I'm not saying that the Twins should be exactly like the Rays but when you dive deep into it. The Rays have been much better than the Twins have in terms of development and more resourceful with it. 

 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, LambchoP said:

It really looks and feels like the entire team is in total "simulation" mode until a sale happens. When you're SS is making 37 million, the highest paid player on the team by far, but is also arguably the worst hitter on the team......things aren't going right. Need new faces from top down. From ownership to managers to hitting and pitching coaches. A roster shake up will need to happen as well. We've tried for years to get it done with this "core". Sorry to admit it, but it's not going to be good enough.

Yeah. It's a complete lost year because they organization is basically without leadership. The only reason Rocco and the entire Front Office wasn't fired after last season is because they figured they'd just allow new ownership to come in and put their people in place. But now that the sale is delayed, and no longer imminent, this organization is basically circling the drain.

Until the team is sold there's no reason for any sort of optimism in Twins Territory. Attendance will be it's lowest since the Bill Clinton administration, and rightfully so. 

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

As the season has progressed, who would you suggest internally should be playing first other than Ty France

I don't have as big a problem with the signing of France as other here seem to have. 

That's strictly because he is basically costing the minimum and France deserves the right to fight for a MLB job just like pre-arb players or minor leaguers do. 

However... the question from you that I have quoted is the wrong question to ask. The question is why do the Twins need to sign Ty France to nearly a minimum contract and then have to turn him into an everyday player. Nobody else was willing to offer him over 1 million and this is an everyday player for us. Seemingly vital to the overall healthy of our club for all of the reasons that you list.   

Is this need to sign Ty France a development issue? It's not the player that bugs me... it's the need for the player. Ty will probably have to play nearly every day... just like Pete Alonso will play nearly every day.  

France might do a great job, average job or he may what he has been for the past two years. Regardless... he won't be back in 2026. The need to sign a player that nobody else is willing to invest in and need him to play every day is the problem and that is a development issue in mind. It's not like the Twins haven't looked for big bopper types in the draft.     

[Major League Ready]

There is a light.  The question is if the light gets turned on.  Lewis back fairly soon.  He may or may not be a light.  Wallner will be back and he should be a light.  Should we expect Correa to play like he has over his career or the anemic hitter he has been to start the year.   He should provide some light.  How about Luke Keaschall.  That due looks like a flood light so far. I guess what I am saying is we should not throw in the towel just yet.

[Riverbrian]

23 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

Bringing in Falvey and Levine, we were supposed to shift to pitching oriented development as quality pitching (other than catchers) is the hardest position to develop in the majors.  That focus will leave holes in developing your position players, be it hitting or fielding (as we can clearly see in the current style of play).

I am generally satisfied with the development on the pitching side. We have seemingly developed our way past the need to fill roster space with Bundy types. This is a positive and I give our front office full credit. 

However, I disagree that our focus on pitching development means that holes will be left on offensive side of development. All 30 teams need to develop every player in the organization. 

[Riverbrian]

23 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

If you want to make the suggestion that small and mid-market teams need to develop their own star players, I can agree with you on that point.  I would guess that small and mid-market teams' fans are more in tune with their minor league players as they need to lean on their minors much more than large-market teams. 

Yes... This is my suggestion... This is my primary suggestion... All the words I type belong in the category of this suggestion. 

Develop or Die. We all know that the Twins can't afford to sign players developed by OTHER organizations. We have to develop our own. There is a bill to pay for not developing your own and we are paying that bill year after year. Despite 20 players on the current 40 man roster coming from our system. We are currently sitting near the bottom of the league of pre-arb players on the 26 man roster. This is paying a little bit extra for every player who is not pre-arb which takes away money that could be added together to get a bigger free agent. We are about 6 pre-arb players short on this roster compared to other teams that are winning baseball games with pre-arb players on the 26 man roster. 

Development doesn't mean the next Juan Soto although the next Juan Soto would be nice since we haven't developed a top end player like that in quite some time. That in itself is a development issue. 

Development also means the next Ben Rice who will be back with the Yankees next year or traded with his increased value for someone else... The Development of a Ben Rice type is important so you don't have to turn Ty France into an every day player and he won't be back next year.     

[DocBauer]

While I've been rather down on the team lately, I'm a lifer. And it's been very depressing start to the season no doubt. I'm not in full despair mode just yet because whilentheyve played some bad ball and let too many games slip away to loses they should have won, and the construction of the team isn't great, I still think this team has much better ball POTENTIAL in them. Whether or not they can get right soon enough to make a run is a question that's getting more serious as time/games march on.

