MLBPA takes steps toward unionizing minor league players

[Squirrel]

As far as I'm concerned, it's about time; long over due. Still a ways to go ... the players have to vote, and then we'll see ... 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-players-association-takes-historic-step-toward-unionizing-minor-league-baseball-players/

[bean5302]

Should be interesting to see how things pan out. MiLB is obviously an enormously different animal than other leagues because of the sheer scale of players.

[Game7-91]

Good.

[jkcarew]

Milb is more conducive to a ‘traditional’ functioning union than is MLB, where the union has done little more than negotiate on behalf of the star players for 50 years now. It’s hilarious because more money going to the minor leagues is the LAST thing the current MLBPA really wants to see. But the political ball is out of the bag, and the number of affiliated teams and players have been cut way back…so, it’s finally going to happen.

[DocBauer]

I think this wonderful news and long overdue. My one concern might be dues for the union, and I really have no clue what those dues might cost. The recent raise in wages and provided housing for the majority of milb has been a nice change, again overdue. And I would dare so being unionized would further increase wages and allow for payment during instructs and the such. So covering union tithes may not be a big deal. 

I had forgotten about Manfred's rather ridiculous comments. (Shaking my head). Now, to be fair, if your housing is paid for during the season, and if the club provides 2 quality meals per day, I don't think the players are necessarily at a poverty level with the recent raises. But how good is the housing? What quality are the 2 meals per day? And I think those are important considerations going forward. And while the current raises in pay aren't insignificant, there has to be room to bump those salaries, especially in the lower levels. Additionally, the parent clubs aren't subsidizing as many players/teams as they used to. And while some milb clubs are in smaller locales, where the cost of living is undoubtedly smaller, some are in fairly large communities. Think St Paul for instance. 

This is a good start and really pleased to see the MLBPA take this first step. I hope they are honest and earnest in their attempts. Sure sounds like they are. 

[Game7-91]

2 hours ago, DocBauer said:

if your housing is paid for during the season, and if the club provides 2 quality meals per day, I don't think the players are necessarily at a poverty level with the recent raises. But how good is the housing? What quality are the 2 meals per day? And I think those are important considerations going forward.

 

2 hours ago, DocBauer said:

And while some milb clubs are in smaller locales, where the cost of living is undoubtedly smaller, some are in fairly large communities.

Housing and food are taxable benefits. Players are probably paying their entire social security tax on the fair market value of those benefits. Takes a chunk out if their cash salary. But a federal district court earlier this year ruled MiLB are employees, not contractors, of both MLB franchises and MiLB affiliates. And that changes everything.  

Now that MLB is losing the legal battles, it is in their best interest to negotiate on wage and benefits for all MiLB players,  regardless of where they play or their draft signing bonus. And pay a decent enough wage to not have to screw around with the arcane tax liabilities around housing and food allowances. MLB axed 42 affiliate teams and 900 players two yrs ago, they can afford to support those who remain and then some. Should have been doing it 50 yrs ago. 

[4twinsJA]

I am all for improving pay and benefits for minor leaguers. However, I think it will lead to further contraction of minors. Owners will not want to spend the money.

[Shaitan]

Such a complex topic, given that minor league teams are affiliated but still aren't always owned by the parent team.

This is overdue, of course. I'm just continually in awe at how this whole system works. Or mabye doesn't. I'm legit curious if any MiLB team makes money or if they're just a farm for the parent org.

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, Shaitan said:

Such a complex topic, given that minor league teams are affiliated but still aren't always owned by the parent team.

This is overdue, of course. I'm just continually in awe at how this whole system works. Or mabye doesn't. I'm legit curious if any MiLB team makes money or if they're just a farm for the parent org.

Well, the MiLB team owners are willing to post millions or even tens of millions of dollars to become an affiliate. No official numbers were released, but the St. Paul Saints supposedly posted something like $20MM. Since MiLB teams do not pay player salaries or benefits, their costs are fairly limited in the grand scheme of things. They still have stadium operating costs and travel costs, etc, but with ticket sales and concessions, I'd imagine they do okay.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Minor leaguers voted and have approved unionization. Now it's on to MLB and the real fireworks begin.

https://theathletic.com/3568822/2022/09/06/minor-league-union-mlb-mlbpa/

[Cap'n Piranha]

It will be fascinating to see what share of the vote MiLB gets should they actually join the Union.  It can't possibly be anywhere near 50%, otherwise MLB could instantly propose a 10x pay increase for all MiLB players in return for a $100M hard cap and $5M max salary at the MLB level.  As such, I think this is better categorized as the MLBPA agreeing (if approved) to represent MiLB players in absence of a better option, rather than the MLBPA allowing MiLB players to join.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On another note, I'm also curious to see how far down the representation goes?  Is it just the "A" levels, or are complex and Dominican leagues included?  Also, I wonder if there comes a point where the owners decide to blow up a large portion of the MiLB system as it currently exists, and reformulate with wholly-owned teams.

[Vanimal46]

13 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

On another note, I'm also curious to see how far down the representation goes?  Is it just the "A" levels, or are complex and Dominican leagues included?  Also, I wonder if there comes a point where the owners decide to blow up a large portion of the MiLB system as it currently exists, and reformulate with wholly-owned teams.

