Are Trevor Larnach And Matt Wallner Redundent?

[Schmoeman5]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Doesn't need to be like that. Bases empty and/or not a close score, it makes no difference what resources the opposing manager has. But if the other team has a lefty or two they can bring in each time the game hangs in the balance with one of our corner guys due up, it's a disadvantage.

The solution of course is for the new batting coach to figure out what the previous one(s) apparently could not, namely how to bring these lefty hitters to the level of accomplishment they need to be once they reach the majors.  I don't think Keirsey, Wallner, or Larnach showed the extreme L/R splits in the minors like we've seen in the majors (Keirsey being the smallest of major league SSS of course, but he still managed to fit the unfortunate pattern).  It's uncanny how our lefty hitters, possessing normal/small L/R splits in the minors, seemingly all get spooked by LHP when they come up, deer-in-headlights style.

Referring to handedness is of course shorthand.  There's the old cliche that "I don't care which hand he throws with, I want a pitcher who can get lefties out," and the corollary for batters is obvious.  Correa hits righthanders exceedingly well (even if he succeeds even more against lefties).  Lewis is a little hard to figure, given his second-half swoon, but the overall stats for his 2024 show a guy who was playable when facing a right-hander and did better than that against left-handers.  L/R splits are something almost every batter has, and you can live with that, as long as he's playable either way.

The key is, when are they playable.  Correa is totally playable against RHP, and Lewis shows no sign that he isn't playable against them, either.  Wallner and Larnach, just going by results so far, are simply not playable against LHP,  Adding Keirsey to this mix, based on empty results in a mere 4 PA in 2024, threatens to be toxic unless solutions are found pronto.

Or, maybe Buxton can hang in there for 150 starts in CF, and make my concern moot. 😀

There are various solutions to this L/L/L alignment in the outfield, a few of which I've alluded to and there are obviously others.  My point is that I can't simply ignore it, when deciding whether to roster both Larnach and Waller.  They aren't good enough, yet, to let me.

I disagree that Wallner nor Larnach can perform against lh. If health permits they should roll them out there. If the Twins philosophy is to sub out 1 or both at the 1st hint of lh like the past few years then they're not the answer. There are certain lh, guys like Snell and Sale who will twist them in knots. On those days give them the day off. Otherwise, let them play. And before you start calling for Rodriguez and Jenkins, does anyone think they're not going to be platooned as well when their time comes. This will not change until a different group with a different philosophy comes in. I don't understand why the Twins didn't platoon Castro vs lh or Santana vs rh. Yeah they're switch hitters. But Castro numbers are higher from the left side while Santanas numbers were higher from the right side. Explain the difference. Those 2 lead the team in AB even with a significant drop off from 1 side of the plate

[stringer bell]

30 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I disagree that Wallner nor Larnach can perform against lh. If health permits they should roll them out there. If the Twins philosophy is to sub out 1 or both at the 1st hint of lh like the past few years then they're not the answer. There are certain lh, guys like Snell and Sale who will twist them in knots. On those days give them the day off. Otherwise, let them play. And before you start calling for Rodriguez and Jenkins, does anyone think they're not going to be platooned as well when their time comes. This will not change until a different group with a different philosophy comes in. I don't understand why the Twins didn't platoon Castro vs lh or Santana vs rh. Yeah they're switch hitters. But Castro numbers are higher from the left side while Santanas numbers were higher from the right side. Explain the difference. Those 2 lead the team in AB even with a significant drop off from 1 side of the plate

Castro was very playable against lefties early in the season. For whatever reason he slumped horribly against LH pitching from midseason on.

[stringer bell]

46 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I disagree that Wallner nor Larnach can perform against lh. If health permits they should roll them out there. If the Twins philosophy is to sub out 1 or both at the 1st hint of lh like the past few years then they're not the answer. There are certain lh, guys like Snell and Sale who will twist them in knots. On those days give them the day off. Otherwise, let them play. And before you start calling for Rodriguez and Jenkins, does anyone think they're not going to be platooned as well when their time comes. This will not change until a different group with a different philosophy comes in. I don't understand why the Twins didn't platoon Castro vs lh or Santana vs rh. Yeah they're switch hitters. But Castro numbers are higher from the left side while Santanas numbers were higher from the right side. Explain the difference. Those 2 lead the team in AB even with a significant drop off from 1 side of the plate

Agree that someone needs to let the lefties stay in the game. Sure, don't start them versus Skubal and the like, but pulling them as soon as a lefty takes the mound doesn't allow any development. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Agree that someone needs to let the lefties stay in the game. Sure, don't start them versus Skubal and the like, but pulling them as soon as a lefty takes the mound doesn't allow any development. 

