Starting to look like standing pat at the deadline was the right strategy

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

34 minutes ago, Beast said:

I agree on not trading prospects for relievers.  That’s why you sign them to cheap deals.  They’re dime-a-dozen.

You could say “what difference would it make” about any player if you don’t think 2-3 wins is significant.  Really strange take.  It’s extremely significant.  A 2-3 WAR player has value.  Especially when comparing them to a negative WAR player (like Floro, for example).

There isn’t one single reliever we could had on this team that would’ve made a difference?  We could have signed free agents Chris Martin (1.17 ERA in 50 games), Matt Straham (3.29 ERA in 82 innings), Adam Ottavino (3.05 ERA in 60 games), Carlos Estevez (3.41 ERA in 58 games - 30 saves), Luke Jackson (3.14 ERA in 29 games), Tommy Kahnle (2.43 ERA in 39 games), Craig Kimbrel (3.39 ERA in 63 games), David Robertson (3.10 ERA in 54 games), Matt Moore (2.83 ERA in 45 games), Trevor May (3.70 ERA in 44 games), Aroldis Chapman (2.72 ERA in 55 games).

Every single one of those guys signed 1 or 2 year contracts with less AAV than Joey Gallo.

I can’t disagree more with the take that it “doesn’t matter.”  Take even one of those guys and insert them into the ‘pen and things look much more promising going into the playoffs.

Also, up until the recent mini-skid, we were within 4-5 games of getting the #2 seed and getting a first round bye and home field in the second round.  Crossing that threshold would be a pretty big deal for this team.

Really strange take to say the bullpen doesn’t matter.  No offense, but I consider it idiocy.

Again, I agree that trading prospects for relievers isn’t good.  Well, then don’t be incompetent in free agency and you can avoid it.  They made their bed, they should’ve slept in it to give this team a punchers chance in the playoffs.  This team has no shot if they’re running out some of these guys, and they can’t only use 2 or 3 relievers.

I can't argue swapping a Gallo contract for a reliever,  it would have been a better roster construction.  At the same point the org was maxed out on salary after the Correa signing so I can understand not signing a reliever especially after signing Gallo.  They still have a budget to follow from management whether we agree with it or not.  

Lets be clear though this team has outperformed all expectations to start the season.  Anyone thinking this was the year to put all their chips in  . . . well I guess that would be the true idiocy.  I think the org when they feel they have a good shot will put their chips in,  we just hope that it hits.  

[KirbyDome89]

5 hours ago, Trov said:

There is a reason to trade for a solid middle inning arm(or two) at the deadline.  One, you do not know if they would have been any better than what we had, look at some of the moves we have made over the years for guys that either get injured right away (Sam Dyson) or regress right away (Lopez). Sure, it is worth trying sometimes, but our farm system was already considered getting thin, and it would have cost more prospects.  Prospects like Cano who has turned out better than the guy we traded for.  It would could lead to DFA some guys that turn out to be better than who we bring in.  

We do not know what teams were asking for some of the guys.  I did a forum the other day pointing out the guys moved and how only a couple have been that much better than the player they would have stepped in for. I agree the pen is not the best, and doing worse as the season moves on.  But to continue to buy rental pen arms at trade deadline will come back to haunt down the road.  I mean, what if the asking price for one of those arms was Lee, would you do it because we needed the pen arm?  

You honestly don't believe they could've done better than anybody 4-8, or Jax at times, or even matched Theilbar's talent level? Seriously? So just don't attempt to get better because there's a chance you won't? That's some massively flawed logic. Cano wasn't a prospect, he was 28 with absolutely no Major League success. He was literally a throw in for Lopez. If you think you're getting established talent back (they did,) you trade guys like Cano 100/100 times. I have no clue why you'd be worried about DFA candidates if the farm system is thin. 

There were plenty of better options available, and they didn't cost much. Brooks Lee for a 2 month bullpen rental? What is this nonsense? 

