Twins now in grace period with Diamond Sports group

[David HK]

Living offshore for the past years, I've been a mlb.tv customer, for better or worse- mostly worse.  But I wonder how or if this Bally Sports bankruptcy I've heard about will affect the Twinkie-cast.  

Anybody with knowledge of this?

Bueller?  Bueller?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/03/local-broadcasters-are-crucial-for-mlb-now-many-are-in-trouble

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, David HK said:

Living offshore for the past years, I've been a mlb.tv customer, for better or worse- mostly worse.  But I wonder how or if this Bally Sports bankruptcy I've heard about will affect the Twinkie-cast.  

Anybody with knowledge of this?

Bueller?  Bueller?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/03/local-broadcasters-are-crucial-for-mlb-now-many-are-in-trouble

No, but that hasn’t stopped us from discussing. Links below

MLB has stated if push comes to shove, it will air games on mlb.tv without blackout restrictions.

 

 

 

[Mortimerkenny21]

Ok so maybe I'm not very wise to this. So, it sounds like BSN with still broadcast the games if you have direct TV. But is it still beneficial to buy the BSN app, and with that app can you log in with your Roku device? Or does it only work on a smart phone?? I have no clue, I would just really like to watch games this year.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

39 minutes ago, Mortimerkenny21 said:

Ok so maybe I'm not very wise to this. So, it sounds like BSN with still broadcast the games if you have direct TV. But is it still beneficial to buy the BSN app, and with that app can you log in with your Roku device? Or does it only work on a smart phone?? I have no clue, I would just really like to watch games this year.

The last update I saw was the Twins did not have streaming rights with Bally. Don’t bother with the App.

[Mortimerkenny21]

8 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The last update I saw was the Twins did not have streaming rights with Bally. Don’t bother with the App.

Thank you! And dang it anyways!

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Mortimerkenny21 said:

Ok so maybe I'm not very wise to this. So, it sounds like BSN with still broadcast the games if you have direct TV. But is it still beneficial to buy the BSN app, and with that app can you log in with your Roku device? Or does it only work on a smart phone?? I have no clue, I would just really like to watch games this year.

The Bally Sports app does not broadcast Twins games. The Twins have not agreed with Bally to allow it. I wish they would do so just for this season but given how badly Bally has screwed over the Twins in recent years, I can't entirely fault the club for telling them to get lost.

[Brock Beauchamp]

30 minutes ago, Mortimerkenny21 said:

Thank you! And dang it anyways!

Also, Fubo now streams Bally Sports North and it's a WAY better service than DirecTV Stream.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

20 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Also, Fubo now streams Bally Sports North and it's a WAY better service than DirecTV Stream.

And no contract, so it’s $15 per month cheaper, but if you only want the service during the Twins season it’s about $1100 cheaper over the life of the 2 year Directv contract.

[CoasterProductions]

22 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The last update I saw was the Twins did not have streaming rights with Bally. Don’t bother with the App.

That is interesting because I have the app and have been able to watch all the Twins games so far this season.

[August J Gloop]

28 minutes ago, CoasterProductions said:

That is interesting because I have the app and have been able to watch all the Twins games so far this season.

Did you buy the BSN stream directly or did you authenticate with your other service creds? The second way has no blackouts, the first as far as anyone knows can't carry the Twins games live. Considering how well run BSN is, it isn't beyond comprehension that they got the twins to agree and just didn't make a thing out of it or are just violating the agreement anyway. 

[howeda7]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, Mortimerkenny21 said:

Ok so maybe I'm not very wise to this. So, it sounds like BSN with still broadcast the games if you have direct TV. But is it still beneficial to buy the BSN app, and with that app can you log in with your Roku device? Or does it only work on a smart phone?? I have no clue, I would just really like to watch games this year.

If you have Bally's via DirecTV or a cable provider, you can (I think) watch the games on the Bally's app. But it is not part of their separate streaming plan that you pay for. You have to log-in via your cable provider to watch the Twins.

[howeda7]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:25 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

The Bally Sports app does not broadcast Twins games. The Twins have not agreed with Bally to allow it. I wish they would do so just for this season but given how badly Bally has screwed over the Twins in recent years, I can't entirely fault the club for telling them to get lost.

It's fair to say the Twins and Diamond/Bally's are not on speaking terms. Especially since they aren't paying.

