Article: CLE 5, MIN 2: Cleveland Prevails on Lindor Walk-Off Homer

[yarnivek1972]

A guy I would love to see as the next manager of the Twins: Tom Prince.

 

I still remember YEARS ago when Kyle Lohse was a largely enigmatic suspect. There was a game he pitched and was all over the place but was getting away with it. When the Twins were hitting in like the second inning there were several TV shots of Prince right in Kyle’s face for a solid 2-3 minutes. As I recall, the result was 5 near perfect innings after that.

 

THAT is EXACTLY the kind of guy the Twins need. A TEACHER.

[ashbury]

Should we find a CF now?

We'd probably better. They don't come cheaply though. Not if you want the complete package.

 

The collection we have now would be fine if we could combine skills. Unfortunately, the individuals who have range don't have judgement (Cave) or the ones who have judgement don't have an arm (Granite) or the ones with an arm don't have CF range (Wade, IMO), and the ones who do have all those defensive skills/talents either can't lay off breaking pitches in the dirt (Buxton) or are needed at an even more pressing position (Lewis).

 

We have a bunch of almost-maybes. Buxton remains our best hope, if he can shake off being cross-eyed from repeated concussions. But we're embarrassingly thin at the position.

[Squirrel]

 

 

They either shouldn't be on the roster or you need a new manager with the ability to trust.  

Concur; especially with the latter.

 

#MolitorNeedsToGo

[ThejacKmp]

 

Molitor may "go" on his own but he will never be sent. He fits the mold of a Minnesota Twins manager perfectly. Rapidly becoming one of the worst run franchises in professional sports. Watching the Atlanta Braves beat Washington last night was so refreshing. Braves have a parade of fresh faces plus a real veteran first baseman in Freeman who can flat play the game. My guess is that every one of these players, including Freeman at some point, were probably available to the Twins. Again, where is the 2016 number 1 pick in all of MLB and why is his name never mentioned in 2019 plans, if not 2018? Will he even be called up during the ridiculous roster expansion in September? Never could understand that since that is crunch time and should be decided by the core team; not exhibition teams.

 

1.) Ummm, have you met the Marlins? The Padres? The Reds? The Twins have their warts but you're just being negative, per usual.

 

2) The 2016 #1 pick is Mickey Moniak and he's with the Phillies, not hitting in High A ball. I guess the Twins could try to trade for him but he's not that great a prospect so not sure why they world.

 

3.) The Braves were awful for years. They now are on the upswing. That's the way things go. In two years the Twins will be on the upswing hopefully. Not sure how you want the Twins to somehow fast forward time. Rebuilding takes time.

[djvang]

Can't watch the bottom of the 9th on the road anymore. Too predictable.

[yarnivek1972]

1.) Ummm, have you met the Marlins? The Padres? The Reds? The Twins have their warts but you're just being negative, per usual.

 

2) The 2016 #1 pick is Mickey Moniak and he's with the Phillies, not hitting in High A ball. I guess the Twins could try to trade for him but he's not that great a prospect so not sure why they world.

 

3.) The Braves were awful for years. They now are on the upswing. That's the way things go. In two years the Twins will be on the upswing hopefully. Not sure how you want the Twins to somehow fast forward time. Rebuilding takes time.

The Twins haven’t won a playoff game in 16 years. If rebuilding takes that long, you’re doing something wrong.

 

What indications are there that this FO is committed to rebuilding? If, as you say, the Twins won’t be on the upswing for two more years, why wouldn’t they have traded Kyle Gibson - who possibly could have brought in a blue chip prospect to build around? Why are Matt Belisle, Fernando Rodney, Logan Morrison, Logan Forsythe, Jake Odorizzi and Robbie Grossman still rostered and playing (until injury sidelined some of them)?

 

None of them figure to be around in 2020. Rebuilding to me (and to most) means tearing it all down and starting at square one. There is zero indication that this FO is committed to that nor has there been since they were hired. Indeed, their plan seems to be to tread water and be satisfied being borderline competitive in a weak division.

[Riverbrian]

Interesting.

If you are saying that “if Buxton doesn’t hit next year”. Rosters will be set and it will be much harder to find one that does. I think the Twins should be looking right now and into the off season for someone who can man the position in case “Buxton doesn’t hit next year”.

 

Interesting indeed.

[wsnydes]

I realize that Forsythe isn't high on the list of concerns for this club. He's played well here, I'll definitely give him credit there. My issue is that he's playing every day. Why isn't Adrianza playing 2B to at least see if he can back up his good streak with the bat when he was playing every day. Unless Gordon finishes hot and has a hot spring, he's not going to be on the active roster come the start of next season. Forsythe isn't the future answer, Adrianza is at least signed for next year so why not give him a run there?

 

Molitor's refusal to actually try to build up the young guys continues to irk me. Just another reason why I don't believe that he's the right fit here.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I realize that Forsythe isn't high on the list of concerns for this club. He's played well here, I'll definitely give him credit there. My issue is that he's playing every day. Why isn't Adrianza playing 2B to at least see if he can back up his good streak with the bat when he was playing every day. Unless Gordon finishes hot and has a hot spring, he's not going to be on the active roster come the start of next season. Forsythe isn't the future answer, Adrianza is at least signed for next year so why not give him a run there?