[KirbyDome89]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I can't argue swapping a Gallo contract for a reliever,  it would have been a better roster construction.  At the same point the org was maxed out on salary after the Correa signing so I can understand not signing a reliever especially after signing Gallo.  They still have a budget to follow from management whether we agree with it or not.  

Lets be clear though this team has outperformed all expectations to start the season.  Anyone thinking this was the year to put all their chips in  . . . well I guess that would be the true idiocy.  I think the org when they feel they have a good shot will put their chips in,  we just hope that it hits.  

They're on pace to win 84-85 games, which is pretty much where most people had them. The only reason they're going to hit that modest number of wins is because they've been blessed with one of the worst divisions of all time, and subsequently one of the easiest schedules in baseball. This club isn't outperforming expectations. 

In what world is a mid tier RP and/or a RH outfield bat pushing all your chips in? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I really have no opinion on what the front office did or did not do at the trade deadline.

My take on the deadline was: I have no idea who the front office is supposed to trade for, and it seems like they don't know either.

I'll stand by that.

However, a poster upthread did mention some names of relievers who have done pretty well for their new teams, actually. Chris Stratton from the Cardinals? Doing pretty good and heck the Twins were in St. Louie over the deadline. Just switch clubhouses, wouldn't even need to book flights! 

It's not true to say things like 'no one traded at the deadline is working out.' But people will say it anyway and on it goes.

4 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Duran, Jax, Thielbar, Funderburk, Stewart, Varland, Pagan, and 2 of Maeda, Paddack, Alcala and Winder and Keuchel. 

This is the postseason bullpen you had in mind, when the Twins were holding pat at the trade deadline on August 1st? Interesting indeed 🙂

 

[Fatbat]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I am more optimistic about the long term projections of the organization.  I am stating they have a 4-5% chance of doing some damage in the Playoffs.  That isn't exactly going out on a limb 😁.  

I give them 15-20% chance of doing post season damage. Based mostly on health if it holds up. 

[Brandon]

47 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

They're on pace to win 84-85 games, which is pretty much where most people had them. The only reason they're going to hit that modest number of wins is because they've been blessed with one of the worst divisions of all time, and subsequently one of the easiest schedules in baseball. This club isn't outperforming expectations. 

In what world is a mid tier RP and/or a RH outfield bat pushing all your chips in? 

The Twins are playing bottom level teams the rest of the season.  They will end up with 86-88 wins on the season. 

[Brandon]

The Twins just needed tweaks at the deadline. 1. To eke out every win possible because Cleveland was still in the race and 2.  To make us stronger in the postseason.  
We need a reliever and RH hitting OF that is way better than Luplow.  We ended up fine for the season as we close in on the division title.  But having the two spots filled makes us stronger going into the playoffs.  We didn’t do this.  Seeing how we made so many other improvements especially on offense. It still stings that we didn’t address those two things because we are still lacking better talent in these two areas and we are now built for post season success and the 2 runs saved that a skilled reliever saves or the hit the bat we should have acquired would have made could be the difference in an extra win or loss in the postseason.  Or not as we are talking about complimentary players.  I think improving around the edges can be big.  See Don Baylor for a good example.

[Nine of twelve]

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

The only reason they're going to hit that modest number of wins is because they've been blessed with one of the worst divisions of all time, and subsequently one of the easiest schedules in baseball.

This goes a bit off-topic. The new schedule doesn’t give us that much of a break because there are fewer intradivision games than in the past. There used to be 76 intradivision games, now there are only 52.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

They're on pace to win 84-85 games, which is pretty much where most people had them.

I had them at 90+ wins at the beginning of year. They were running out the best starting pitchers in my lifetime and had Ober and Varland in the minors and Duran at the back of the pen. They were running out two supposedly all world players (Buxton and Correa) plus some young guys I really liked AK, Miranda, Jeffers and Julien and solid backups everywhere (Taylor, Solano Farmer). The only reason I only had them at 90 was the abysmal job they did setting up the pen.

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

This goes a bit off-topic. The new schedule doesn’t give us that much of a break because there are fewer intradivision games than in the past. There used to be 76 intradivision games, now there are only 52.