How many game dead spots in the line-up are OK if they do not develope.

I do believe they should reduce platooning greatly though.

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

It would be very hard to throw lefty after lefty over multiple games for almost every team. But, ya, not idea, but not a deal breaker for me given the dearth of LHP across the league. 

The twins need a LF, RF, DH and could train one as a 1B......I don't see how these two are close to redundant at all. I just don't understand the premise of this article at all. 

Opposing teams don't need an army of lefties. One RP in the 5th inning is enough to knock one or both of Wallner and Larnach out of the game given the way the Twins treat those matchups. If Kiersey backs up Buxton, that is a problem. Unless we're blaming Margot being allowed to reach historic levels of ineptitude on Levine, or convinced that Falvey, Rocco, et al are going to radically change their approach, there will certainly be some redundancy in the way Larnach and Wallner are deployed. 

[DocBauer]

Short answer is NO, they aren't redundant. The Twins need both a LF and a RF who can hit and provide offense. Plus, 70-75% of all pitchers are RH. So them being LH is a good thing 70-75% of the time.

I've become confused about the fascination of the Twins having "too many" LH bats. Again, most of the time, having good LH hitters is a GOOD THING. Yes, there are switch hitters in baseball, but most of the time, you only get to choose 1 of 2 ways to hit, left or right. 

I believe you just make sure to stagger Larnach and Wallner with at least 1 RH bat between them. Also, let them bat sometimes against LHP to see if they can grow and adjust. (Wallner was actually being "trusted to do so later in the season last year). And don't just automatically remove them in the 5th inning when a LHP takes the mound. Odds are a RHP is coming in next!

I also don't have a big problem if Keirsey is the best option behind Buxton. Again, most pitchers are LH. Castro can play some OF as well, as the aforementioned switch hitter. And SOMEONE is going to be on the roster as a RH hitting OF. Right now, it's likely Helman, who can also play CF, or Martin, if he can improve both his hitting and his defense. But it's also likely there's going to be a semi-interesting RH OF sitting there late January/early February looking for a job.

I've watched Larnach in LF and he's fine. Not great, but fine. Wallner needs to get more comfortable in RF in regards to Target Field, but he's OK, and has a cannon. So he's not Kepler, but he's not bad, just different. 

This arguement is best tabled until 2026 when Rodriguez is hopefully proven ready and already flashed, and Jenkins is closer. Maybe Rosario or McCusker is ready to contribute as well? Even then, there is the potential of DH and a possible switch to 1B for someone.

But for 2025, NO, they are not redundant at all.

[old nurse]

If the Twins valued defense they would be more fundamental sound on defense by the time the players got to the major leagues. They wouldn’t have drafted bat first players 

[Otaknam]

It wouldn’t surprise me if one of them is traded. They are redundant, with similar power profiles and middling defense, though Wallner has a cannon for an arm. But having these two as corner outfielders compromises the defense, and there isn’t enough offensive upside to ignore that. 

[saviking]

On 11/21/2024 at 9:16 AM, Blyleven2011 said:

Larnach went to driveline last off season and showed significant better results  , he should be back there again this off season and hone his skill even more , 2024 could have been  his last season in a twins uniform if he didn't show production   ,  he did and he stays another year ...

Wallner had a horrid start to the season and was sent to AAA  to find himself , he needs to go to driveline this off season to hone his batting eye ...

As far as defense  they are both adequate at the corners  , if they work hard they can be better , the FO and Rocco should also try both of them at first base in spring training to give them versatility  , see in spring training if it is possible  one of them could be a decent first basemen  ...

The only thing redundant on the roster is the injuries ...

The only thing redundant on the roster is the injuries ...

Good one. Well, actually, it's not funny, but some things you just have to laugh at.

As for the first base comment, I've been saying Wallner would make an altar first baseman someday and solve a position of need. That is, if he could develop into a quality defender, I believe he would be fully capable of doing so. Think, mini Justin Mornoe with more power.

[Finlander]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

If the Twins valued defense they would be more fundamental sound on defense by the time the players got to the major leagues. They wouldn’t have drafted bat first players 

It's strange how so many "bat first" players need to be platooned. I remember looking up and down the box score stats last year and seeing many of the players' BA hugging .200-.220 and OBA below .300 or so. Ouch.