 

Because Adrianza has to be available to pinch-hit for Johnny Field, obviously!

 

Now Field may not be here next year either, but what do you expect Molitor to do, consider the future of multiple lineup spots simultaneously? While grieving over Belisle's knee?

[SwainZag]

 

I realize that Forsythe isn't high on the list of concerns for this club. He's played well here, I'll definitely give him credit there. My issue is that he's playing every day. Why isn't Adrianza playing 2B to at least see if he can back up his good streak with the bat when he was playing every day. Unless Gordon finishes hot and has a hot spring, he's not going to be on the active roster come the start of next season. Forsythe isn't the future answer, Adrianza is at least signed for next year so why not give him a run there?

 

Molitor's refusal to actually try to build up the young guys continues to irk me. Just another reason why I don't believe that he's the right fit here.

 

I would say because Adrianza is the only viable backup for all the infield positions, so he is being used in a utilityrole.  Let's be honest with ourselves here, Adrianza will be 29 next week and we know what he is.  A light hitting, glove first infielder.  If he were 23 and shown signs with his bat at any level, I would get this gripe, but eh...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Molitor's refusal to actually try to build up the young guys continues to irk me.

I agree with you about playing Adrianza over Forsythe, but worth noting that Adrianza is almost 29 years old (birthday on August 21, which my wall calendar says is also Senior Citizens Day ).

 

So he's not that young, but he's definitely a bigger part of our future than Forsythe.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The Twins haven’t won a playoff game in 16 years. If rebuilding takes that long, you’re doing something wrong.

What indications are there that this FO is committed to rebuilding? If, as you say, the Twins won’t be on the upswing for two more years, why wouldn’t they have traded Kyle Gibson - who possibly could have brought in a blue chip prospect to build around? Why are Matt Belisle, Fernando Rodney, Logan Morrison, Logan Forsythe, Jake Odorizzi and Robbie Grossman still rostered and playing (until injury sidelined some of them)?

None of them figure to be around in 2020. Rebuilding to me (and to most) means tearing it all down and starting at square one. There is zero indication that this FO is committed to that nor has there been since they were hired. Indeed, their plan seems to be to tread water and be satisfied being borderline competitive in a weak division.

 

They're in year 4 or 5 of the rebuild. We all forget they've been competitive in two of the last four years and have the #6 farm system. When I say upswing, I mean when the next wave of talent comes up. People get too focused on the here and now.

 

The Twins have good pieces now and good pieces coming up. Many organizations (not in big markets maybe) would be very happy to be in the Twins position. Glass is 3/4 full folks.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If you are saying that “if Buxton doesn’t hit next year”. Rosters will be set and it will be much harder to find one that does. I think the Twins should be looking right now and into the off season for someone who can man the position in case “Buxton doesn’t hit next year”.

Interesting indeed.

 

I would plan on Buxton starting next season in the minors and try and find someone needing  1 year make good contract (if one is out there). 

[Nine of twelve]

 

Hildenberger is the latest Molitor overuse casualty.

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

[jkcarew]

I could not care less whether we win or lose these games.  The W/L's at this point are less relevant than those of the minor league teams.  I'm interested in seeing the individual performances of those that are likely to be in 2019 plans.

 

To that end, I thought a few things were noteworthy.  May looked encouraging.  So did Sano.  Two things happened in the 9th inning Sano at-bat that almost never happen with Sano.  He was both looking for the breaking ball away ahead in the count...usually only looking FB in that situation...AND he seemed to consciously try to hit it to the right side of center.  To me, he needs to take advantage of the low leverage games/at-bats remaining and keep working on this stuff and not worry about the HR totals, etc....almost as if he's still in the minors.

 

Also, Garver was awful behind the plate again.  I don't care (for now)...needs to play more.

 

 

[jkcarew]

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

Good point.  I never thought of it this way.  We probably have 'certain long-tenured player' on a step-count.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

 

It's kind of hard to overuse a hitter, compared to a pitcher. They are two different animals. Most hitters don't need time off, if they do, that handicaps the teams. Pitchers? totally different, they need time off.

[USAFChief]

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

As Mike noted, they are not remotely comparable situations.

 

 

[wsnydes]

 

I would say because Adrianza is the only viable backup for all the infield positions, so he is being used in a utilityrole.  Let's be honest with ourselves here, Adrianza will be 29 next week and we know what he is.  A light hitting, glove first infielder.  If he were 23 and shown signs with his bat at any level, I would get this gripe, but eh...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not losing sleep over it. It's not as though Adrianza couldn't slide anywhere else on the infield if an injury came up during a game if he started. It's not like he's DH'ing. I just don't see much use in playing Forsythe since it's very unlikely that he'll be back.  

[wsnydes]

 

I agree with you about playing Adrianza over Forsythe, but worth noting that Adrianza is almost 29 years old (birthday on August 21, which my wall calendar says is also Senior Citizens Day ).