4 of the 5 worst records in the AL reside in the Central Division. The Twins will be the only team to finish above .500 in that god awful division, and they're currently 4.5 games out of the last WC spot. Idk how anybody can argue that they haven't had a massive advantage this season.

[Aerodeliria]

10 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Fair enough. I actually didn't want a big, splashy move at the deadline. I was pretty conservative, I just wanted a good reliever and a functional RHB. My disappointment that they didn't clear that incredibly low bar is very high.

...and in the end, they had to pick up a couple of outfielders from the scrap heap instead. In other words, we ended up with bats, but particularly poor ones...and no relief help at all.

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

4 of the 5 worst records in the AL reside in the Central Division. The Twins will be the only team to finish above .500 in that god awful division, and they're currently 4.5 games out of the last WC spot. Idk how anybody can argue that they haven't had a massive advantage this season.

But the advantage lies primarily with not needing a lot of wins to qualify for the postseason. The difficulty of schedule is only a very slight advantage. 

[DocBauer]

I'm on both sides of this arguement. 

I honestly felt this team was built to win 90-92 games if the offense could come through. That was my biggest worry. How quickly would the kids be ready? Would Gallo and Kepler do anything? Would Polanco be his old self? It wasn't just losing Arraez, a trade I would make again. 

Well, we know how the offense was the first half. Probably cost us a half dozen games at least.

I wasn't crazy about the pen, but it was actually my secondary concern. I had a lot of hope for Moran and Alcala. I just didn't want to bank on them. I wasn't sure who, but I wanted at least one good, proven arm to add for depth on the back end. And when that didn't happen, I was frustrated, and confused. What frustrated me all the more was a couple veterans like Hoffman and Coulombe throwing very well and deserving of a spot to begin the season sent away. And while I haven't checked on them for a while, last time I looked they were having good years.

To be fair, the pen still was around league average for the first half. BUT, they could have been better with that ONE offseason addition, OR, sticking with a couple veteran fliers who looked good in ST. But they did neither. Isn't the whole point of brining in arms to audition to FIND a diamond? So why cast them aside when you find them? Stewart was a GIFT before his injury, but he could have been an ADD to a better pen, not a mid season savior!

Said it before, will say it again, the FO went about 90% IN for 2023 and then just STOPPED. A decent RH bat, ONE FA BP arm, actually KEEPING a BP flier that was looking good, would have pushed the offseason to 100%.

Past history shows BP arms at the deadline...not a closer, just a solid, quality arm....doesn't usually come at any great cost. Think Romo a few years ago. To do NOTHING, other than swap out Lopez for Floro, was inexcusable, especially knowing Stewart was headed to the IL. They needed to make a single, solid addition to help rectify the inattention of the offseason and mistakes coming out of ST.

I DO AGREE that paying any sort of high prospect level trade for a TOP arm would have been a mistake. But I don't think they had to necessarily make that kind of deal. They just needed some help.

GOING FORWARD, I honestly do see the potential for a pretty solid playoff pen. So I can agree with that perspective. Funderburk shows some promise, and could help, but I would have been auditioning him a good 2 weeks earlier. The temp move of Varland to the pen is smart. Reports are Stewart is feeling great, throwing hard, and might be back in a week or so. One of Ryan, Ober, Maeda will probably see pen time, especially if the Twins advance past the 1st round. Should that happen, Keuchel might enter the discussion as a veteran LH to piggyback off a short start for someone.

Yes, the playoff pen might actually turn out pretty good. I'll grant that. 

There's an old joke that comes to mind here that still makes me laugh to this day: "Know what burns my ass? A flame about 3 feet high". 

But what also burns it is an opportunity to build the best, most complete and dangerous team the Twins could have had in years if they had just invested a little more $ on a solid RH OF bat, and ONE hopefully smart FA for the pen, and/or held on to 1 or 2 veteran flier arms coming out of ST that might have made a HUGE difference to make our pen as strong as the starting staff was. Even WITH the misguided Gallo flier, it wouldn't have cost much more for those additions.

