All About the Ishbias: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly with the Twins' Potential New Owners

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

I'm a firm believer in ethics and integrity no matter whether rich or poor. So that is a concern. But also innocent until proven guilty.

Carl Pohlad started his empire by foreclosing on farms during the great depression.  You need to look for another team to root for.  Good luck finding one with ethics and integrity....

[Jocko87]

Breaking news. If you are in business you will be sued at some point.

Listen to some interviews with the man himself. His main criteria in buying a business is a good management group that needs resources to level up. Sound familiar? I'm in.

https://www.spiveyconsulting.com/blog-post/justin-ishbia-interview/?ref=spiveyconsulting.ghost.io

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

...But in all fairness to the Falvey regime they are not pure dumpster divers like Ryan was after he took over for Bill Smith...

I saw very little different between Smith/Ryan2 regimes and Falvey except Falvey's front office was much worse at drafting/development, at least for the first few years.

[bean5302]

8 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Carl Pohlad started his empire by foreclosing on farms during the great depression.  You need to look for another team to root for.  Good luck finding one with ethics and integrity....

You've been corrected I don't know how many times on this.

Pohlad milked cows on a farm, and then did odd jobs for a bank. He was promoted to driving the car for the manager who delivered foreclosure letters, and then sometimes delivered the foreclosure letters directly as part of his job during the Great-Depression. Pohald's mom made money to help put food on the table by washing the neighbors' clothes for them because they were dirt poor and having problems putting food on the table. Pohlad was in high school at the time. 

Like any billionaire, you're going to find plenty of questionable business practices in their history. All of them.

[Schmoeman5]

I heard from a guy that knew a guy who heard from another guy that they don't like puppies.

[Drew]

In 1998 or 99 I was driving a 1968 Ford Falcon up one of those circular parking ramps in downtown Minneapolis at 5:45 in the morning. I was 22 and broke so I took a job managing a coffee shop and they paid for a parking spot. That morning, like every morning, I walked past my roommates in our rotten house on Knox Ave neighboring Cal Surf, while they smoked weed and played NFL Blitz. The difference this morning was that as I crested the ramp approaching the 4th floor my car died. I ran out of gas. I wasn't close enough to flat ground to push this beast of a car. So I had to back a car down that circular ramp, 4 floors, with no power steering. All this for 7.50 an hour. I don't really have a point other than I wish my dad would've been a billionaire so I could be a billionaire and own a team or two. I bet Mat Ishbia has never even parked in one of those parking ramps. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

You've been corrected I don't know how many times on this.

Pohlad milked cows on a farm, and then did odd jobs for a bank. He was promoted to driving the car for the manager who delivered foreclosure letters, and then sometimes delivered the foreclosure letters directly as part of his job during the Great-Depression. Pohald's mom made money to help put food on the table by washing the neighbors' clothes for them because they were dirt poor and having problems putting food on the table. Pohlad was in high school at the time. 

Like any billionaire, you're going to find plenty of questionable business practices in their history. All of them.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/pohlad-working-poor-son-of-great-depression-to-one-of-u-s-s-wealthiest-dealmakers

...Pohlad left Gonzaga after his second football season and returned to Iowa to work at Federal Discount Corp., a finance company headed by Russell Stotesbery, who had married Helen, one of Pohlad's sisters. Pohlad earned a reputation as an emotionless guy who could efficiently collect loans. His sons said his life was shaped by hardscrabble lessons of the Great Depression....

https://www.minnesotamonthly.com/lifestyle/empire-of-the-sons/

... He boxed as a prizefighter, though he did so under an alias so he could keep his pugilistic persona distinct from his business pursuits. He worked as the muscle on bank collections during the Great Depression...

https://ripbaseball.com/2019/04/09/grave-story-carl-pohlad/

...As he grew up, he worked for a banker, collecting delinquent loans or selling items that the bank collected as payment or repossessions....


Keep correcting me.  He did what you said, and he also did what I said.  What he learned from his collection days he parlayed into a future in finance.

 

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I heard from a guy that knew a guy who heard from another guy that they don't like puppies.

I’ve also heard from a friend of a friend’s ex girlfriend that went on a date with both of the brothers… They went to a steakhouse and ordered it well done. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

In 1998 or 99 I was driving a 1968 Ford Falcon up one of those circular parking ramps in downtown Minneapolis at 5:45 in the morning. I was 22 and broke so I took a job managing a coffee shop and they paid for a parking spot. That morning, like every morning, I walked past my roommates in our rotten house on Knox Ave neighboring Cal Surf, while they smoked weed and played NFL Blitz. The difference this morning was that as I crested the ramp approaching the 4th floor my car died. I ran out of gas. I wasn't close enough to flat ground to push this beast of a car. So I had to back a car down that circular ramp, 4 floors, with no power steering. All this for 7.50 an hour. I don't really have a point other than I wish my dad would've been a billionaire so I could be a billionaire and own a team or two. I bet Mat Ishbia has never even parked in one of those parking ramps. 