I love Wallner. I love what a healthy Lewis does despite his bad ending last season. I love watching a healthy Buxton and how he can change games. I still have belief in Larnach, though I don't think he's ever going to be special. I don't know that Lee is going to be a stud, but I think the bat WILL come around and he's going to be a really solid/good ballplayer. And there is just NO WAY that a 30yo Carlos Correa is this bad!

I like the rotation still, and it will be even better in the future with Festa and Matthews. And despite some bad games, I like the basic construction of the pen.

Yes, I'm still a bit of an optimist. That's my nature, despite occasional grouchy almost 60yo syndrome, LOL.

I'm also really excited about Rodriguez, Keaschall and eventually Jenkins adding to the roster/offense. I think there's a handful of really nice looking INF that might only be a couple of years away, and a few arms that will transition to the pen to make it even deeper and stronger. Some of them aren't that far away.

Again, I just think thr team, even as currently constructed, is much better than what we've seen so far. 

But without going too deep in to the comments already made by @riverbrian, hes absolutely correct that development internally is key to the Twins future. Whether coaching mistakes, injuries, or some poor luck, the position player side of recent prospect development has been lacking, or at least slow in success. Now, I think we all know and understand that not every prospect turns out, much less reach their ceiling. That's just reality, and the nature of the beast that is MLB. 

But one gripe I have with how the FO builds the team is lack of opportunity at times for said prospects. I think back to 2023 when I say this, so a recent example. That team didn't play poorly necessarily, but they underperformed and were streaky through the 1st half. But Lewis and Wallner and Julien IGNITED that team and the offense took off and matched the pitching to have a nice 2nd half and have some success in the playoffs for the first time in years.

Come 2024, Julien was a mess. He's starting to adapt and look more like his previous self these days. Should they have stuck with Wallner longer last season? Maybe so. Lee was probably brought up this year a few games earlier than they would have liked due to necessity. But he should be playing daily and just enjoy his defense and let the bat find it's way. He has nothing left to prove at AAA. Keaschall simply won't continue at his current SSSS clip, but he's very talented and I don't know that he should be sent down at any point.

I keep looking at other mid market teams like Cleveland and Milwaukee and I see teams that are willing to stick with top prospects and let them "fail" initially but give them a long rope to "figure it out". With all due respect to Bader and solid contributions so far...and I'm NOT saying he was a bad signing...Keirsey has shown that he is indeed a good defensive OF. He's flashed some speed, which this team last lacked for a while. He's not hitting so far, but he also hasn't had any sort of run in regard to normal plate appearances to even know if he CAN hit at all at the ML level. But other teams would given him a longer run in 2024 to see if he might be a late blooming, solid 4th OF. But not the Twins. They stuck status quo with a very disappointing Margot instead.

I am not saying you don't sign FA to augment your roster, occasionally the BIG FA to add to your team. (Riverbrian is also not saying you don't sign FA). You build your roster many ways, including FA and trades. That's how we got Cruz a few years ago, and how we got Ryan. But your draft and IL signings and development is your lifeblood whether those players "make it" or are part of trades to acquire talent. (Arraez for Lopez as an example). But OPPORTUNITY for said prospects is so very important in the development of your system, and the ML club.

I understand he's out of commission right now due to a knee/cartilage surgery, but you don't ignore an Eeles simply because he flew under the radar. I have no clue if McCusker at 27yo will be able to succeed at the ML level. But you signed him for a reason. He's advanced and improved at every level. I doubt he hits anything close to his current. 299 clip, with a good OB%. But what IF he could maintain his improvements and still have a BB% of around 10% and maintain a 30% K rate at the ML level? That, combined with his tremendous power might make him a good DH and part time OF. Or he could just fizzle out. (Which is honestly more likely).

It's somewhat surprising to me that our current FO has built up a pretty damn good pitching staff and the proverbial "pipeline" ...a term I really don't like...but they seem reluctant at times to trust in their position players.

Miranda is a mess right now. Is that the coaching or on him? Julien is at least starting to figure it out. When Rodriguez gets over missing most of ST and starts to GET RIGHT, do they find room for him? Other clubs do.

I'm just offering up examples of TODAY vs TOMORROW.  I sometimes think the FO is more worried about TODAY vs what you might have TOMORROW. 

 

[NYCTK]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

But other teams would given him a longer run in 2024 to see if he might be a late blooming, solid 4th OF. But not the Twins. They stuck status quo with a very disappointing Margot instead.

This is absolutely true. And another reason why Rocco and Falvey should be fired. 

But anyone that criticized adding Bader because Keirsey could fill that role was begging for 100 losses. Which, turns out, they might achieve anyways. 

