Bring Back Santana in 2025?

[stringer bell]

Carlos Santana seems to have won over the Minnesota Twins' fan base. After a slow start, he has hit well and has been given credit for being an outstanding defender at first base. Santana has been among the most durable baseball players among active players and has logged regular time for fourteen consecutive seasons, logging more than 500 plate appearances each season. 

Since becoming a free agent after the 2017 season, Santana has changed teams often--Philadelphia, Cleveland, Kansas City, Seattle, Pittsburgh and Milwaukee and lastly he signed late in the off season with the Twins. At each stop, he was well regarded, but teams have chosen to look for other options at first base. The seeming answer is that Santana has a well-established floor, but really no ceiling. In looking a little deeper, Santana has notable platoon splits, hitting better against left handed pitchers every year since he had his first free agent contract. His productivity from the left side has been below average more often than not. Since he is a first baseman, better hitting should and could be found to replace him.

In other threads, posters have made mention that Santana should be signed again to man first base in 2025. His contract this season was very reasonable ($5.25M for the season) and I would think that he'll be looking for more after defying Father Time for another season. I remain skeptical of relying on a 39 year old, who is not above average against three quarters of pitchers. At some point, Santana will fall off. If he were to agree for a similar contract and less than full-time duty, it might be worth it to bring him back. 

 

[RpR]

Sign in 2025 -- YES

[USAFChief]

No.

That'd be stupid. 

He's 38. This is his best season in 5. And it's not that good.

 

They hit 16 and caught a 4. No reason to try to hit 17 next year.

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, USAFChief said:

No.

That'd be stupid. 

He's 38. This is his best season in 5. And it's not that good.

 

They hit 16 and caught a 4. No reason to try to hit 17 next year.

If the Twins are going to continue keeping the young lefties away from left handed pitchers. They will need to spend three roster spots on short siders... for that role... Santana is a decent choice. Expensive for a budget challenged team but a good short sider. 

The problem is... Well... you and I both know the problem. 

Carlos has 288 AB's against Right Handers. .215 BA - .682 OPS. This is below average. 

He has 118 AB's against Lefties. .305 BA - .952 OPS. 

I'd say the Twins doubled down on 11... hit a 4. Stood on 15 while the dealer busted. 

I'd rather the Twins spend that limited 5 million dollars tucked away in their sock drawer on a player who can hit the right handed pitchers that comprise 75% of the arms on the MLB tour. 

 

 

[jaimedude]

His defense at first base has been phenomenal. He has been a great Twins player. I don't care that he is 38, there is still tread on the tire and he can still go.  I would welcome him back easily. 

[jorgenswest]

Santana was a success. What about DeSclafani, Topa, Okert, Farmer, Margot, Thielbar and Staumont? They counted on several of these guys to fill the a role on this team. 

Should they use the same strategy next year and add/retain several inexpensive aging veterans in hopes that one gives them league average play in his role? 

[Brandon]

I think he has one or two more seasons in him.  He won’t break the bank because of his age and he is not knocking in more than 85 RBI.  90+ RBI tend to equate to the 10 million plus contract.  Also we have Miranda ready to step in and start playing more 1B if Santana slumps next year.  I doubt Killeroff is back.  Larnarch or Wallner could move to 1B as well when E Rod gets called up.  We have options at 1B should Santana decline.  If he does he still provides value with his glove.  I bet Minnesota could offer him a 6-8 million 1 year extension and he would probably take it as he would get to play for a contender and stay in the same place where he is comfortable and not worry about his next contract during the offseason.  

[Mike Sixel]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

No.

That'd be stupid. 

He's 38. This is his best season in 5. And it's not that good.

 

They hit 16 and caught a 4. No reason to try to hit 17 next year.

Agreed. The odds are so low.....

[cmoss84]

I'd bring him back...if he's willing to take a reasonable contract and play less than 100 games.

[cmoss84]

The Twins are undefeated when RpR gives me a thumbs down...take a W to the bank!

[RpR]

1 hour ago, cmoss84 said:

The Twins are undefeated when RpR gives me a thumbs down...take a W to the bank!

I know , Santana will be the regular starter next year.