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

It's fair to say the Twins and Diamond/Bally's are not on speaking terms. Especially since they aren't paying.

True. Bally's might not be broadcasting Twins games at all as soon as the Yankees series.

[beckmt]

Twins contract ends after this season, and according to news reports are reluctant to resign with them.  Twins were now listed as 1 of the teams not paid as required.  This puts them in the 15 day grace period after which according to the story I saw, MLB will attempt to reclaim the rights.  Diamond Sports has according to the story I saw paid 8 teams in MLB.  Should be interesting.

[CoasterProductions]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:31 AM, August J Gloop said:

Did you buy the BSN stream directly or did you authenticate with your other service creds? The second way has no blackouts, the first as far as anyone knows can't carry the Twins games live. Considering how well run BSN is, it isn't beyond comprehension that they got the twins to agree and just didn't make a thing out of it or are just violating the agreement anyway. 

I used my service creds so that is probably why.

[stringer bell]

I get Bally Sports North and understood that the bulk of Twins games would be on Bally Sports North this year. That was before the news that BSN didn't pay the Twins moneys owed them. What I'm reading is that MLB is saying they will take the broadcasts if Bally/Diamond doesn't pay up. I don't know how they will transmit the broadcasts so I'm kind of in the dark as to how (or if) I'll see Twins games.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

New wrinkle, the MLB filed for emergency payment to the Twins and Guardians. Odd they didn’t file for the diamondbacks too
https://theathletic.com/4385805/2023/04/05/mlb-diamond-sports-bankruptcy-twins-guardians/

[nicksaviking]

22 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

New wrinkle, the MLB filed for emergency payment to the Twins and Guardians. Odd they didn’t file for the diamondbacks too
https://theathletic.com/4385805/2023/04/05/mlb-diamond-sports-bankruptcy-twins-guardians/

So while this news is fantastic for a guy who can't currently watch the Twins, this still angers me in two ways.

Why out of all of their broadcast deals, did they decide the Twins were a club they wouldn't pay?

How in the hell do the Twins make less from their broadcast deal than Cleveland?

I don't have The Athletic, so on the off chance none of what I said makes sense, I was going off of the Cliff's Notes version on MLBTR.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/mlb-seeking-overdue-rights-payments-from-diamond-for-twins-guardians-broadcasts.html

[Vanimal46]

27 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

So while this news is fantastic for a guy who can't currently watch the Twins, this still angers me in two ways.

Why out of all of their broadcast deals, did they decide the Twins were a club they wouldn't pay?

How in the hell do the Twins make less from their broadcast deal than Cleveland?

I don't have The Athletic, so on the off chance none of what I said makes sense, I was going off of the Cliff's Notes version on MLBTR.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/mlb-seeking-overdue-rights-payments-from-diamond-for-twins-guardians-broadcasts.html

These 3 missed payments appear to be strategic on Diamond Sports’ end. Twins are on the final year of the contract and have shown zero interest in negotiating further; nor should they. Arizona’s deal is wildly bloated as is Cleveland for the low amount of people watching. They probably prefer to have these contracts voided. 

[danielp19653]

24 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Why out of all of their broadcast deals, did they decide the Twins were a club they wouldn't pay?

How in the hell do the Twins make less from their broadcast deal than Cleveland?

 

My guess is the answer to the first is that the Twins are in the last year of their deal and have refused to sell Bally the streaming rights. Bally is probably just content to let that play out knowing the Twins were gone next year anyways and use the money on one of the teams with a longer contract. 

Second question I believe the Cleveland signed a TV deal a lot more recently than the Twins, similar to the Padres who have a similar viewership ratings but got paid WAY more because it was more recent. Cleveland was one of the teams along with the Padres who are losing money for Bally so obviously those contracts didn't work out great and hurt the Twins chances of pulling in a decent deal next offseason. The Twins were listed as profitable at their annual cost though so hopefully they can get a decent tv deal somewhere to bump the revenue a bit.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

So while this news is fantastic for a guy who can't currently watch the Twins, this still angers me in two ways.

Why out of all of their broadcast deals, did they decide the Twins were a club they wouldn't pay?

How in the hell do the Twins make less from their broadcast deal than Cleveland?

