Players the Twins Should Sell High On

[arby58]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:53 PM, NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin said:

I think Castro makes a ton of sense for the Mariners, because 2B was a huge issue for them. Even if he regresses to the mean, his bat still plays well at 2B, and he'll be one of the best defenders at that spot; I think the Mariners could be very interested in what he brings to their defense/lineup.

Castro had a nice year, 2.6 WAR and an exciting, impactful player. That said, he's had 1,365 at bats and produced a career WAR of 3.0. If I'm the Mariners (or any other team), I have to wonder if 2023 was an aberration. Otherwise, why not trot out Nick Gordon? He had a great second half of 2021 ala Castro. If I'm the Mariners, and I'm giving up a front line starting pitcher, the ask is Julien, not Castro.

[Cap'n Piranha]

18 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Fairly certain in every sport everyone has conversations with everyone and it is difficult to get caught tampering. 

Tell that to Joe Smith and the Timberwolves.  I am sure that players talk to each other constantly, and that is not tampering.  But for a FO to do it is another story entirely.  Maybe they don't get caught, but that's why the penalties are so massive when you do.  The risk/reward is just not there, especially if when the FO of say, the Yankees, reaches out, Correa promptly informs the MLBPA and league office himself.

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Polanco for Ray? He wouldn't be available until June of 2024 but the Twins could manage in the meantime without him. That's one way to acquire a top of the rotation lefty. Deal one guy who costs retail price and likely to be out half the season injured for another.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I'm guessing the Twins will want the Mariners to pay down part of his salary in that scenario.  If the Twins make that a sticking point, but the M's are loathe to do it because they're trying to land Ohtani, does Falvine just move on?  Otherwise, a 3 year $69M deal for Ray seems like a pretty good contract for a guy who's ceiling is borderline ace.

[nicksaviking]

18 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

d) larger market teams would not have issues

e) It is a business

f) Lee coming up pretty quick...fans will soon think, "Carlos was cool...but this Lee guy is the coolist!" (With Adam Sandler voice)

None of these are true. Especially the part about the large markets having endless money they are willing to spend, your examples, Anaheim and Boston in particular. The Angels have been getting burned by these contracts for over a decade, next to no chance they're doing it again this off season. The Red Sox are an uncompetitive old team, they are not in position to take on other team's large veteran contracts. If anything, they are going to be trying to get out from under the contracts of Sale, Story, Turner and Jensen, and they'll likely have little success. Both teams are likely taking a step back and it wouldn't be surprising if the Twins actually have a higher payroll than either this next year.

But that's hardly the point. The Twins will have no interest in moving Correa.

[Cap'n Piranha]

51 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Castro had a nice year, 2.6 WAR and an exciting, impactful player. That said, he's had 1,365 at bats and produced a career WAR of 3.0. If I'm the Mariners (or any other team), I have to wonder if 2023 was an aberration. Otherwise, why not trot out Nick Gordon? He had a great second half of 2021 ala Castro. If I'm the Mariners, and I'm giving up a front line starting pitcher, the ask is Julien, not Castro.

Or teams might think the jump in Castro's production was due to getting out of Detroit (and some bad BABIP luck in 2021 and 2022).  That said, I agree with you that Castro on his own is not getting any of the Mariners' starters other than Marco Gonzales, whom you don't want.  If the Mariners are serious about going after Ohtani, even Julien isn't getting you Kirby or Gilbert (and even if they aren't going after Ohtani, you probably need to add one of Lee/ERod/Jenkins to Julien to get one of those guys).  So there's a bit of a mismatch there in the sense that Julien is probably too much for some M's pitchers, but not enough for others; the one exception being Castillo, whom BTV pegs as exactly equal in value to Julien.

As such, I think Ray for either Polanco or a Castro/Larnach package makes some sense; the Twins either hand 2B to Julien full time, allowing Lee to focus on 3B and Lewis to shift to CF, or the Twins maintain their IF flexibility while bringing up Austin Martin to play the Castro role, all while adding a #3 starter at worst (potentially a #1 starter) for the next 2.5 years.  The Mariners offload a starter they didn't need last year and open up payroll for an Ohtani pursuit, while upgrading a lineup spot that was terrible for them last year, or acquire a high level chess piece and a lottery ticket with a higher floor than most.