A '68 Falcon, that'd be worth a few bucks. Now.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/pohlad-working-poor-son-of-great-depression-to-one-of-u-s-s-wealthiest-dealmakers

...Pohlad left Gonzaga after his second football season and returned to Iowa to work at Federal Discount Corp., a finance company headed by Russell Stotesbery, who had married Helen, one of Pohlad's sisters. Pohlad earned a reputation as an emotionless guy who could efficiently collect loans. His sons said his life was shaped by hardscrabble lessons of the Great Depression....

https://www.minnesotamonthly.com/lifestyle/empire-of-the-sons/

... He boxed as a prizefighter, though he did so under an alias so he could keep his pugilistic persona distinct from his business pursuits. He worked as the muscle on bank collections during the Great Depression...

https://ripbaseball.com/2019/04/09/grave-story-carl-pohlad/

...As he grew up, he worked for a banker, collecting delinquent loans or selling items that the bank collected as payment or repossessions....


Keep correcting me.  He did what you said, and he also did what I said.  What he learned from his collection days he parlayed into a future in finance.

 

Carl Pohlad was born in 1915. He moved to California after graduating in 1933 when he was 18. He wasn't in any position of authority at the bank. He was an odd jobs guy who got his start milking cows and driving the bank manager around...

He boxed for extra money while going to school at Gonzaga in Spokane, Washington. He was on the football team at Gonzaga which might require hiding his name in an occasional "prize fight" not for a used car salesman being scared for his business reputation, LOL.

[LanceJS]

8 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

  Consider this:  It was the Pohlad family that nearly had the Twins contracted.  And this happened after the Twins had won 2 World Series Championships in a 5 year period.

 

Let’s not forget who REALLY wanted the Twins contracted - Bud Selig. Offering the Pohlads $250M in 2001 dollars to do so as well. Selig wanted the team gone so the Brewers would corner Minnesota fans as well. And to think he’s in the Hall of Fame…

[Rod Carews Birthday]

5 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/pohlad-working-poor-son-of-great-depression-to-one-of-u-s-s-wealthiest-dealmakers

...Pohlad left Gonzaga after his second football season and returned to Iowa to work at Federal Discount Corp., a finance company headed by Russell Stotesbery, who had married Helen, one of Pohlad's sisters. Pohlad earned a reputation as an emotionless guy who could efficiently collect loans. His sons said his life was shaped by hardscrabble lessons of the Great Depression....

https://www.minnesotamonthly.com/lifestyle/empire-of-the-sons/

... He boxed as a prizefighter, though he did so under an alias so he could keep his pugilistic persona distinct from his business pursuits. He worked as the muscle on bank collections during the Great Depression...

https://ripbaseball.com/2019/04/09/grave-story-carl-pohlad/

...As he grew up, he worked for a banker, collecting delinquent loans or selling items that the bank collected as payment or repossessions....


Keep correcting me.  He did what you said, and he also did what I said.  What he learned from his collection days he parlayed into a future in finance.

 

He graduated from H.S. in 1934.  That makes his dropping out after two football seasons, spring 1937.  He took a low level job delivering bank collections.  He was in his very early twenties and not making any real decisions for any lender I'm certain.  He's delivering at that point, not foreclosing.  By 1940 the great depression was effectively over.  He was drafted and went off to war in 1943. 

It seems unlikely that he got rich before he came back from the war.  AND, after the war there weren't many farms to foreclose on as the 1940's and 1950's were some of the very best times to be a farmer.   It was also very profitable to be in just about any business, including banking.

He was a banker.  Yes.  Was he more than a bike messenger?  By 1950, certainly, but probably not much before then.  Did he likely foreclose on some farms?  Sure.  He was a banker.  Foreclosed on cars too I bet.  But I think the statement is a little melodramatic.   The depression story makes for good story telling, but the years don't really add up. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

And in regard to the previous post, I don't particularly like the guy, so I'm no apologist. 

[David HK]

I'm addicted to podcasts.  One of my current faves is "Owned," by former NBA-er Rex Chapman, wherein he tells stories of those very billionaires who own various sports teams, for better or worse.  He did one on Matt Ishbia, which was downright inspiring.  If you want to know more about his backstory, from a MSU basketball walk-on under Tom Izzo, to owning the Suns and beyond, give a listen.  If nothing else, it's highly entertaining, and you can hear from the man himself.  Sorry about the long URL- but if you're a podcast listener, it's easy to look up "Owned."

https://chrt.fm/track/288D49/stitcher.simplecastaudio.com/c3239830-c047-4fe7-9672-a3d0d5d083c8/episodes/c809b49a-7f68-4cd8-bbe1-b6643a9d2ba6/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=c3239830-c047-4fe7-9672-a3d0d5d083c8&awEpisodeId=c809b49a-7f68-4cd8-bbe1-b6643a9d2ba6&feed=iXhf4wYJ 

[Twinkies are for eating]

Buh bye Pohlads. Thanks for absolutely nothing. And don’t let the door hit your cheap asses on the way out!!!