A couple HUGE missed opportunities that would have cost little. And the WORST thing that could have happened was missing on someone. THAT'S where having guys in AAA and the trade deadline come in to play. The ability to add or correct something that didn't turn out the way you hoped.

[KirbyDome89]

52 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

But the advantage lies primarily with not needing a lot of wins to qualify for the postseason. The difficulty of schedule is only a very slight advantage. 

The Twins will play 2x more games against low quality divisional opponents than a team like Seattle. That number jumps for the Jays in the East. Again, I don't see how that's only a slight advantage. Do you think MN would be tracking towards a mid 80s win total in the East or West?

[Ricky Vaughn]

I think your a tad optimistic here, but i do think they have a good chance of ending the losing streak. One thing puzzles me though. Exactly what corner do you think Buxton is turning?

[Boswell]

8 hours ago, Beast said:

There isn’t one single reliever we could had on this team that would’ve made a difference?  We could have signed free agents Chris Martin (1.17 ERA in 50 games), Matt Straham (3.29 ERA in 82 innings), Adam Ottavino (3.05 ERA in 60 games), Carlos Estevez (3.41 ERA in 58 games - 30 saves), Luke Jackson (3.14 ERA in 29 games), Tommy Kahnle (2.43 ERA in 39 games), Craig Kimbrel (3.39 ERA in 63 games), David Robertson (3.10 ERA in 54 games), Matt Moore (2.83 ERA in 45 games), Trevor May (3.70 ERA in 44 games), Aroldis Chapman (2.72 ERA in 55 games).

Every single one of those guys signed 1 or 2 year contracts with less AAV than Joey Gallo.

…… Again, I agree that trading prospects for relievers isn’t good.  Well, then don’t be incompetent in free agency and you can avoid it.  They made their bed, they should’ve slept in it to give this team a punchers chance in the playoffs.  This team has no shot if they’re running out some of these guys, and they can’t only use 2 or 3 relievers.

Brutal.  Thanks for the catalog of relievers for whom we couldn’t find some spare change.  
 

The FO was so starstruck by C4 and being his third choice to the prom that they forgot the rest of the preparations for the dance also cost money.  
 

Pablo will need to throw a 9-inning shutout for the 2023 Twins to at least set aside the long, long, long postseason losing streak.  

[Nine of twelve]

5 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

The Twins will play 2x more games against low quality divisional opponents than a team like Seattle. That number jumps for the Jays in the East. Again, I don't see how that's only a slight advantage. Do you think MN would be tracking towards a mid 80s win total in the East or West?

I did some calculations based on how the Twins have done this season against each of the three AL divisions. The results: If we were in the East we would finish the season with two fewer wins. If we were in the West we would finish the season with one more win. So, as you can now see, the strength of schedule is of minimal consequence. This proves what I said, that the overwhelming advantage of being in the Central is the lower number of wins required to win the division, not the strength of schedule as you said.

[Squirrel]

14 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

My take on the deadline was: I have no idea who the front office is supposed to trade for, and it seems like they don't know either.

I disagree with this portion. I think they know a heck of a lot more than most of us on who and at what cost. That they didn’t make a trade doesn’t mean they didn’t know who. There could be many reasons they didn’t make a trade, as disappointing as that may be to some. As has been pointed out by others, the time to have built a BP was during the off season. That was the bigger disappointment for me. 

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

I did some calculations based on how the Twins have done this season against each of the three AL divisions. The results: If we were in the East we would finish the season with two fewer wins. If we were in the West we would finish the season with one more win. So, as you can now see, the strength of schedule is of minimal consequence. This proves what I said, that the overwhelming advantage of being in the Central is the lower number of wins required to win the division, not the strength of schedule as you said.

Compare that to how well other divisions did against our division. That might actually be more telling. 

[Riverbrian]

14 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

 

Lets be clear though this team has outperformed all expectations to start the season.  Anyone thinking this was the year to put all their chips in  . . . well I guess that would be the true idiocy.  I think the org when they feel they have a good shot will put their chips in,  we just hope that it hits.  