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

 

In the meantime... Vazquez will be doing 50% of the crouching... maybe 40% if the Twins make Jeffers Numero Uno. Vazquez is going nowhere and he is paid 10 million each year.  

 

Their usage in the playoffs suggests 40% usage for Vazquez is at the high end of the estimate.

Vazquez's contract stinks, but the Twins did this half a decade ago too. Garver stole Jason Castro's job and Castro bided his remaining time with the Twins in a limited fashion. 

[FlyingFinn]

10 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Their usage in the playoffs suggests 40% usage for Vazquez is at the high end of the estimate.

Jeffers thrived when playing 50% of the time. He will have to show that the wear and tear of catching 60% doesn't affect him. The playoffs certainly didn't support Jeffers playing every day. Maybe he just does great when he is healthy and playing half time.

[tony&rodney]

15 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Or teams might think the jump in Castro's production was due to getting out of Detroit (and some bad BABIP luck in 2021 and 2022).  That said, I agree with you that Castro on his own is not getting any of the Mariners' starters other than Marco Gonzales, whom you don't want.  If the Mariners are serious about going after Ohtani, even Julien isn't getting you Kirby or Gilbert (and even if they aren't going after Ohtani, you probably need to add one of Lee/ERod/Jenkins to Julien to get one of those guys).  So there's a bit of a mismatch there in the sense that Julien is probably too much for some M's pitchers, but not enough for others; the one exception being Castillo, whom BTV pegs as exactly equal in value to Julien.

As such, I think Ray for either Polanco or a Castro/Larnach package makes some sense; the Twins either hand 2B to Julien full time, allowing Lee to focus on 3B and Lewis to shift to CF, or the Twins maintain their IF flexibility while bringing up Austin Martin to play the Castro role, all while adding a #3 starter at worst (potentially a #1 starter) for the next 2.5 years.  The Mariners offload a starter they didn't need last year and open up payroll for an Ohtani pursuit, while upgrading a lineup spot that was terrible for them last year, or acquire a high level chess piece and a lottery ticket with a higher floor than most.

The Twins will be looking for a pitcher who has a few years left before free agency and has upside. Robbie Ray has been a good pitcher but has neither of these qualities. I would be very surprised to see Ray become a Twins. We don't know where Seattle casts their eyes for talent to improve their team. We do know they have stated a desire to reduce their strikeouts. I'm thinking the Twins want to hold Polanco and Kepler next season but perhaps those two plus money and a good prospect nets a Seattle pitcher of note. It is really hard to determine/guess what direction either Minnesota or Seattle is headed right now. A major trade for one of Kirby, Gilbert, or Miller is possible but the cost would be high. Perhaps the Twins like Varland enough to hold. I do think Miami is still a possibility and also Milwaukee. Milwaukee only happens if something else occurs first though.

[Cap'n Piranha]

26 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins will be looking for a pitcher who has a few years left before free agency and has upside. Robbie Ray has been a good pitcher but has neither of these qualities. I would be very surprised to see Ray become a Twins. We don't know where Seattle casts their eyes for talent to improve their team. We do know they have stated a desire to reduce their strikeouts. I'm thinking the Twins want to hold Polanco and Kepler next season but perhaps those two plus money and a good prospect nets a Seattle pitcher of note. It is really hard to determine/guess what direction either Minnesota or Seattle is headed right now. A major trade for one of Kirby, Gilbert, or Miller is possible but the cost would be high. Perhaps the Twins like Varland enough to hold. I do think Miami is still a possibility and also Milwaukee. Milwaukee only happens if something else occurs first though.

Ray has 3 years until FA (he technically has an opt out after this year, but it would be shocking to see a guy opt out of a 2 year $46M contract with only a half season under his belt in a TJ return year).  He also has far more upside than almost any other pitcher the Twins could reasonably acquire; do Kirby/Gilbert/Luzardo/Perez have more upside?  Sure, but they're going to require a package starting with Julien and Lee, and might cost you Varland/Festa and another prospect as well.  Ray is a very nice buy low candidate with serious upside--any other arm that realistically profiles as a top 50 pitcher in 2024 is going to cost cheap, controllable, MLB-ready or near to it talent, and while the Twins have a decent amount of that, they don't have so much that they should be fine with simply giving up multiple players who fit that description.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Their usage in the playoffs suggests 40% usage for Vazquez is at the high end of the estimate.

Vazquez's contract stinks, but the Twins did this half a decade ago too. Garver stole Jason Castro's job and Castro bided his remaining time with the Twins in a limited fashion. 