I don't have The Athletic, so on the off chance none of what I said makes sense, I was going off of the Cliff's Notes version on MLBTR.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/mlb-seeking-overdue-rights-payments-from-diamond-for-twins-guardians-broadcasts.html

The Athletic article didn’t specify, but here’s a phrase that stands out;

”Diamond also has not paid the Diamondbacks, but that occurred just prior to the commencement of the bankruptcy, so the team instead is listed as a creditor on the Chapter 11 petition.

Several teams noted in the motion that they reserved their rights to join in the motion if Diamond also fails to pay them in the future. These teams are the Diamondbacks, Detroit Tigers, Milwaukee Brewers, Tampa Rays and Texas Rangers.”

so who didn’t get paid appears to be already past due invoices. The invoices have different due dates.

[nicksaviking]

27 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

These 3 missed payments appear to be strategic on Diamond Sports’ end. Twins are on the final year of the contract and have shown zero interest in negotiating further; nor should they. Arizona’s deal is wildly bloated as is Cleveland for the low amount of people watching. They probably prefer to have these contracts voided. 

Makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is why the Twins couldn't pull of a bloated deal as well. This stuff all seems to be on the Dave St. Peter side of things. I usually could care less about the off field stuff, but he better pull his weight with the next TV contract because at some point the Twins aren't going to consistently carry a higher payroll than teams like Cleveland if they aren't making more money than them in broadcasting. The Twins seem to always be on the low end of broadcasting revenue, even when they sign a new deal.

[Twodogs]

Does this mean Twins broadcasts will be dropped?

[Vanimal46]

19 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is why the Twins couldn't pull of a bloated deal as well. This stuff all seems to be on the Dave St. Peter side of things. I usually could care less about the off field stuff, but he better pull his weight with the next TV contract because at some point the Twins aren't going to consistently carry a higher payroll than teams like Cleveland if they aren't making more money than them in broadcasting. The Twins seem to always be on the low end of broadcasting revenue, even when they sign a new deal.

Well the days of large TV contracts are likely over. Teams will have to explore additional revenue streams. 

[nicksaviking]

23 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

Does this mean Twins broadcasts will be dropped?

No, MLB says they can handle broadcasting if Bally doesn't pay up. This presumably would be free or dirt cheap, but I suppose greed could take over their decisions between now and then. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is why the Twins couldn't pull off a bloated deal as well. This stuff all seems to be on the Dave St. Peter side of things. I usually could care less about the off field stuff, but he better pull his weight with the next TV contract because at some point the Twins aren't going to consistently carry a higher payroll than teams like Cleveland if they aren't making more money than them in broadcasting. The Twins seem to always be on the low end of broadcasting revenue, even when they sign a new deal.

Sinclair bought FSN, the agreement was already in place. At one point, a legacy of the VS1 merger, the Pohlads owned a minority stake in FSN. The TV contract likely reflected that

[wsnydes]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is why the Twins couldn't pull of a bloated deal as well. This stuff all seems to be on the Dave St. Peter side of things. I usually could care less about the off field stuff, but he better pull his weight with the next TV contract because at some point the Twins aren't going to consistently carry a higher payroll than teams like Cleveland if they aren't making more money than them in broadcasting. The Twins seem to always be on the low end of broadcasting revenue, even when they sign a new deal.

Is the Twins deal the oldest of the three?  Was it agreed to before the value of those deals exploded?  Because that would be my guess.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

The Twins deal end after this year,  and the Twins are not interested in renegotiating the contract.  Thus why the Twins were the last option.  If the Twins continue to play well,  Bally's may decide to pay up,  but as of now I think they let them go to MLB.  

[Jocko87]

I like the term "Grace Period" but that's not what my bank calls it.

Hopeful this gets worked out well although I doubt it will be quick.  If they aren't negotiating with a Pohlad owned company anymore it going to take a while to sort through and set new values that don't have the in house discounts and get a good revenue model.

I suspect their negotiation strategy on the business side is very similar to what we have seen on the player side over the last few years.  Patience to the point we think they aren't doing anything then pop up with something pretty good.  It hasn't always been a great deal when they run up to the start of season deadline with players but there isn't an real deadline looming here, the games will be on TV one way of the other so the Twins have a strong position.  I would expect them to play some hardball.

[lecroy24fan]

Why would any team in the last year of a deal re-up with a company that will cease to exist in a year? There is a very good chance they don't exist by the end of the year. I get there really is no local option that isn't broadcast but