The Trade Deadline - Who Stays, Who Goes?

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:12 PM, DJL44 said:

Can't say I'm worried about that at all. I also don't worry about lightning strikes or bear attacks in my neighborhood.

You cut my sentence off at a comma, never a good thing to do.  I'm worried they go 11-4 out of the break, WHICH causes the FO to not trade anyone.  The fear is on the second part, as I don't think it's super likely they go 11-4 out of the break, but nor is it impossible.  At the time of writing, the Twins had 8 games against Detroit, 4 against the White Sox, and 3 against the Angels in those 15 games. Is 7-1 against Det, 2-1 against LA, and 2-2 against Chi really so far-fetched?  Maybe a 20% chance?  Even if only a 1% chance, I still doubt that lightning strikes/bears attack 3-4 times a year in your neighborhood, and if it does, I bet you would worry about it.

[Vanimal46]

I think this is the right call. 

[dxpavelka]

On 7/15/2021 at 12:34 PM, mike8791 said:

Why trade Simmons?  We have no one nearly ready to take his place and with the emphasis on pitching, they will never spend $ on one of the elite SS.  Most analyses I've read conclude Gordon is not a major league SS.  Lewis is also looked at as questionnable at SS.  Might as well plug probably the most important defensive position with known quantity like Simmons.

I have pretty much the same response to trading Berrios, Rogers or Buxton.  Trading any of them immediately puts you in the position of needing to find a similar level replacement.  Something we do not have in the pipeline any time soon.

 

[bean5302]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:16 PM, RpR said:

For those who think bringing up -- AAA Wunder Kinder -- is what the Twins should do, check online for the article on Detroits  "elite prospect"  Nomar Mazara.

'

Did you mean somebody else? Nomar Mazara is a 26 year old 6 year MLB veteran who Texas traded to the White Sox in 2020 for MiLB positional depth. Mazara was then was non tendered by the White Sox last December. After two months of job searching, the Tigers picked Mazra up on a 1 year $1.75MM contract.

Mazara is not a prospect and he's not going to be anything other than organizational depth on a competitive team.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Did you mean somebody else? Nomar Mazara is a 26 year old 6 year MLB veteran who Texas traded to the White Sox in 2020 for MiLB positional depth. Mazara was then was non tendered by the White Sox last December. After two months of job searching, the Tigers picked Mazra up on a 1 year $1.75MM contract.

Mazara is not a prospect and he's not going to be anything other than organizational depth on a competitive team.

I am just saying what the article on MSN sports said about supposed elite prospects; the article said he was not what was expected.

Tigers designate one-time elite prospect Nomar Mazara for assignment (msn.com)

[bean5302]

While it's certainly true that many prospects don't pan out, teams still need to draft and develop prospects with the expectation those players will eventually supplant existing veterans. The Twins are going to have to bring up prospects one way or another, but doing it during a lost season like this one is considered by many to be the least risky way of doing it. Unfortunately, with only 26 roster spots available at the trade deadline, making room requires taking risks on letting existing talent go to other teams.

[GoBlue48]

Time to look also at the manager and his coaching staff, not just the players.

[nicksaviking]

On 7/15/2021 at 12:49 PM, yeahyabetcha said:

So?  If you get nothing for him and have to pay most all of his contract anyways, why not keep him as he is the only real SS on the roster.  I don’t quite understand the fascination with trading players so we can see AAA guys play.  Wouldn’t just going to a Saints game serve the same purpose?

If Jorge Polanco can play poor SS on two teams that won the division, I don't see why he can't play poor SS on a team that absolutely nobody cares about.

[yeahyabetcha]

37 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If Jorge Polanco can play poor SS on two teams that won the division, I don't see why he can't play poor SS on a team that absolutely nobody cares about.

The Twins have determined Polanco is not an everyday major league SS .  I would hope that whatever moves they make are in an effort to make the team better.   And I still care about the team.

[nicksaviking]

37 minutes ago, yeahyabetcha said:

The Twins have determined Polanco is not an everyday major league SS .  I would hope that whatever moves they make are in an effort to make the team better.   And I still care about the team.

Well the idea of trading a rental player in a down year is to make the team better in a winning year.

But I've seen Simmons swing a bat. Removing him from the lineup is making the team better. Polanco is a better overall player, by a mile.

[Seth Stohs]

So, I put a lot of players, more than I would have guessed... 

I think they'll deal: Cruz, Happ, Colome, Robles, Donaldson, Pineda and Simmons. Won't get a lot for any of them, but might as well get what they can. 

I think Berrios is 50/50 right now... 

I think Tyler Duffey is another interesting case. 

[nicksaviking]

I think jobs are on the line next season so they'll hang onto Berrios, Buxton, Rogers and Duffey in an attempt to win next year and then deal with the repercussions of those decisions the following year assuming they will have built up enough good will to stick around.

[yeahyabetcha]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Well the idea of trading a rental player in a down year is to make the team better in a winning year.