Whose expectations? Certainly not the expectations of the front office based on the starting pitching they had assembled. Certainly not the front office based on the off-season activity. 65 Million in 2023 payroll added for veteran talent. 

All the chips in? How about a couple of chips instead of all of them? If it's a couple of chips is it still true idiocy? 

The Org will put their chips in when they feel they have a good shot? Can this front office or any front office predict playoff outcomes on July 31. Can this front office or any front office predict injuries and slumps for the Twins and all of the other teams? Can they predict who they will face? Do they already know who will win the world series? 

This is really pretty simple: 

I don't know what other teams were asking. I assume the front office was engaged. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they made reasonable decisions based on whatever the price was. 

However... Buyers Buy and Seller Sell? Anything else is standing still. It was the last chance to supply for the journey ahead. Once the trade deadline passes... you will have to continue with what you have. 

 

 

[Nine of twelve]

46 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Compare that to how well other divisions did against our division. That might actually be more telling. 

Well, no, because the point of discussion was how the Twins’ record may or may not have been affected by being in a different division. So it’s only the Twins’ record that should be looked at. Of course to be completely precise if the Twins were in a different division that means the divisions would have to be realigned and one would need to take into account which teams would be in which divisions. Beyond that it would be necessary to wait until the end of the regular season. But those steps are not necessary to show that the strength of schedule has only a very small effect.

And further, the difference in the Twins’ overall record of only two wins in spite of the huge difference between the East division’s record and the Central division’s record reinforces how small the effect of strength of schedule actually is, at least as far as the Twins are concerned.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

15 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

They're on pace to win 84-85 games, which is pretty much where most people had them. The only reason they're going to hit that modest number of wins is because they've been blessed with one of the worst divisions of all time, and subsequently one of the easiest schedules in baseball. This club isn't outperforming expectations. 

In what world is a mid tier RP and/or a RH outfield bat pushing all your chips in? 

The average consensus of non Twins fans was this was a team that would finish 3rd in its division.  The average consensus was 78-82.  The average Twinsdaily projection was mid eighties.  Kirby - the twins are only +4 within the division.  So maybe they would be knocked down 1-2 to more wins if in another division.  As of now they make the playoffs because they are in the Central.  However it would not surprise me if they go on a bit of a run here. 

Your mid tier RP and RH bat would make a 1-2 at most 4 game difference.  This teams is still not on par with a Braves, Texas, or Baltimore lineup.    Now that doesn't mean they can't catch lightning in a bottle but the moves you are talking about are just window dressing.  They do those moves,  you lose this shiny object to be upset about but most likely you will find something else.   

In order to be on the level of a Baltimore Texas Atlanta you would have had to put a significant amount of chips in.  So effectively you are happy with the team (maybe 1-2 games difference) with your suggestions,  or you still think we are not a WS contender.  Now just being in the playoffs gives you a chip and a chair,  but I do think the Twins have enough pieces to create some magic this year.  its not something I am counting on, but something I could see occurring.  

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

46 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Whose expectations? Certainly not the expectations of the front office based on the starting pitching they had assembled. Certainly not the front office based on the off-season activity. 65 Million in 2023 payroll added for veteran talent. 

All the chips in? How about a couple of chips instead of all of them? If it's a couple of chips is it still true idiocy? 

The Org will put their chips in when they feel they have a good shot? Can this front office or any front office predict playoff outcomes on July 31. Can this front office or any front office predict injuries and slumps for the Twins and all of the other teams? Can they predict who they will face? Do they already know who will win the world series? 

This is really pretty simple: 

I don't know what other teams were asking. I assume the front office was engaged. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they made reasonable decisions based on whatever the price was. 

However... Buyers Buy and Seller Sell? Anything else is standing still. It was the last chance to supply for the journey ahead. Once the trade deadline passes... you will have to continue with what you have. 