I agree that Jeffers usage should increase in 2024 but Vazquez is going to take away significant playing time... not only Vazquez but whoever is catching if Vazquez gets hurt for stretch because catchers typically have playing time limitations and I don't see that changing. 

In 2019... Jason Castro's final year. He caught 78 games while Garver caught 82. Garver DH'd 4 games for a total of 311 AB's during the season. That was a total of 74 more AB's than Castro had. The playing time difference between Garver and Castro wasn't significant and you have to consider that Garver hit 31 home runs in those 311 AB's with an OPS+ of 157, Garver was the best hitting catcher in baseball that year and it wasn't even close. Despite those incredible offensive numbers... Castro took significant playing time from Garver.   

In 2018... Garver caught 86 games... Castro was out for the season after he tore his knee up in May. The combination of Castro, Bobby Wilson, The Turtle, Gimenez and Graterol caught more games than Garver did. 

In 2017... Castro was the guy catching in 108 games. 

In 2023... JT Realmuto led the league by putting the pads on in 133 games but Realmuto didn't have a 10 million dollar guy behind him. Garrett Stubbs with his career .631 OPS making the minimum appeared in 40 games. Cal Raleigh caught in 128... DH'd in 15 games. Ruiz caught in 117 games DH'd for 16 with the Nationals. Those three were the squatting leaders in 2023.  

Adley Rutschman led all Catchers with 588 AB's... Catching 110 games total. The Orioles did have a 10 million dollar guy behind him in James McCann who got behind the plate for 59 games. Rutschman got to 588 AB's by also appearing as DH in 46 games. 

William Contreras caught 108 games and served as DH in 33 games. 

Salvador Perez was at 1B for 23 games and DH for 29. 

95 Players in 2023 had over 500 AB's... Only 5 of those were catchers (those 5 are illustrated above) everyone of those catchers spent frequent time at the DH position to climb to that AB level. For the Twins... Vazquez had 311 - Jeffers had 286. 

No matter how good Jeffers is and I think he is very good. The presence of Vazquez plus the rest that catchers require plus the consideration of the multiple options provided by our depth to utilize the DH position plus the possibility that someone like Buxton hogs all the DH AB"s... it should all scream out to everyone that Jeffers will have limited playing time. 

The 350 AB's that Jeffers might get in 2024 can (in theory) be upgraded to 500 AB's from players that play other positions at his present "Sell High" value.

  

  

[cmoss84]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

The Angels have been getting burned by these contracts for over a decade, next to no chance they're doing it again this off season.

Tell this to my Angel buddies and they will laugh at you. The Angels have been a joke of an organization and continue to make mind-boggling moves every year. Angel fans (die-hard) are done with them...especially if they do not re-sign Sho Hei the Money.

I am not saying there are a lot of teams to make this happen. I am saying I would not be surprised if it did. I could easily see him becoming a Dodger. 

I also did not say the Twins WANT to get rid of him. I am saying we could sell high on him now, as the thread asks for ideas...

[cmoss84]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Tell that to Joe Smith and the Timberwolves.  I am sure that players talk to each other constantly, and that is not tampering.  But for a FO to do it is another story entirely.  Maybe they don't get caught, but that's why the penalties are so massive when you do.  The risk/reward is just not there, especially if when the FO of say, the Yankees, reaches out, Correa promptly informs the MLBPA and league office himself.

Joe Smith and the Twolves happened how many years ago? It is extremely rare when this happens...in any sport. You need a reality check if you think otherwise. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

48 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

Tell this to my Angel buddies and they will laugh at you. The Angels have been a joke of an organization and continue to make mind-boggling moves every year. Angel fans (die-hard) are done with them...especially if they do not re-sign Sho Hei the Money.

I am not saying there are a lot of teams to make this happen. I am saying I would not be surprised if it did. I could easily see him becoming a Dodger. 

I also did not say the Twins WANT to get rid of him. I am saying we could sell high on him now, as the thread asks for ideas...

Dodgers fans DESPISE Correa, as one of, if not THE ringleader of the cheating scandal that they feel cost them a World Series title.  Almost no chance LAD wants to acquire Correa.  There is almost no scenario in which another team trades for Correa without having to massively overpay in prospect capital, all for the "right" to acquire an aging player showing potential offensive decline and a growing list of potentially chronic injuries, while being one of the 10 most expensive players in baseball.