[Doctor Wu]

Ironic, I was just thinking about this very scenario yesterday. And I think it's certainly possible that the Twins will try to re-sign him for 2025. He's performed admirably, and when you think about the other options ...with Kiriloff seemingly out of the picture, who else will start at first base? 

[nicksaviking]

Even after losing all the free agents, the projected payroll in 2025 is about 130M. Santana is making over 5M this year, and the only players who will make more than that on the Twins next year are Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Vazquez and Castro.

Unless the Pohlad's have a change of (gain a) heart, I don't anticipate any free agents this off season.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

Even after losing all the free agents, the projected payroll in 2025 is about 130M. Santana is making over 5M this year, and the only players who will make more than that on the Twins next year are Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Vazquez and Castro.

Unless the Pohlad's have a change of (gain a) heart, I don't anticipate any free agents this off season.

All this. 

[USAFChief]

19 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Even after losing all the free agents, the projected payroll in 2025 is about 130M. Santana is making over 5M this year, and the only players who will make more than that on the Twins next year are Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Vazquez and Castro.

Unless the Pohlad's have a change of (gain a) heart, I don't anticipate any free agents this off season.

They'll dabble at the margins with cheap reclamation project bullpen options, like they always do.

But yeah, unless payroll goes up, there's not much money to play with. 

And if there IS more payroll, there will be better ways to spend it than 39 yo Santana. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

They'll dabble at the margins with cheap reclamation project bullpen options, like they always do.

But yeah, unless payroll goes up, there's not much money to play with. 

And if there IS more payroll, there will be better ways to spend it than 39 yo Santana. 

Man, Chief and I keep agreeing lately. I'm kind of scared.

[USAFChief]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Man, Chief and I keep agreeing lately. I'm kind of scared.

Nonconcur.

[cmoss84]

4 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Ironic, I was just thinking about this very scenario yesterday. And I think it's certainly possible that the Twins will try to re-sign him for 2025. He's performed admirably, and when you think about the other options ...with Kiriloff seemingly out of the picture, who else will start at first base? 

I wouldn't mind a 1 year/3m deal to play a part-time/mentor roll to teach our young guys. He will probably (maybe?) get more elsewhere. I'm telling you...if this dude plays a couple more years, he is putting up boarder line HOF numbers. So he might sign somewhere to start. 

I see 1B being a revolving door of these humans:

-Miranda

-Lewis

-Julien

-Wallner

 

[jorgenswest]

29 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

I wouldn't mind a 1 year/3m deal to play a part-time/mentor roll to teach our young guys. He will probably (maybe?) get more elsewhere. I'm telling you...if this dude plays a couple more years, he is putting up boarder line HOF numbers. So he might sign somewhere to start. 

I see 1B being a revolving door of these humans:

-Miranda

-Lewis

-Julien

-Wallner

 

First base gets its place at the end of the defensive spectrum but not everybody can play it. The pool of players is larger because left handed throwers can play there unlike the other infield positions and catcher. It doesn’t need the athleticism of other positions but it does require good hands and some good footwork.

Is that a fit for Julien? I wonder about his hands. I do know he would work his tail off to get better there.

Wallner has not played an inning of first base in the minors or in college or even in college summer leagues. It seems like if that were at all in his skill set he would have seen at least some time there. I did notice that he played center field more often than left or right in college. Margot and Martin have set the bar pretty low for centerfield play. I might give him a shot there particularly at the end of a game after he and Larnach have pinch hit so they can both stay in the game.

Miranda is probably a fit.

I think outfield is the spot where Lewis can best take advantage of his athletic skills.

I wondered about Larnach too. He played just 1 game at first base in a 2017 college summer league. Since he has only played corner outfield I would guess that he isn’t a fit for 1B or someone by now would have played him there.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, cmoss84 said:

I wouldn't mind a 1 year/3m deal to play a part-time/mentor roll to teach our young guys. He will probably (maybe?) get more elsewhere. I'm telling you...if this dude plays a couple more years, he is putting up boarder line HOF numbers. So he might sign somewhere to start. 

I see 1B being a revolving door of these humans:

-Miranda

-Lewis

-Julien

-Wallner

 

Miranda is the only one who can play first; absolutely NO Wallner or Lewis.

Lewis does not field as well as Miranda, so Miranda cannot abandone 3rd.