[Blyleven2011]

All I can say is,  yes we need new owners that want to win more than just the regular season  division  ...

That is how the pohlads operated  , construct a team to be competitive and put fans in the stands for the season , they never constructed  a team to be playoff contenders , never filling the necessary holes to put them over the top ...

I can't speculate on what the new owners will do  , but I wouldn't want to go through owners like Calvin  or pohlad and sons again  ...

 

[arby58]

20 hours ago, mnfireman said:

As long as they don't approach Jerry Jones, Al Davis or George Steinbrenner level of hands-on all should be good....

While I agree in spirit, I would also note that all three won the Super Bowl or World Series during their reign.

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

While I agree in spirit, I would also note that all three won the Super Bowl or World Series during their reign.

All three have something common: the more they messed around with the team the worse things got.

Jerry Jones won with Jimmy Johnson's players, fired him because Jimmy got all the credit and once those players were gone hasn't won since. How have the last 30 years gone for the Cowboys? Their owner plays GM and does it badly.

Al Davis did great in the early Raider years and was very influential. And then he wouldn't let go even as the game passed him by and how did that go for the Raiders? Ceded some power to Gruden who rebuilt the team...and then couldn't tolerate someone else calling the shots; once Gruden and his team were gone the Raiders have been one of the worst franchises in the NFL. 

Steinbrenner won a lot with the Yankees, but arguably his teams won in spite of him rather than because of him. The more he meddled, the worse they got. (the constant hiring/firing of Billy Martin? ugh) His best run was after he had been suspended and when he let others run the team and he stepped back in 90's.

 

[Vanimal46]

An ownership group that understands value in goodwill for fans. What a crazy concept 

[Guest]

I just love these articles.  Give us, pretty please, owners with bottomless pockets of money that will spend freely on a whim and not care enough to bother management about how it's spent.  In short, lots and lots of free money for sports fans.

[Jocko87]

As I have been saying…this is the way. 

[Unwinder]

I'd be reasonably optimistic about these guys buying the team. Making games available over the air and prioritizing letting people actually see the games is an extremely important move in my opinion. I think that in order to bring in new fans and compete with other options, watching baseball needs to be not just affordable, it needs to be easy. It needs to take as little effort as possible.

I think these guys get way too much credit as big spenders for getting Kevin Durant. In a salary cap league that's not at all equivalent to signing somebody like Juan Soto. KD makes about the same amount as Karl-Anthony Towns. They made an aggressive trade for a player who wanted to be traded, and they sold the farm for him. That speaks to their ability to woo top-end talent, and maybe to their willingness to trade top prospects to win now, but it doesn't really reveal anything about their willingness to spend in a league where free agency is a pure bidding war. I'd say I trust them to push in their chips at the trade deadline instead of standing pat, but I have no idea what to expect for payroll overall.

[bean5302]

26 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

An ownership group that understands value in goodwill for fans. What a crazy concept 

 

2 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

As I have been saying…this is the way. 

You mean like $1 hot dogs, and $5 cans of beer the Twins had last year? Or being able to bring in free food and water? Unlike the Twins, the Suns don't allow outside food, but you can bring in 1 bottle of sealed water (like the Twins allow).

The price list there is what you call "loss leaders" in marketing and business terms. Levy Restaurants & Concessions runs the concessions for the Suns, and I the Suns probably lose money on each of those items after the cost of items and Levy's fees/cuts. The idea is to generate upsells and interest in the team. Increasing the prestige and interest in attending the Suns games is step 1 for the Ishbia's. Once season ticket holder packages are filled and there's a waiting list, prices will start increasing. The Suns were one of the most pathetically attended games in the NBA for a couple years (full seasons not impacted by COVID) prior to the Ishbia's purchasing them.

The Ishbia's understand marketing and revenue generation. If they buy the Twins, I suspect the focus will be on public engagement and making the Twins a prestigious event to attend. They'll keep prices low, get those season tickets sold out, then prices will skyrocket, game day revenues and profits will soar and the team's value will increase.

They're not doing this for the poor, downtrodden masses. They are not your friends. They're business owners looking for a return on investment.

[Unwinder]

I'm not worried about them moving the team out of Minnesota. If they had someplace they wanted to move a team, it would be much more straightforward to buy the White Sox.

[arby58]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

All three have something common: the more they messed around with the team the worse things got.