All of that is not to say that Correa can't be a positive for the Twins, simply that any team trying to acquire him is going to assess for risk in a way the Twins just don't, and C4 has an awful lot of risk associated with him.

[Cap'n Piranha]

51 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

Joe Smith and the Twolves happened how many years ago? It is extremely rare when this happens...in any sport. You need a reality check if you think otherwise. 

Maybe it's extremely rare that tampering gets punished because tampering (at the FO level) is extremely rare?  Do you have any proof that FOs are routinely making contact with other organization's players, or are you simply speculating?  By-the-by, even if tampering by a FO can't be "proven", I would imagine any FO that gets the reputation of being willing to tamper will have an awfully hard time working with the 29 other FOs; in a game like baseball where you can't just exclusively draft-and-develop a winner, but actually have to make trades, that's not something any FO would want, and I imagine a number of FOs would adamantly refuse to do business with a FO suspected of tampering, if for no other reason than spite.

[cmoss84]

3 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

THE ringleader of the cheating scandal that they feel cost them a World Series title.

You haven't heard? That never happened...😆😆😆

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, cmoss84 said:

Joe Smith and the Twolves happened how many years ago? It is extremely rare when this happens...in any sport. You need a reality check if you think otherwise. 

I think you should do some checking of reality before making these claims. Joe Maddon, Aaron Judge, Manny Machado, David Ortiz. All names that have been involved in tampering situations in MLB in the last 10 years. Players actually aren't allowed to recruit other players (it's why Judge is on that list). 

It's far more frequent in the NBA. The Lakers got fined for tampering with Paul George 5 years ago. The Hawks, Rockets, and Kings were fined for it within the last decade as well. Shoot, the Raptors got fined for it because Drake told Durant at one of his shows that he should go to Toronto. Maybe do some research on the topic next time before making these claims.

Edit to add: Not sure how I forgot the most famous one recently- Bryce Harper tampering with Mike Trout.

[cmoss84]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I think you should do some checking of reality before making these claims. Joe Maddon, Aaron Judge, Manny Machado, David Ortiz. All names that have been involved in tampering situations in MLB in the last 10 years. Players actually aren't allowed to recruit other players (it's why Judge is on that list). 

It's far more frequent in the NBA. The Lakers got fined for tampering with Paul George 5 years ago. The Hawks, Rockets, and Kings were fined for it within the last decade as well. Shoot, the Raptors got fined for it because Drake told Durant at one of his shows that he should go to Toronto. Maybe do some research on the topic next time before making these claims.

Edit to add: Not sure how I forgot the most famous one recently- Bryce Harper tampering with Mike Trout.

Our definitions of rare are very different. You guys are talking names (and not that many) within the last 5-25 years. This to me is rare. To each their own. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, cmoss84 said:

Our definitions of rare are very different. You guys are talking names within the last 5-25 years. This to me is rare. To each their own. 

You claimed other teams could "talk Carlos into wanting a change of scenery." It was pointed out to you that that was "textbook" tampering. You then suggested "everyone has conversations with everyone and it is difficult to get caught tampering." You were provided the most famous MN connection to tampering and that poster suggested that even if you don't get punished you're tarnishing your name with the other FOs and will make it more difficult to do business. You then claimed it was "extremely rare" that this happens. I provide you numerous examples that range from 3 years to 10 years ago.

Would you like more? The NBA actually increased their penalties for tampering in 2019 because it was such a problem. In 2020 the NBA vetoed a trade between the Bucks and Kings because of tampering. The Bucks lost a 2022 2nd round pick for tampering (that was just last year). In 2021 the Bulls and Heat were caught tampering and both lost draft picks. The Clippers were fined in 2019 for tampering with Kawhi Leonard. Daryl Morey were fined in 2021 for tampering with Steph and Seth Curry. There's a bunch of things within the last 4 years, including just last season. 

NFL example: Dolphins didn't have a 2023 (that's pretty recent, no?) 1st round pick because they were punished for tampering with Tom Brady. The Chiefs lost a couple draft picks in 2016 and 2017 for tampering as well, but yes, that was ages ago.

To add another MLB example, the Yankees had some tampering concerns in 2020 also dealing with Mike Trout. If all this still matches your definition of rare I don't know what to tell you other than maybe your definition of rare could use some updating. Getting caught tampering is not "extremely rare" in "every sport." But it is less pronounced in MLB than other leagues. 