[August J Gloop]

We got a Julien at first sighting yesterday. Maybe finding a platoon bat at first is a good way to cheap in to some power. Maybe Santana is that platoon bat? Lee seems more and more like a 2B in the Jeff Kent style. And Jose Miranda has mostly been a pretty great MLB hitter when healthy with pretty even platoon, so an every day role is good for him. He's been trending up with the glove over there. So Lewis to Left and Miranda at 3rd seems like a couple good every day players. 

[Linus]

My guess is due to payroll issues we might have to choose between Santana and Castro. I will take Castro without hesitation. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Linus said:

My guess is due to payroll issues we might have to choose between Santana and Castro. I will take Castro without hesitation. 

100x out of 100. He can play SS and CF, and CC and Buxton will get hurt....

[cmoss84]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

First base gets its place at the end of the defensive spectrum but not everybody can play it. The pool of players is larger because left handed throwers can play there unlike the other infield positions and catcher. It doesn’t need the athleticism of other positions but it does require good hands and some good footwork.

Is that a fit for Julien? I wonder about his hands. I do know he would work his tail off to get better there.

Wallner has not played an inning of first base in the minors or in college or even in college summer leagues. It seems like if that were at all in his skill set he would have seen at least some time there. I did notice that he played center field more often than left or right in college. Margot and Martin have set the bar pretty low for centerfield play. I might give him a shot there particularly at the end of a game after he and Larnach have pinch hit so they can both stay in the game.

Miranda is probably a fit.

I think outfield is the spot where Lewis can best take advantage of his athletic skills.

I wondered about Larnach too. He played just 1 game at first base in a 2017 college summer league. Since he has only played corner outfield I would guess that he isn’t a fit for 1B or someone by now would have played him there.

Miranda has 87 games at 1B. Lewis has none, but this is an option for him, as 3B to 1B usually isn't too bad of transition. I'd rather have Lewis at 1B than OF. Julien hasn't exactly been Roberto Alomar at 2B and has 5 games there...which at least hints to the idea the Twins are thinking about using him there . Wallner is tall and athletic enough...I think? Could be in the Matt Olson mold? 

Bottom line is I think all 4 COULD see time there next year. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

My guess is due to payroll issues we might have to choose between Santana and Castro. I will take Castro without hesitation. 

I'm more worried they are going to do something even more drastic and chose between Correa and Lopez.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm more worried they are going to do something even more drastic and chose between Correa and Lopez.

I'm nearly certain if they could get a good deal for CC, he'd be gone. They then put Lee at SS. That frees up so much money....so much. But, I don't see it happening.

OTOH, maybe Baltimore gives up a legit top prospect or two for Lopez (like a RH OF)....but man, that's so risky for the Twins, I wouldn't do that (note, I'd not deal CC either).

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm nearly certain if they could get a good deal for CC, he'd be gone. They then put Lee at SS. That frees up so much money....so much. But, I don't see it happening.

OTOH, maybe Baltimore gives up a legit top prospect or two for Lopez (like a RH OF)....but man, that's so risky for the Twins, I wouldn't do that (note, I'd not deal CC either).

I haven't said it out loud yet, but my fear is the Pohlad's will force such a drastic payroll reduction, that the Twins will be forced to trade Correa, and the only way to do so without eating a good chunk of money is by also giving up top prospects.

I'm sure that's just the irrational part of my brain trying to scare me though.......

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I haven't said it out loud yet, but my fear is the Pohlad's will force such a drastic payroll reduction, that the Twins will be forced to trade Correa, and the only way to do so without eating a good chunk of money is by also giving up top prospects.

I'm sure that's just the irrational part of my brain trying to scare me though.......

I might have to stop being a fan if that happens.

[Craig Arko]

35 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I haven't said it out loud yet, but my fear is the Pohlad's will force such a drastic payroll reduction, that the Twins will be forced to trade Correa, and the only way to do so without eating a good chunk of money is by also giving up top prospects.

I'm sure that's just the irrational part of my brain trying to scare me though.......

You should probably go watch The Exorcist and The Ring a few times.

[Linus]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm more worried they are going to do something even more drastic and chose between Correa and Lopez.

Do you think Correa would waive his no trade?