Twins Add Veteran Reliever Jay Jackson to Already-Full Bullpen

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, HoskenPowell said:

I still think Farmer or Vasquez are gonna be gone.....I'd prefer Vasquez , But I'm guessing Farmer might be more likely to be traded.  Some teams are shy on SS talent and I think Farmer could fill that need for a year or two yet.

Why? I mean, Farmer is the perfect backup for this roster. And Vasquez had his worst year last year, so he's likely to be better (I think). Who is the backup SS here, who plays when CC gets a day off? 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? I mean, Farmer is the perfect backup for this roster. And Vasquez had his worst year last year, so he's likely to be better (I think). Who is the backup SS here, who plays when CC gets a day off? 

I'd be shocked if Farmer is traded unless something happens in ST and the Twins are convinced that Lee is ready to be on the opening day roster and that Gordon can adequately replace Farmer. Both of those things haven to happen, IYAM, and even if Lee is MLB ready, the Twins likely keep in him in the minors to ensure every day AB's. So, back to my first thought. I'm shocked if Farmer is dealt...

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

As for Jackson...

Duran

Jax

Stewart

Thielbar

Topa 

Funderburk

Varland (or Descalfani)

To me, those are locks. I imagine Funderburk is a lock because they need another lefty. That leaves Staumont, Balazovic, Sands, Winder, Alcala and Jackson battling the last spot. 

[Major League Ready]

8 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

As for Jackson...

Duran

Jax

Stewart

Thielbar

Topa 

Funderburk

Varland (or Descalfani)

To me, those are locks. I imagine Funderburk is a lock because they need another lefty. That leaves Staumont, Balazovic, Sands, Winder, Alcala and Jackson battling the last spot. 

My money is on Alcala and Staumont being in the BP with Varland in what Ober's role was last year.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

2 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

My money is on Alcala and Staumont being in the BP with Varland in what Ober's role was last year.

Wouldn't shock me. With Alcala, the potential is tantalizing. Just needs to stay healthy. 

[arby58]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

To me DeSclafani is a double-edged sword. I don't think his upside is that low. He signed a nice contract three years ago as a middle of the rotation starter. His problem since has been injuries. He only pitched 19 innings in 2022 and less than 100 last year. DeSclafani was very effective for his first six starts (1/3 of his season) and reasonable effective through May (11 starts). I have to believe that his ineffectiveness in his last seven starts (28 ER in 32.1 IP) was the result of injury and he was shut down after July 23rd. 

Why this is a double edged sword is that it's quite possible the Twins will get minimal innings out of him. I've seen here that he's not yet throwing in the off season, so he really might not provide depth to the rotation at all. The other side of this is, if he gets fully healthy, I think there's a great chance that he'll give the Twins a lot more than Kenta Maeda did last year. 

Honestly, I think the chances are greater that he is never healthy and thus a non-factor, but there is some hope that he could be a real contributor. Regardless, I don't see him as a Bundy type who is going to throw substandard stuff over the plate and hope that he has great command and good BABIP luck every time out.  

That's a reasonable analysis. My guess is the Twins stash Varland at St. Paul and keep him stretched out to start. Maybe he ends up with a chip on his shoulder - it seemed to work with Ober, who was (at least until he wore down late in the season) arguably the Twins' #3 starter.

[arby58]

55 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? I mean, Farmer is the perfect backup for this roster. And Vasquez had his worst year last year, so he's likely to be better (I think). Who is the backup SS here, who plays when CC gets a day off? 

Agree on both - Farmer can handle 2B, SS, 3B. Castro only played 8 games at SS last year, Gordon only 17 at SS in 2022, and his defensive numbers there were not good.

With Vasquez, you would be selling low, which (other than maybe dumping a bit of salary) isn't going to get you much back in return.

Others have suggested (and I tend to agree) that if they make a trade before the start of the year, it will be 40 man roster prospects that are the primary movers.

[RaoulDuke]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Is anyone keeping track of how many ways Twins Daily participants can spell DeSclafani? Just in this thread I've seen: DeScalfina, DeSlafini and DeScalfani. I was spelling it DeSclafini for a while. I'm sure I've seen DeScalfini and DeScalfani. It's pretty entertaining.

 

M-i-e-n-t-k-i-e-w-i-c-z

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

To me DeSclafani is a double-edged sword. I don't think his upside is that low. He signed a nice contract three years ago as a middle of the rotation starter. His problem since has been injuries. He only pitched 19 innings in 2022 and less than 100 last year. DeSclafani was very effective for his first six starts (1/3 of his season) and reasonable effective through May (11 starts). I have to believe that his ineffectiveness in his last seven starts (28 ER in 32.1 IP) was the result of injury and he was shut down after July 23rd. 

Why this is a double edged sword is that it's quite possible the Twins will get minimal innings out of him. I've seen here that he's not yet throwing in the off season, so he really might not provide depth to the rotation at all. The other side of this is, if he gets fully healthy, I think there's a great chance that he'll give the Twins a lot more than Kenta Maeda did last year. 

Honestly, I think the chances are greater that he is never healthy and thus a non-factor, but there is some hope that he could be a real contributor. Regardless, I don't see him as a Bundy type who is going to throw substandard stuff over the plate and hope that he has great command and good BABIP luck every time out.  

 

38 minutes ago, arby58 said:

That's a reasonable analysis. My guess is the Twins stash Varland at St. Paul and keep him stretched out to start. Maybe he ends up with a chip on his shoulder - it seemed to work with Ober, who was (at least until he wore down late in the season) arguably the Twins' #3 starter.