 

 

What chips,  who are your trading and why and who are you getting and what needle are you moving?  Are you making any significant changes in the potential of the team winning a WS,  the answer is no.   So the question is  why spend any chips?Now I do think they engaged and I think the prices were too high or the players taken off the market.  As to the front office,  I think they want to put a solid team out there every year and give themselves a shot.  I think they have a much longer horizon than just this year on competitiveness. The other thing is last year we moved more chips in because we had more players at risk for the rule 5 draft.  This year I don't see a massive crunch.  

[Trov]

20 hours ago, Battle ur tail off said:

If there wasn't a hammer available I was fine with it. Before the season started was the time to add guys and they failed at it the last 2 years now. 

Who has been available during that time that you would have signed or traded for?  If you cannot point to a clear signing that was missed on, or an easy trade that was not made it is hard to say they failed. When you look at the top WAR relief guys from last year, most are no where near what they were.  Signing pen guys are a crap shoot.  One of our best relief guys was Brock Stewart, prior to his injury.  No one would have ever thought that because he has never been good.  Relief guys are so hard to predict overall from year to year, or even month to month or week to week.  Just look at Jax, he has been elite for weeks, then a train wreck for weeks.  Taylor Rogers last year first half he was amazing, since he has been not very good.  Hader for Padres last year was terrible after he was traded, this year back to elite. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

10 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I'm on both sides of this arguement. 

I honestly felt this team was built to win 90-92 games if the offense could come through. That was my biggest worry. How quickly would the kids be ready? Would Gallo and Kepler do anything? Would Polanco be his old self? It wasn't just losing Arraez, a trade I would make again. 

Well, we know how the offense was the first half. Probably cost us a half dozen games at least.

I wasn't crazy about the pen, but it was actually my secondary concern. I had a lot of hope for Moran and Alcala. I just didn't want to bank on them. I wasn't sure who, but I wanted at least one good, proven arm to add for depth on the back end. And when that didn't happen, I was frustrated, and confused. What frustrated me all the more was a couple veterans like Hoffman and Coulombe throwing very well and deserving of a spot to begin the season sent away. And while I haven't checked on them for a while, last time I looked they were having good years.

To be fair, the pen still was around league average for the first half. BUT, they could have been better with that ONE offseason addition, OR, sticking with a couple veteran fliers who looked good in ST. But they did neither. Isn't the whole point of brining in arms to audition to FIND a diamond? So why cast them aside when you find them? Stewart was a GIFT before his injury, but he could have been an ADD to a better pen, not a mid season savior!

Said it before, will say it again, the FO went about 90% IN for 2023 and then just STOPPED. A decent RH bat, ONE FA BP arm, actually KEEPING a BP flier that was looking good, would have pushed the offseason to 100%.

Past history shows BP arms at the deadline...not a closer, just a solid, quality arm....doesn't usually come at any great cost. Think Romo a few years ago. To do NOTHING, other than swap out Lopez for Floro, was inexcusable, especially knowing Stewart was headed to the IL. They needed to make a single, solid addition to help rectify the inattention of the offseason and mistakes coming out of ST.

I DO AGREE that paying any sort of high prospect level trade for a TOP arm would have been a mistake. But I don't think they had to necessarily make that kind of deal. They just needed some help.

GOING FORWARD, I honestly do see the potential for a pretty solid playoff pen. So I can agree with that perspective. Funderburk shows some promise, and could help, but I would have been auditioning him a good 2 weeks earlier. The temp move of Varland to the pen is smart. Reports are Stewart is feeling great, throwing hard, and might be back in a week or so. One of Ryan, Ober, Maeda will probably see pen time, especially if the Twins advance past the 1st round. Should that happen, Keuchel might enter the discussion as a veteran LH to piggyback off a short start for someone.

Yes, the playoff pen might actually turn out pretty good. I'll grant that. 

There's an old joke that comes to mind here that still makes me laugh to this day: "Know what burns my ass? A flame about 3 feet high". 