16 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if one of them is traded. They are redundant, with similar power profiles and middling defense, though Wallner has a cannon for an arm. But having these two as corner outfielders compromises the defense, and there isn’t enough offensive upside to ignore that. 

Agreed, plus having two marginal defenders in the corner OF positions puts much pressure on the CF to cover even more. Our guy in center is elite but can't stay on the field. I'd argue we need some defensive improvement at one of the corners to relieve some of the pressure at CF. Kepler's defense served that role last year. I think Wallner has more defensive development available - he can run a bit, has a great arm, and stays healthy. With Larnach, I think what you see is what you get at this point, and he's often an injury guy. He seems to be a candidate to eventually transition to 1B or DH. 

[bean5302]

42 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if one of them is traded. They are redundant, with similar power profiles and middling defense, though Wallner has a cannon for an arm. But having these two as corner outfielders compromises the defense, and there isn’t enough offensive upside to ignore that. 

They are polar opposite hitting styles in almost every possible respect, and they have wildly different power profiles. There is virtually nothing similar between the two hitters beyond which side of the plate they stand on.

In the field, they're also polar opposites in terms of skill sets. Larnach is slow with a weak arm, but he has great instincts. Wallner's got a cannon arm and he's nearly as fast as Austin Martin, but he doesn't have the instincts Larnach does.

Wallner has perennial All Star talent. Larnach has the talent to be a regular on an MLB team.

[Schmoeman5]

On 11/21/2024 at 9:16 AM, Blyleven2011 said:

Larnach went to driveline last off season and showed significant better results  , he should be back there again this off season and hone his skill even more , 2024 could have been  his last season in a twins uniform if he didn't show production   ,  he did and he stays another year ...

Wallner had a horrid start to the season and was sent to AAA  to find himself , he needs to go to driveline this off season to hone his batting eye ...

As far as defense  they are both adequate at the corners  , if they work hard they can be better , the FO and Rocco should also try both of them at first base in spring training to give them versatility  , see in spring training if it is possible  one of them could be a decent first basemen  ...

The only thing redundant on the roster is the injuries ...

I agree with your post. But Trevor did not go to Driveline last off season. 

[Blyleven2011]

1 minute ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I agree with your post. But Trevor did not go to Driveline last off season. 

I googled it a it said he did  ...

[Schmoeman5]

12 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

I googled it a it said he did  ...

Well Google is wrong. I'm his dad. He's working with a group out of Nashville.  The same group Brent Rooker is working with. Brent turned him on to it.

[TopGunn#22]

Well, that explains all the "Thumbs Down" from Schmoeman5 !!  (typing that with a SMILE on my face).  :)

I've been frequently frustrated by Rocco's reluctance to let the LH hitters hit against a LHP (especially a relief pitcher) early in the game.  I'm talking 5th inning or sooner.  There were times Rocco removed a LH hitter before he even got an AB !!

But at present, and in the not too distant future, we are going to become VERY Left-Handed with our OF bats.  And it doesn't help to have the lone RH bat (Buxton) hurt so often.  

I believe a trade of one of them to help acquire something else the roster needs while at the same time possibly adding a RH bat that would possibly start in LF would be good for both the player (to move to a team that will give them a chance to hit against LH pitching) and the Twins, if something significant came back in the trade.

Wallner, Larnach, E-Rod, Walker Jenkins, Keirsey.  That's a bit of a log jam.  Maybe Wallner or Larnach COULD become a 1B.  That might be a way to keep both going forward.   

[Riverbrian]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:24 PM, Schmoeman5 said:

Well Google is wrong. I'm his dad.

It only goes to show something that I've always said on this website. 

You never know who you are talking with? You must be proud. Deservedly so. 

On the subject at hand. I don't believe in redundancy or log jams.

Having too many good players is never a problem... Having too many good players is what every team should strive for. Yet... these discussions keep coming up because... we keep trying to reduce depth to an inch deep for some reason. 

Right now... I'm counting on Trevor... I'm counting on Matt... Erod.. All of them. 

Tell Trevor... please don't let me down. 😁

 

[Blyleven2011]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:24 PM, Schmoeman5 said:

Well Google is wrong. I'm his dad. He's working with a group out of Nashville.  The same group Brent Rooker is working with. Brent turned him on to it.

So Google is not smarter than a fifth grader ...

Thanks for clearing this up  and I enjoyed watching his improvement this past season ....