I feel that way too, and have been referring to DeSclafani as yet another "when healthy" member of the roster.   Loading up on those, when I play Out Of The Park in franchise mode, is almost always a recipe for failure.  Good thing our FO isn't playing games.

The only thing I would add to Stringer's breakdown of the upsides and downsides is this: in 2023 this pitcher spent time on the IL for both shoulder and elbow issues, either of which IMO could turn out to be chronic and increasingly problematic.  Shoulders especially can be career-enders, and elbows are no picnic either.  It's not like his downtime was for fluky things like trying to field a comebacker and winding up with a cracked patella.

If I was asked to contribute my guesswork to FalVine's spreadsheet: 40% chance he contributes essentially nothing, 30% chance he pitches a few starts and then goes down, 20% chance he contributes meaningfully most of the season, and his 10% upside is we find ourselves a year from now wondering why we doubted him.   If it comes together for him he could be a Game Three postseason starter.  The value of that is high.  Odds of that are... low. 

Two teams now this off-season have paid cash to another team to take him off their hands.  That's sobering.

[DocBauer]

3 hours ago, arby58 said:

Correct - and from last year, Maeda was even less average innings pitched per start. I don't understand why DeSclafani has become such a show stopper for people. He's a pretty typical 5th starter. Last year in that role, Varland was 3-3, 5.30 ERA, 1.357 WHIP. Maeda was 6-7, 4.28 ERA, 1.178 WHIP. DeSclafani was 4-8, 4.72, 1.206.

I don't think it has anything to do with DeSclafani directly. I think it has to do with disappointment we didn't get someone  better than him. On top of that, his 2022 was wiped out due to injury after a handful of innings. And last year, he got off to a good start in April, was OK in May, and then fell apart before being placed on the IL for the remainder of the season. If we could somehow get the 2021 version of him, or the April 2023 version of him, he might just be a #3. But that might be unreal expectations or hopes.

Meanwhile, I think a lot of people lose focus on Varland and only remember his last 3 starts in 2023 and that final ERA and WHIP. In 5 starts in 2022 he had a very solid 3.81 ERA, solid 1.231 WHIP, 26 hits in 26 IP, but a mediocre 7.3K. Last season, through his first 7 starts, he had an ERA of 3.51. He allowed 39 hits in 41 IP and ended the total season with a 1.221 WHIP and 9.4K per. His best performance was against Houston on May 31st where he blanked the Astros for 7 IP on only 4 hits.

For whatever reason, the wheels seemed to come off the next 3 games and he was sent down until his September promotion. But it's those first 12 starts that have people like myself excited for what he might develop in to, at least a solid middle of the rotation starter. At least potentially.

And I understand the depth philosophy. Even if Varland looks great in ST and out pitches DeSclafani, he won't be in the initial rotation barring injury to someone. He'll be in St Paul waiting for the opportunity that will eventually come.

So again, I don't think anyone has anything against Disco per say, they are just disappointed we didn't somehow, some way, get someone better.

[jmlease1]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? I mean, Farmer is the perfect backup for this roster. And Vasquez had his worst year last year, so he's likely to be better (I think). Who is the backup SS here, who plays when CC gets a day off? 

Castro could play SS, but I'd rather have Farmer there. And I agree: Farmer is an almost perfect backup on this team: he pairs well with Julien, is average to above average defensively at multiple infield spots, and can even run out to the OF in a pinch. Plus he's very well respected as a veteran leader and seen as a future coach/manager if he wants it.

[akmanak]

I really don't mind this signing. It just seems the Twins are putting together a package for a starter. 

I think this team is starting to come together to at least make them competitive. That really is all I want.  

 

Go Twins 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Good points/ I do really like Bailey Ober too.  He is from Huntersville, NC which is 20 miles from my home.

[Doctor Wu]

These recent pickups/waiver claims ARE a bit baffling. They all could be useful players, but not ones that vault us into some sort of super team. Is there still a trade coming? I honestly can't tell or even get a feel for the front office's thinking at this point. Of course just wanting to make a trade, and actually getting it done, are two different things. Nevertheless, as so many others have already mentioned, we are going to need to move a couple of bodies off the 40-man roster to make room for Santana and someone else. The plot thickens!

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Might the front office have a trick up their sleeve? It seems like the off-season, at least for the Twins, started with the Polanco trade and the recently announced TV deal. The 40 man roster has a lot of redundancy. I wouldn't be shocked if we see a trade for a starting pitcher with Descalfani shifted into a long relief role.

[jorgenswest]

The bar for a waiver claim is whether the player will provide depth in AAA. Last year St. Paul used 39 pitchers. The previous year it was 50. Many arms are needed and the claim/waive cycle is a way to build that depth. They go through position players also using 34 and 44.

More attention probably should be paid to players signing a minor league deal and offered a spring training invite like Goodrum or Alexy this off season.

[Major League Ready]

20 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? I mean, Farmer is the perfect backup for this roster. And Vasquez had his worst year last year, so he's likely to be better (I think). Who is the backup SS here, who plays when CC gets a day off? 

You know I have been saying the same thing about Farmer.  I just can't see them moving him because of his flexibility and his career OPS of .825 against LHP.  Then, I looked up Goodrum just for kicks.  His lifetime OPS against LHP is .816.  They are almost the same against RHP as well.  The two are very similar players so I could see it happening if there was a good place to put the dollars.  What if this made Soler possible?

Of course, we could make a case that their career stats don't necessarily reflect what we should expect in 2024.  I think Farmer is definitely the better bet but it's an interesting twist.

[DJL44]

Looks like the Twins negotiated a $3M option for 2025.