But what also burns it is an opportunity to build the best, most complete and dangerous team the Twins could have had in years if they had just invested a little more $ on a solid RH OF bat, and ONE hopefully smart FA for the pen, and/or held on to 1 or 2 veteran flier arms coming out of ST that might have made a HUGE difference to make our pen as strong as the starting staff was. Even WITH the misguided Gallo flier, it wouldn't have cost much more for those additions.

A couple HUGE missed opportunities that would have cost little. And the WORST thing that could have happened was missing on someone. THAT'S where having guys in AAA and the trade deadline come in to play. The ability to add or correct something that didn't turn out the way you hoped.

Doc,  I can agree I would have liked to seen any small move at the beginning of the season or after.  When we signed Gallo though there really wasn't a whole lot left if my memory serves.  I think the board was looking at 1 possible decent option.  

I think the twins should have kept Coloumbe.   And they could have picked up 1 other reliever.  However most likely we wouldn't have called up Brock Stewart or Funderburk.  If I have a concern with the organizations philosophy is they are very reluctant to give minor league relievers a shot in the big leagues it seems.  I am not sure of that reasoning.  I think a Funderburk and a Stewart,  will give you about what a Coloumbe and another solid reliever would give you.   I just think any of these moves are window dressing and don't significantly create the Twins into a contender.  However,  its a team that we have been able to cheer, bemoan, and gripe about all season long 😉, so in ownerships eyes,  the front office did their job for this year.  

[terrydactyls]

Who cares?  If the Twins had traded for a reliever, in my OPINION, they probably had a 50/50 chance at improving the team.  But at what cost.  No one who writes for or comments on TD articles actually sits in on trade negotiations.  But there are a lot of comments like "throw a few bucks" or "it wouldn't take much" that are being made.  All speculation.  And my most important point is (again this is my OPINION), what Hawkeye Bean Counter wrote was his OPINION.  To call it "idiocy" or telling him he's wrong is incorrect.  Opinion isn't right or wrong!  Just because you have a different OPINION, it doesn't make either opinion right or wrong.

[Woof Bronzer]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

1 wouldn't have made a difference. 

This idea that replacing a worse pitcher with a better one wouldn't make a difference is just so wild. 

[Woof Bronzer]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

 Lets be clear though this team has outperformed all expectations to start the season.  

Uh, what?  Vegas had them at 84 wins I think.  Given that the Central is much worse than anyone expected at the beginning of the year the Twins should have a much better record than they do (take out their record vs KC and OAK, two of the worst MLB teams ever assembled, and they're under .500).  Which doesn't matter, they're gonna win the division which is the regular season goal, and if they make a move in the playoffs none of it will matter anyhow.  But my goodness, I truly do not understand the need to revise history.  They won't take away your fan card for saying they Twins would be better with better relivers, or that the Twins have had a mediocre regular season.  

[TwinsDr2021]

46 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Who cares?  If the Twins had traded for a reliever, in my OPINION, they probably had a 50/50 chance at improving the team.  But at what cost.  No one who writes for or comments on TD articles actually sits in on trade negotiations.  But there are a lot of comments like "throw a few bucks" or "it wouldn't take much" that are being made.  All speculation.  And my most important point is (again this is my OPINION), what Hawkeye Bean Counter wrote was his OPINION.  To call it "idiocy" or telling him he's wrong is incorrect.  Opinion isn't right or wrong!  Just because you have a different OPINION, it doesn't make either opinion right or wrong.

IMO, there is a huge difference in writing an article and just commenting on somebody's opinion in a reply. When you write an article you put yourself out there for criticism and should be open to that opinion being call idiocy, he didn't call him an idiot which would IMO would have been unacceptable to personally attack somebody but criticize an opinion when you put yours in an article should be fair game.

[Fatbat]

The FO doesn’t have a great track record in trades so it made sense for them to not throw young developing talent out for a rental arm. The FO even said that they wanted the fixes in the team to come from within the organization.  We are a young team and we have a great farm system. We are finally built to do some damage this year and in the next few. Sit back and enjoy the ride.