[jorgenswest]

Good work @Riverbrian on the catching usage. I think we need all three of Jeffers, Vazquez and Camargo next year. 

Love this thread and hope a few at can’t stop bantering back and forth take it to DM or create their own tampering discussion.

[cmoss84]

37 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You claimed other teams could "talk Carlos into wanting a change of scenery." It was pointed out to you that that was "textbook" tampering. You then suggested "everyone has conversations with everyone and it is difficult to get caught tampering." You were provided the most famous MN connection to tampering and that poster suggested that even if you don't get punished you're tarnishing your name with the other FOs and will make it more difficult to do business. You then claimed it was "extremely rare" that this happens. I provide you numerous examples that range from 3 years to 10 years ago.

Would you like more? The NBA actually increased their penalties for tampering in 2019 because it was such a problem. In 2020 the NBA vetoed a trade between the Bucks and Kings because of tampering. The Bucks lost a 2022 2nd round pick for tampering (that was just last year). In 2021 the Bulls and Heat were caught tampering and both lost draft picks. The Clippers were fined in 2019 for tampering with Kawhi Leonard. Daryl Morey were fined in 2021 for tampering with Steph and Seth Curry. There's a bunch of things within the last 4 years, including just last season. 

NFL example: Dolphins didn't have a 2023 (that's pretty recent, no?) 1st round pick because they were punished for tampering with Tom Brady. The Chiefs lost a couple draft picks in 2016 and 2017 for tampering as well, but yes, that was ages ago.

To add another MLB example, the Yankees had some tampering concerns in 2020 also dealing with Mike Trout. If all this still matches your definition of rare I don't know what to tell you other than maybe your definition of rare could use some updating. Getting caught tampering is not "extremely rare" in "every sport." But it is less pronounced in MLB than other leagues. 

We disagree on this. Let's leave it at that and move on. 

[rv78]

It took a Batting Champion to bring Pablo Lopez to the Twins. I don't see any of the 3 you mentioned being of that value. Also, Arraez was expendable due to his lack of fielding ability at any significant position that the Twins didn't feel was already covered with another player that could play that position better. Jeffers, Castro and Larnach wouldn't bring a return like Arraez did even if you put all 3 together. 

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Ray has 3 years until FA (he technically has an opt out after this year, but it would be shocking to see a guy opt out of a 2 year $46M contract with only a half season under his belt in a TJ return year).  He also has far more upside than almost any other pitcher the Twins could reasonably acquire; do Kirby/Gilbert/Luzardo/Perez have more upside?  Sure, but they're going to require a package starting with Julien and Lee, and might cost you Varland/Festa and another prospect as well.  Ray is a very nice buy low candidate with serious upside--any other arm that realistically profiles as a top 50 pitcher in 2024 is going to cost cheap, controllable, MLB-ready or near to it talent, and while the Twins have a decent amount of that, they don't have so much that they should be fine with simply giving up multiple players who fit that description.

Yes Ray is signed through 2026, but it comes at a cost of $73 million plus a $1 mil if traded ($74M) and he is returning from injury in 2024 which makes the contract effectively larger. I like Robbie Ray and would welcome his addition to the Twin. I just don't see it happening. Sonny Gray, Jordan Montgomery, or Aaron Nola at 3/$81 are likely better values. Not saying each gets that annual number but the totals are all probably way low. 

What Seattle wants is unknown at this point and speculation is just guesses, which some of us do. Seattle wants a RF, 2B, maybe 1B, and prefers guys who are more difficult to strike out. I have no idea how Seattle views players in the Twins system, but a call is worthwhile. I will remind you that last year Pablo Lopez carried twice the value of Luis Arraez. Teams are looking for ways to improve their team. So are the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

7 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

Jeffers thrived when playing 50% of the time. He will have to show that the wear and tear of catching 60% doesn't affect him. The playoffs certainly didn't support Jeffers playing every day. Maybe he just does great when he is healthy and playing half time.

Ya. Six games tell us so much......

[Cap'n Piranha]

17 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Yes Ray is signed through 2026, but it comes at a cost of $73 million plus a $1 mil if traded ($74M) and he is returning from injury in 2024 which makes the contract effectively larger. I like Robbie Ray and would welcome his addition to the Twin. I just don't see it happening. Sonny Gray, Jordan Montgomery, or Aaron Nola at 3/$81 are likely better values. Not saying each gets that annual number but the totals are all probably way low. 