So he's not that young, but he's definitely a bigger part of our future than Forsythe.

Right, and I get that he's not all that young. Since he's much more likely to be here next season, it would stand to reason that he should see more action. I'm not losing sleep over it, I just see it as Molitor playing another veteran over somebody who could use the playing time more for future considerations.

[yarnivek1972]

For all we know the FO could be intending to bring Forsythe back.

[Otto von Ballpark]

For all we know the FO could be intending to bring Forsythe back.

I hope not. There will be quite a few infield alternatives on the free agent market, and our lack of financial commitments suggests we don't have to go cheap on the position.

[SwainZag]

 

I hope not. There will be quite a few infield alternatives on the free agent market, and our lack of financial commitments suggests we don't have to go cheap on the position.

 

On the other hand Forsythe is a year and a half removed from a 3.4 WAR season.  I know he was brutal with the stick in LA this season, if they don't think Gordon will be ready next year (not looking good) I could see extending a 1 year "prove it" type deal for Forsythe.  He's only 31 and the Twins do have a lot of depth up the middle in the minors.  I would be surprised to see them going to free agency and signing a multi year deal to a 2B/SS this offseason.

[Otto von Ballpark]

On the other hand Forsythe is a year and a half removed from a 3.4 WAR season. I know he was brutal with the stick in LA this season, if they don't think Gordon will be ready next year (not looking good) I could see extending a 1 year "prove it" type deal for Forsythe. He's only 31 and the Twins do have a lot of depth up the middle in the minors. I would be surprised to see them going to free agency and signing a multi year deal to a 2B/SS this offseason.

After last year's slow market, and this year's large crop of pending FA infielders, there is a good chance they don't have to make a multi-year offer to get a better player than Forsythe.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018-19-mlb-free-agents.html

[Riverbrian]

 

I would plan on Buxton starting next season in the minors and try and find someone needing  1 year make good contract (if one is out there). 

 

You will get no argument from me. 

 

My thoughts on Buxton are simple. I think he has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball but he is currently closer to one of the worst players in baseball. 

 

I will not count on him until he proves he can be counted on.

 

He earns his job from here forward.

 

I'm just plain tired of absorbing poor CF play in the name of "he's gonna be". 

[Squirrel]

 

It's kind of hard to overuse a hitter, compared to a pitcher. They are two different animals. Most hitters don't need time off, if they do, that handicaps the teams. Pitchers? totally different, they need time off.

I get that but what it all boils down to for me is the manager, how and when he uses certain players. How he manages the BP, the lineups, the players. It's not anyone's decision but his. Period. And if you are giving leeway to some players to make that call, that's on the manager and the FO for allowing it.

[Squirrel]

 

 

As Mike noted, they are not remotely comparable situations.

Yes, they are ... because it's the manager's decision who plays when, where, how. It's on him. And if he's not making those calls, why isn't he? It's his job! Giving deference  to some players' 'needs' over others is not the way to manage.

[Riverbrian]

 

Concur; especially with the latter.

 

#MolitorNeedsToGo

 

I'm really trying to stay composed. 

 

I am already at peace with the knowledge that we won't win the World Series this year and don't care about W's and L's at this moment in time as a result.  

 

But my frustration is starting to get the better of me because when I consider 2019.  I don't understand what purpose Forsythe and Morrison are serving the franchise and therefore don't understand why they are playing every day. 

 

I can justify Drake if I squint my eyes but I can't justify Forsythe, Morrison and of course Belisle. 

 

So yeah... I'm getting ready to join your chorus. 

 

[Squirrel]

 

I'm really trying to stay composed. 

 

I am already at peace with the knowledge that we won't win the World Series this year and don't care about W's and L's at this moment in time as a result.  

 

But my frustration is starting to get the better of me because when I consider 2019.  I don't understand what purpose Forsythe and Morrison are serving the franchise and therefore don't understand why they are playing every day. 

 

I can justify Drake if I squint my eyes but I can't justify Forsythe, Morrison and of course Belisle. 

 

So yeah... I'm getting ready to join your chorus. 

This whole season I've found roster management frustrating ... both from the FO with call ups and moves and with the manager in his in-game management of the roster given him.

[ewen21]

 

1.) Ummm, have you met the Marlins? The Padres? The Reds? The Twins have their warts but you're just being negative, per usual.

 

2) The 2016 #1 pick is Mickey Moniak and he's with the Phillies, not hitting in High A ball. I guess the Twins could try to trade for him but he's not that great a prospect so not sure why they world.

 

3.) The Braves were awful for years. They now are on the upswing. That's the way things go. In two years the Twins will be on the upswing hopefully. Not sure how you want the Twins to somehow fast forward time. Rebuilding takes time.

When you to have say we aren't as bad as the Reds, Marlins and Padres to find a sliver lining you are reaching.  If this is "being positive" then I don't any part of it.  The Twins need to make tough decisions and honestly assess what they need to do.  I happen think they need to let go of both Molitor and Mauer after this season.  It is time to move on into the next era.  Needing local guys to sell the product is a Mickey Mouse approach.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by ewen21