They did win. Jones has three Super Bowl titles, and even lacking recent success, he is 16-15 in the play-offs. For all the Vikings love directed at Zigi Wilf (and I do like him), the Vikings play-off record since he has owned the team is 4-8 with no Super Bowl appearances. Davis also won a Super Bowl - not so much for the Vikings. So yeah, I'll trade some ownership meddling for a Super Bowl for the Vikings or a World Series title for the Twins.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

31 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

They're not doing this for the poor, downtrodden masses. They are not your friends. They're business owners looking for a return on investment.

No they're not.  It's very smart business -- assuming the market cooperates.  That being said, it is still a fantastic deal for people who are looking for reasonable concessions, especially families.  They can focus all they want on making a buck by growing the brand, but if along the way there are more and better deals for regular consumers, more power to them!

The more I ponder this potential ownership group, the more I think this would be somewhere near a dream scenario for the Twins and for fans.  But, as always, I could be wrong. 

[Vanimal46]

36 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

The Ishbia's understand marketing and revenue generation. If they buy the Twins, I suspect the focus will be on public engagement and making the Twins a prestigious event to attend. They'll keep prices low, get those season tickets sold out, then prices will skyrocket, game day revenues and profits will soar and the team's value will increase.

That’s all a good thing. The Pohlads and particularly Dave St Peter are awful at marketing and revenue generation. The Twins have a big problem getting butts in seats at Target Field. Take the short term loss to build up the brand again. 

[bean5302]

Agreed, they're potentially great owners, just that people shouldn't expect them to be champions of the masses. The community benefactor owners have existed in the past, like Walter A. Haas, Jr. was for the Athletics in the 80s and 90s, but I'm not sure they exist now?

[jmlease1]

46 minutes ago, arby58 said:

They did win. Jones has three Super Bowl titles, and even lacking recent success, he is 16-15 in the play-offs. For all the Vikings love directed at Zigi Wilf (and I do like him), the Vikings play-off record since he has owned the team is 4-8 with no Super Bowl appearances. Davis also won a Super Bowl - not so much for the Vikings. So yeah, I'll trade some ownership meddling for a Super Bowl for the Vikings or a World Series title for the Twins.

Sure, but under the Wilfs the Vikings have reached the conference finals twice; during the same period, Jerry has gotten Dallas to the conference finals exactly never.

Jerry Jones hit on the right coach at the right time out the gate. was that the result of him being a meddler who thought he knew more about football than everyone or did he just get lucky? Kinda seems like the latter. Al Davis was a big winner early on with the Raiders when he was young and on the cutting edge of football, willing to innovate, take risks on players that didn't meet the traditional mold, being ahead of the game on race and free agency. once everyone else caught up...suddenly all the meddling screwed up the franchise. The meddling from ownership rarely helps.

The twins biggest flaw as a franchise is an ownership that is uninterested in investing in the team, and is primarily interested in generating wealth from it. If the Ishbias come in and the twins have more success, it'll be because they've injected capital into the franchise, not because they're making decisions on free agents or firing managers.

they seem like the right kind of ownership for the team: interested in investing, growth-oriented in terms of viewership and attendance and marketing. You just hope they won't make the classic new ownership mistakes of making a big splashy (and dumb) signing, firing, or trade just to have something that they can take credit for and show everyone that the new owners have arrived. The fact that they've been through sports franchise ownership with Phoenix for a couple of years already should help?

but they seem exactly like the sort of owners who would take an operating loss for a few years while in contention in order to try and win it all, rather than cut payroll on a winning team to cash-flow one of their other businesses, and have the resources to look at the benefits over a longer period than year over year.

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

 

You mean like $1 hot dogs, and $5 cans of beer the Twins had last year? Or being able to bring in free food and water? Unlike the Twins, the Suns don't allow outside food, but you can bring in 1 bottle of sealed water (like the Twins allow).

The price list there is what you call "loss leaders" in marketing and business terms. Levy Restaurants & Concessions runs the concessions for the Suns, and I the Suns probably lose money on each of those items after the cost of items and Levy's fees/cuts. The idea is to generate upsells and interest in the team. Increasing the prestige and interest in attending the Suns games is step 1 for the Ishbia's. Once season ticket holder packages are filled and there's a waiting list, prices will start increasing. The Suns were one of the most pathetically attended games in the NBA for a couple years (full seasons not impacted by COVID) prior to the Ishbia's purchasing them.

The Ishbia's understand marketing and revenue generation. If they buy the Twins, I suspect the focus will be on public engagement and making the Twins a prestigious event to attend. They'll keep prices low, get those season tickets sold out, then prices will skyrocket, game day revenues and profits will soar and the team's value will increase.

They're not doing this for the poor, downtrodden masses. They are not your friends. They're business owners looking for a return on investment.

Did I say something that would indicate I don’t understand the concept?  There is a reason I’ve been advocating for it.

And this is not a crappy once a week itsy bitsy dollar weenie. It’s a philosophy change.