I would assume this is the route they’ll go if MiLB joins the union. It was already trending this way cutting a number of minor league teams. One day I think we’ll see 4 levels. An international complex league, 1 A ball, 1 AA, and 1 AAA. 

[Eris]

Considering how the MLBPA has repeatedly sold out on the minor leaguers over the past years, I think the minor league players would benefit by by being in a union distinctly separate from the MLBPA. 
 

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

I would assume this is the route they’ll go if MiLB joins the union. It was already trending this way cutting a number of minor league teams. One day I think we’ll see 4 levels. An international complex league, 1 A ball, 1 AA, and 1 AAA. 

I meant more the owners cut ties with all current affiliated teams, and partner instead with some of the teams they just withdrew affiliation from.  All those stadiums are theoretically still standing.  Or, every MLB team could establish a complex in both Arizona and Florida, and have two teams based in each state.

[ashbury]

37 minutes ago, Eris said:

Considering how the MLBPA has repeatedly sold out on the minor leaguers over the past years, I think the minor league players would benefit by by being in a union distinctly separate from the MLBPA.

If they don't like the results, they can go on to set up their own union.  This gets them halfway to that, if it's the ultimate destiny, instead of all in one go.

Or maybe they'll find out it suits them in the long run.

[Rosterman]

All players should be under a contract of sorts. Paid to come to spring training. Housing allowances at worst in the minors (believe minor league teams have to supply housing). Not sure how elaborate that needs to be since you can work out at the stadium, eat at least one, if not two meals. 

You should be paid more for any work done at an extended spring training.

But should have a decent salaried/hourly wage. You do, after all, have to devote yourself fulltime to baseball during the season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

16 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

It will be fascinating to see what share of the vote MiLB gets should they actually join the Union.  It can't possibly be anywhere near 50%, otherwise MLB could instantly propose a 10x pay increase for all MiLB players in return for a $100M hard cap and $5M max salary at the MLB level.  As such, I think this is better categorized as the MLBPA agreeing (if approved) to represent MiLB players in absence of a better option, rather than the MLBPA allowing MiLB players to join.

The devil is going to be in the details, for sure. I think the most likely solution is to operate as two semi-separate unions with overlapping goals. There are so many instances where MiLB and MLB don't see eye-to-eye that operating as a single entity could be really difficult.

[DJL44]

The single-A complex leagues aren't going away. The teams have too much invested in their spring training facilities. They may not have good attendance but the teams want to start recent draft picks at the complex so they can use all of the fancy training tools they have.

AA and AAA teams are making money. Those teams are located in medium sized (and some large) cities and are fairly popular entertainment locally.

High-A might get squeezed if salaries get too high. I assume the MLBPA will do its due diligence to find out how much they can raise pay without losing teams.

[Squirrel]

And then there’s this, which adds some strength to the cause:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34541826/major-league-baseball-players-association-joins-afl-cio

[Brock Beauchamp]

*blank stare*

Are we in the multiverse?

 

[ashbury]

14 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

*blank stare*

Are we in the multiverse?

 

Don't worry.  MLB's attempt to strong arm as a done deal the rule changes discussed elsewhere on this site, reportedly without players association buy-in, remains in character.

[Brock Beauchamp]

17 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Don't worry.  MLB's attempt to strong arm as a done deal the rule changes discussed elsewhere on this site, reportedly without players association buy-in, remains in character.

To be fair, the players are just flat-out wrong about not voting for the pitch clock at the very least. 

[bean5302]

It does not surprise me that MLB owners are on board with MiLB organizing. As I argued in the H2H debate, it will sow dissention in the player ranks and create a more difficult bargaining position for players.

In addition, the unionizing will block a lot of the avenues for legal pursuits which have cost MLB a lot of money recently and give MLB the opportunity to more forcefully control things like signing bonuses vs. "slot" bonuses, etc.

Honestly, with MLB's special exemption, having all the players in a union just streamlines administrative burdens.

[bean5302]

59 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Don't worry.  MLB's attempt to strong arm as a done deal the rule changes discussed elsewhere on this site, reportedly without players association buy-in, remains in character.

The MLBPA just automatically opposes everything owners propose as a matter of principle. The owners could propose saving a beached whale and the MLBPA would sign a petition to block it...

[Game7-91]

This is getting interestinger and interestinger:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/mlb-recognizes-mlbpa-union-representation-minor-leaguers.html

[Brandon]

I wonder how much the minor-leaguer's pay will go up as a result of this?  I also wonder if MLB will fold any of the under producing leagues and go to a system of just A/AA/AAA with no low A and high A.  

[bean5302]

12 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I wonder how much the minor-leaguer's pay will go up as a result of this?  I also wonder if MLB will fold any of the under producing leagues and go to a system of just A/AA/AAA with no low A and high A.  

Tough to say how the pay will change, but I would suspect slot bonus' becoming guaranteed and slot bonus amounts vs. player salary will be the major sources of friction.

MLB has already taken a huge backlash for closing down 42 MiLB franchises, coinciding with the smaller amateur draft. I think the amateur draft would have to be cut back further in order to contract more MiLB teams like that and affiliates now have 10 year agreements instead of 2-4 year agreements. I think it would be a huge mess for MLB to try and contract MiLB affiliations again right now.