[Major League Ready]

21 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I am generally satisfied with the development on the pitching side. We have seemingly developed our way past the need to fill roster space with Bundy types. This is a positive and I give our front office full credit. 

However, I disagree that our focus on pitching development means that holes will be left on offensive side of development. All 30 teams need to develop every player in the organization. 

Maybe they need an "offensive coordinator" or two.  One person with the sole focus of overseeing the scouting and drafting of position players and another person whose sole focus is development of position players.  Obviously, they have people in similar positions.  I am just throwing out a semi-serious idea because I agree they need to do something different on the position player side.   

[Riverbrian]

16 hours ago, DocBauer said:

They stuck status quo with a very disappointing Margot instead.

Sticking with a failing vet on a one year contract that won't be back next year is opportunity lost for someone else. It might a little bit of opportunity or it might be quite a bit of opportunity but it is opportunity that provides information for roster decisions in 2026.  

It's easy for all of us to sit back and say there was no one in the farm anyway. Well... if there is no one. That's a development problem because as you correctly point out... other teams (based on pre-arb roster numbers) seem to have someone and always keep in mind that someone doesn't have to hit like a superstar to be someone. All they have to do is perform as poorly as Margot performed at the bare minimum.  

I don't know what Keirsay will become... it doesn't matter. I don't know what anyone will become but I am saying... opportunity needs to be provided for someone... anyone else and if they don't have anyone else... that's a development problem.

Margot's protected place on the roster not only kept someone else from getting opportunity... a little or lot of opportunity which will provide information on weather they need to replace Margot with another Margot the following season and Margot's protected place on the roster also compromised the development of our young left handers by keeping our young developing left handers from hitting left handers. Which of course... is a development problem that already existed because we failed to develop left handers that could hit left handers or created a development problem by choosing to strip mine the young players for parts. 

And we paid 4 million for Margot to sit like a cork in the middle of development. 

Why do other teams have twice as many pre-arb players on the roster? The answer is either: Margot types being necessary because of an existing development problem or Margot types are part of the reason that we have a development problem.  

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Maybe they need an "offensive coordinator" or two.  One person with the sole focus of overseeing the scouting and drafting of position players and another person whose sole focus is development of position players.  Obviously, they have people in similar positions.  I am just throwing out a semi-serious idea because I agree they need to do something different on the position player side.   

Makes perfect sense to me. Apart from winning... the most important job that a front office has is to increase the value of the players on the roster. Increased value increases trade value and of course production toward the bottom line of winning. 

My opinion isn't worth much and rightfully so because I've never seen the inside of a baseball front office but I've often wondered in my head. Could a team actually consider taking money away from the player pool and reallocating those dollars toward scouting, coaching and therefore development. For example... could they double what the best scouts and coaches are being paid to ensure that they get the best at those positions.

In theory... If doubling the salary of scouts and coaches costs let say an extra 10 million. Those best scouts and coaches could produce multiple young players with MLB talent for the price of one overpaid low level vet. 

I don't know much about the operation but ideas like yours and mine may be good out of the box thinking to try.   

[Linus]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Makes perfect sense to me. Apart from winning... the most important job that a front office has to increase the value of the players on the roster. Increased value increases trade value and of course production toward the bottom line of winning. 

My opinion isn't worth much and rightfully so because I've never seen the inside of a baseball front office but I've often wondered in my head. Could a team actually consider taking money away from the player pool and reallocating those dollars toward scouting, coaching and therefore development. For example... could they double what the best scouts and coaches are being paid to ensure that they get the best at those positions.

In theory... If doubling the salary of scouts and coaches costs let say an extra 10 million. Those best scouts and coaches could produce multiple young players with MLB talent for the price of one overpaid low level vet. 

I don't know much about the operation but ideas like yours and mine may be good out of the box thinking to try.   

I think teams are doing that already. I recently read a quote from a FO type that said as much. I apologize as I can’t remember who it was or which team. 
I think your comments on development strike to the heart of the matter. For me there is too much attention to prospect and farm system rankings. It’s almost as if that is the game itself. The real question is how many quality big league players has your system produced?  IMO on the lineup side the Twins track record under Falvey is underwhelming. It’s the biggest reason I want a change in the FO. I don’t know if it’s drafting or development - ultimately it doesn’t matter as it’s clear the results aren’t there. 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Linus said:

For me there is too much attention to prospect and farm system rankings. It’s almost as if that is the game itself. The real question is how many quality big league players has your system produced?