But I've seen Simmons swing a bat. Removing him from the lineup is making the team better. Polanco is a better overall player, by a mile.

Some people value defense more than you do I guess.  Polanco is a better player at this point of their careers, but will never be  better SS.  If able to get a real prospect, trade Simmons.  But if not, why bother.

[AceWrigley]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:49 PM, yeahyabetcha said:

So?  If you get nothing for him and have to pay most all of his contract anyways, why not keep him as he is the only real SS on the roster.  I don’t quite understand the fascination with trading players so we can see AAA guys play.  Wouldn’t just going to a Saints game serve the same purpose?

Trading Simmons at the deadline doesn't mean we'll have to cover any more of his contract unless we want a better return in the deal. Simmons is a free agent at the end of the year, we can sign him again for next year if we feel that is the thing to do.

[Brock Beauchamp]

14 hours ago, yeahyabetcha said:

Some people value defense more than you do I guess.  Polanco is a better player at this point of their careers, but will never be  better SS.  If able to get a real prospect, trade Simmons.  But if not, why bother.

I can't speak for others but I'd find it far more interesting to watch Gordon and analyze his future potential (or lack thereof) with the Twins in 2022 and beyond than watch Simmons go through the motions on a bad baseball team.

Besides, there's something to be said for giving veterans on expiring contracts the chance to compete for a postseason berth on a decent team.

[wsnydes]

23 hours ago, yeahyabetcha said:

The Twins have determined Polanco is not an everyday major league SS .  I would hope that whatever moves they make are in an effort to make the team better.   And I still care about the team.

 

14 hours ago, yeahyabetcha said:

Some people value defense more than you do I guess.  Polanco is a better player at this point of their careers, but will never be  better SS.  If able to get a real prospect, trade Simmons.  But if not, why bother.

We don't have to watch Polanco play a subpar SS every day as long as Nick Gordon is on the roster.  There is value in giving him reps too.  It doesn't have to be purely transactional in the case of Simmons.

[yeahyabetcha]

4 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I can't speak for others but I'd find it far more interesting to watch Gordon and analyze his future potential (or lack thereof) with the Twins in 2022 and beyond than watch Simmons go through the motions on a bad baseball team.

Besides, there's something to be said for giving veterans on expiring contracts the chance to compete for a postseason berth on a decent team.

A couple of things…first, if Simmons or any of the expiring contract veterans request a trade or if the return is value, by all means make the trade.

Second, I have never actually seen Gordon play SS, but most reports I have read and the fact that the Twins don’t let him play there now, suggests to me that they do not view him as a major league SS.  The minors do mean something, if he was garbage there, what changes now to make people think he will succeed in the majors.  They have seen him at SS many times and should know what they have.  I am actually more interested in the kid from AA.  Sounds like he has a glove, but maybe not the bat.

Lastly, and I know this an unpopular opinion, but I think trying to win even when not in the race is a good thing.  Both from a fan’s perspective, and the team psyche, if there is such a thing.  Trading just for the sake of trading, or for saving some cash just is not a path I like.

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 minutes ago, yeahyabetcha said:

A couple of things…first, if Simmons or any of the expiring contract veterans request a trade or if the return is value, by all means make the trade.

Second, I have never actually seen Gordon play SS, but most reports I have read and the fact that the Twins don’t let him play there now, suggests to me that they do not view him as a major league SS.  The minors do mean something, if he was garbage there, what changes now to make people think he will succeed in the majors.  They have seen him at SS many times and should know what they have.  I am actually more interested in the kid from AA.  Sounds like he has a glove, but maybe not the bat.

Lastly, and I know this an unpopular opinion, but I think trying to win even when not in the race is a good thing.  Both from a fan’s perspective, and the team psyche, if there is such a thing.  Trading just for the sake of trading, or for saving some cash just is not a path I like.

I also have very little faith in Gordon becoming a starting SS at the MLB level but I’m very interested to see if he has the potential to be a decent super-sub that can occasionally play shortstop.

And the only way we find that out is to let him play. 

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, yeahyabetcha said:

A couple of things…first, if Simmons or any of the expiring contract veterans request a trade or if the return is value, by all means make the trade.

Second, I have never actually seen Gordon play SS, but most reports I have read and the fact that the Twins don’t let him play there now, suggests to me that they do not view him as a major league SS.  The minors do mean something, if he was garbage there, what changes now to make people think he will succeed in the majors.  They have seen him at SS many times and should know what they have.  I am actually more interested in the kid from AA.  Sounds like he has a glove, but maybe not the bat.

Lastly, and I know this an unpopular opinion, but I think trying to win even when not in the race is a good thing.  Both from a fan’s perspective, and the team psyche, if there is such a thing.  Trading just for the sake of trading, or for saving some cash just is not a path I like.

No one trades just to trade. They do so in the, even tiny, chance to make the team better in the future. I doubt they have a SS in the org that can even be up next year, so they'll likely have to sign another next year....