What Seattle wants is unknown at this point and speculation is just guesses, which some of us do. Seattle wants a RF, 2B, maybe 1B, and prefers guys who are more difficult to strike out. I have no idea how Seattle views players in the Twins system, but a call is worthwhile. I will remind you that last year Pablo Lopez carried twice the value of Luis Arraez. Teams are looking for ways to improve their team. So are the Twins.

I would be surprised if Sonny Gray was as good as Robbie Ray over the next 3 years.  Gray's HR/FB rate is completely unsustainable--that will regress to the mean, especially because his hard hit rate took a jump as soon as he came to the Twins.  Last year he outperformed his xERA by almost a full run.  He somehow gained a sizable jump in velo across all pitches last year, probably due to being healthy, but is betting on continued health for an about to be 34 year old Sonny Gray a good bet?

Nola and Montgomery are both more than 3 years younger than Gray (both will be in their age 31 season next year), and therefore are probably looking for more than 3 year deals; if either of them have a 3/$81M deal, it's because they have an opt-out after year 3, but the full contract is for 5/$125M or so.

Given the history of Falvine (trading for good players whose value is depressed for whatever reason), and the unlikeliness of giving a pitcher a 9 figure deal (they wouldn't even do it for a guy they gave up assets for), Ray is probably our best shot at getting a true playoff top 3 starter.

I have no clue how you think Pablo had twice the value of Arraez when the Marlins sent us not one but two additional prospects in the deal--clearly Miami valued Arraez more than Lopez.  If you're talking about actual 2023 performance, Lopez had 4.5 WAR and Arraez 3.4, so nowhere close to twice the value.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:52 PM, FlyingFinn said:

The Twins have depth in their organization at 2B/SS/3B and not catcher. Therefore, I'm not trading Jeffers.

This. Would be reluctant to trade him because it all-but guarantees a revolving door at catcher for the foreseeable future. How the organization looks at Jeffers - i.e., the post-season starts over Vazquez - make it pretty certain that he isn't going anywhere.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

20 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Our definitions of rare are very different. You guys are talking names (and not that many) within the last 5-25 years. This to me is rare. To each their own. 

How much do you follow the NBA? Reason I ask is because tampering is basically an accepted norm now. Free agency opens on July 1st at 6:00 PM EST and deals are being announced at 6:01 PM. You also have players under contract forcing their way to preferred destinations - that's not by accident.

I do think it is less frequent in the NFL and Brady was an outlier. But, in the NBA - it's rampant...

[tony&rodney]

3 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I have no clue how you think Pablo had twice the value of Arraez

I never thought Lopez had twice the value. I was referring to the BTV site that many use to judge or guess at fair trades. My point is that we don't know the value other teams place on our players as well as to guess that Falvey does not want to trade for a player like Ray with a $74 M price tag. I'm fine with adding Ray because it is not my money, but I just don't think it is likely. So I'm not questioning the value of Ray as a pitcher and the Lopez-Arraez comment referred to BTV which is interesting but that is about it.

[Doctor Gast]

Our catching depth is very low, especially in the higher levels. highly due to very bad drafting these last years. Our only hope since we have forgotten our catching depth is to trade for promising young MLB-ready & soon to be catchers, there are a few out there. While we have Vazquez to mentor them, it's the perfect opportunity to do so. Catching is a very important position. Jeffers is not our answer to advance into the postseason, Now that his value is high, we have to trade him or we'll be coming short of our potential every year he's there.

[Doctor Wu]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:59 AM, cmoss84 said:

Joe Smith and the Twolves happened how many years ago? It is extremely rare when this happens...in any sport. You need a reality check if you think otherwise. 

Yes indeed, that Joe Smith thing happened MANY years ago, back in the days before my hair started turning gray!

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:16 AM, mnfireman said:

Free Trevor Larnach. He deserves a chance, but this FO does not seem willing to give it to him. Package him with Miranda and try to fill some needs.

I don't know if Larnach has much value at this point and Miranda has certainly cratered, at least temporarily.

Personally, I'd keep both and trade both Kepler and Polanco. Maybe Larnach is never good again but it's something I'd like to find out before trading him for little to nothing.

And I think Miranda is going to bounce back nicely with the bat, though he's still a defensive albatross.