The highly ranked prospect will get chance after chance until they are proven to be what the organization thinks they will become or proven to be a bust. The lesser ranked prospect will get one shot... if they get that shot and I'll contend that in a lot of cases... the margins are pretty slim between those two groups of prospects. 

Yet every year... A Tyler (Who is this Guy) Fitzgerald shows up and takes advantage of that one shot.

So another question is: How many potential Tyler Fitzgeralds are out there that we don't know about. I don't know the answer to that... but I do know that Manual Margot kept his job for the entire year for some reason. 

You are absolutely right. The real question is how many quality big league players has your system produced. Quality doesn't mean Juan Soto type uber prospect... quality can also mean... simply better than the low value one year vet plugging up the system. 

The Twins have 20 players on the roster right now that came out of the system. That's a high number. We currently have 9 pre-arb players on the 26 man roster. That's a low number. We are still signing low dollar free agents to cover for the low number of pre-arb players on our current roster. Our pre-arb players have graduated to arbitration eligible and we are not filling in the back end. 

We've had a highly ranked farm system year over year... That doesn't mean a damn thing to me right now. Our current 26 man roster isn't reflective of such lofty status. If the rankings were accurate we have failed. If we haven't failed... the rankings were not accurate.  

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Makes perfect sense to me. Apart from winning... the most important job that a front office has is to increase the value of the players on the roster. Increased value increases trade value and of course production toward the bottom line of winning. 

My opinion isn't worth much and rightfully so because I've never seen the inside of a baseball front office but I've often wondered in my head. Could a team actually consider taking money away from the player pool and reallocating those dollars toward scouting, coaching and therefore development. For example... could they double what the best scouts and coaches are being paid to ensure that they get the best at those positions.

In theory... If doubling the salary of scouts and coaches costs let say an extra 10 million. Those best scouts and coaches could produce multiple young players with MLB talent for the price of one overpaid low level vet. 

I don't know much about the operation but ideas like yours and mine may be good out of the box thinking to try.   

Could not agree more on aggressively recruiting top scouting/development help.  Pay them to come and pay them to stay.  I would imagine evaluating scouts is rather difficult but I agree with the sentiment that this investment likely has a greater rate of return than free agent spending.  However, it would appear most MLB teams already believe this to be true based on the increase in personnel over the past decade.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Could not agree more on aggressively recruiting top scouting/development help.  Pay them to come and pay them to stay.  I would imagine evaluating scouts is rather difficult but I agree with the sentiment that this investment likely has a greater rate of return than free agent spending.  However, it would appear most MLB teams already believe this to be true based on the increase in personnel over the past decade.

That's true... it wasn't long ago that we had an analytics department of 1 analyst. 

Increasing pay? In my head it sounds great but I wonder if a team actually jumped in that direction,,, I'd assume that the other 29 owners would show concern about the change in pay scale. They would have to respond to stay competitive and now you have raises across the board that in the end not only increased pay for the best but increased pay for the bottom end of the pool. 

Just things that bounce around my head as I continue to hope for an organization completely focused on development like their future depends on it. 

[The Great Hambino]

I see a light at the end of the tunnel

Unfortunately, I also hear the whistle of a train

I have a bad feeling that at least one of the top three starters will be gone before the end of the season.  Then it's on to rebuild mode

[RpR]

13 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

I see a light at the end of the tunnel

Unfortunately, I also hear the whistle of a train

I have a bad feeling that at least one of the top three starters will be gone before the end of the season.  Then it's on to rebuild mode

Not happening, nothing to rebuild with.

Front office cannot afford to lose what few fans in the stands they have.

[Major League Ready]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

That's true... it wasn't long ago that we had an analytics department of 1 analyst. 

Increasing pay? In my head it sounds great but I wonder if a team actually jumped in that direction,,, I'd assume that the other 29 owners would show concern about the change in pay scale. They would have to respond to stay competitive and now you have raises across the board that in the end not only increased pay for the best but increased pay for the bottom end of the pool. 

Just things that bounce around my head as I continue to hope for an organization completely focused on development like their future depends on it. 

I suspect the teams with the most revenue already use their financial advantage to attract and retain the people that standout in these positions.  The Dodgers have done a great job while always picking late.

[Mrs. Baseball]

Agree with the level of angst. But what's the answer? Keep on tweaking, a truck load of TNT or something in between. Extremely painful watching them attempt to push runs across the plate. Reminds one of a constipated elephant.  Yet my view from the nickel seats is that many of the pieces are there to be quite successful and despite the handful of gut punches the pitching looks solid across the board. And Keaschall could be their '91 Knoblauch. My frustration grows simply typing this.

Go Twins!