[yeahyabetcha]

14 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I also have very little faith in Gordon becoming a starting SS at the MLB level but I’m very interested to see if he has the potential to be a decent super-sub that can occasionally play shortstop.

And the only way we find that out is to let him play. 

I am ok with letting him play as the super sub, that is how I see him helping the team next year anyways.  But let’s just say Simmons and Donaldson are both moved, are you really looking forward to seeing Gordon, Polanco, Arraez and Sano playing the left side of the infield??  I think both you and the Twins know that is not the path forward for this team.

[yeahyabetcha]

26 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one trades just to trade. They do so in the, even tiny, chance to make the team better in the future. I doubt they have a SS in the org that can even be up next year, so they'll likely have to sign another next year....

I know it is the Pohlads money and not mine, but trading Simmons and his contract for a tiny chance prospect is a trade for the sake of making a trade.  Many would probably do it , but I wouldn’t.

[Danchat]

Quote

Unsurprisingly, Twins southpaw Taylor Rogers “is very popular on the trade market,” MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets.  There is enough interest that the reliever has a “good chance to be dealt” even though Minnesota is reportedly reluctant to move players who are under team control beyond this season.  Rogers has one more arbitration year remaining before free agency in the 2022-23 offseason.

From MLBTradeRumors, It sounds like teams are willing to pay a high price for Rogers...

[Dman]

10 hours ago, Danchat said:

From MLBTradeRumors, It sounds like teams are willing to pay a high price for Rogers...

It makes sense to me as elite lefty relievers have cost as much at the deadline as starters.  The Twins have no need for Rogers this year but certainly could use him next year but after that I doubt they would\could sign him as a top team would likely outbid them so if the return is right I think they should do it.  They need to get something back that they need though not just slow footed outfielders or 1st base or second base.  Up the middle or more pitching would likely be worth the trade.

If they do trade Rogers not sure what they plan to do to replace him.  We don't have much for Lefties in the entire system. Maybe they turn Smeltzer into a reliever? Although we do have some guys to look at in Moran, Hamilton and Cano they are far from sure things to make the transition.  Should have money to spend on relievers next year as well 8M of which would have been needed to keep Rogers if I understand that correctly.

[Brock Beauchamp]

41 minutes ago, Dman said:

Should have money to spend on relievers next year as well 8M of which would have been needed to keep Rogers if I understand that correctly.

Rogers is making $6m this season so $8m for 2022 is a good estimate.

[Danchat]

Quote

Byron Buxton has rejected a contract extension with the Twins according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic.

The timing of this is important considering the trade deadline is around the corner. It's possible the Twins will hold onto Buxton, who is due to become a free agent after the 2022 season, but the door certainly seems to have been kicked open for a potential trade. It should be an exciting week.

I don't think he gets traded this week, but I think it might happen over the winter.

[twinssporto]

I hope we don't let Arraez go. He is a pure hitter. He's young and will only get better with age.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Duffey hasn’t pitched in several days. I recall this with Pressly in 2018 as well, him not coming into games you would expect him to.

the radio guys said Duffey came in to the dugout either between innings yesterday or during someone else’s pitching change, stomped on the mound or something on the way, and then kept going to the dugout. It was kind of unclear what had happened but its good for gossip. Anyone see this in person?

[Battle ur tail off]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:06 AM, Dman said:

It makes sense to me as elite lefty relievers have cost as much at the deadline as starters.  The Twins have no need for Rogers this year but certainly could use him next year but after that I doubt they would\could sign him as a top team would likely outbid them so if the return is right I think they should do it.  They need to get something back that they need though not just slow footed outfielders or 1st base or second base.  Up the middle or more pitching would likely be worth the trade.

If they do trade Rogers not sure what they plan to do to replace him.  We don't have much for Lefties in the entire system. Maybe they turn Smeltzer into a reliever? Although we do have some guys to look at in Moran, Hamilton and Cano they are far from sure things to make the transition.  Should have money to spend on relievers next year as well 8M of which would have been needed to keep Rogers if I understand that correctly.

I agree, if they trade Rogers, they need back a guy that projects as a stud. I want a top 30 MLB prospect for him. Quality, not quantity. 

[Danchat]

3 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

I agree, if they trade Rogers, they need back a guy that projects as a stud. I want a top 30 MLB prospect for him. Quality, not quantity. 

I don’t think there’s any way they’re getting that... teams are hesitant to move their best prospects except for blockbuster deals. If you include Berrios, then yah that’d make sense.

[Battle ur tail off]

12 minutes ago, Danchat said:

I don’t think there’s any way they’re getting that... teams are hesitant to move their best prospects except for blockbuster deals. If you include Berrios, then yah that’d make sense.

Then there is no need to move him. He is a top reliever and we have the worst bullpen on the planet. 

Quit giving away talent and bringing back wet blankets for them.