Article: NYY 4, MIN 3: Rodney Spoils Great Gibby Start, Twins Swept

[jud6312]

 

Here is a fact that you might find interesting.   The Twins are in the middle of a seven game losing streak.  Only 3 teams ever had a longer losing streak during a season (1953 Yankees with 9, 1990 Reds & 2006 Cardinals with 8)  and ended up winning a World Series.

 

Over reacting?   Nah.  Postseason contenders, such as we think the Twins should be, just do not have such losing streaks.

[jud6312]

Can we please talk about how unimportant the closer's role is again?

[Platoon]

I think another reason for the pitching futility has been the regression of the defense. Dozier's arm and range are limited, Sano can be a disaster sometimes, and Escobar doesn't have the range at short. Awful throws from outfielders have factored in, too. I ain't excusing Rodney for his incompetence, though. They should get him to pitch some low leverage innings before they think about having him try to save a game.

This is really not a good IF, with the he exception of Mauer. Dozier is ok and gets style points for diving at everything. I love EE, as a utility IF. But he is not the SS a contending team would trot out there. Sano is exactly as expected. Catches some, misses some, and has an unreal arm. But his bat is the reason he plays. That throw should have been picked though, it wasn't an in betweener. The ball Garver let get by him cost the Twins one run. The first GB to Sano the second.

[Aggies7]

Always fun when the team plays poorly, as most teams do every year, how much overreacting there is.

 

That's not to say there aren't concerns and things to work on, but without being boring, it is a 162 game season. Lots of season left. 56 or so games against the Tigers, White Sox and Royals. Hopefully more consistent play. Hopefully a few of the slumpers get things going here soon. Hopefully Dozier, Mauer and Kepler keep it up. I mean, there's no reason to give up on 2018 or their playoff hopes yet.

Sure, on face value there is plenty of time and plenty of games left. But I’d be curious as to where you think the twins are better or equal to the Yankees in the talent department (keeping in mind they may not even be the best team in their division!)? Where specifically do you think we match up well with the best teams in the AL?

 

I’ll say one thing, the coaching, scouting and development is FAR superior in NY than what we currently have here on our club. You see their rookies and young guys look much more seasoned and disciplined than some of our “young guys” who have been up here for years (looking at you Miguel and Eddie). There was one comment in today’s broadcast from Corey regarding sano and judge. “Judge doesn’t swing at that pitch outside the zone”, the same pitch Sano has still not adjusted to laying off of. The consistently great at bats put together by their club vs ours was striking this series.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Aggies7

[Aggies7]

This is really not a good IF, with the he exception of Mauer. Dozier is ok and gets style points for diving at everything. I love EE, as a utility IF. But he is not the SS a contending team would trot out there. Sano is exactly as expected. Catches some, misses some, and has an unreal arm. But his bat is the reason he plays. That throw should have been picked though, it wasn't an in betweener. The ball Garver let get by him cost the Twins one run. The first GB to Sano the second.

The passed ball in the 8th was HUGE.

[howeda7]

 

This game was not on Rodney.

Please. Yes Sano made an error, but he still managed to give up 3 runs in 8 pitches. He certainly shares a huge chunk of the blame. But if they keep running him out there, it's on the Twins. 

[less cowbell more neau]

I'm not worried. In a post-game interview, Thad Levine said that these losses have "galvanized" the Twins. By the time they are mathematically eliminated from the post-season, they will be a mighty force to be feared by all.

[Aggies7]

I'm not worried. In a post-game interview, Thad Levine said that these losses have "galvanized" the Twins. By the time they are mathematically eliminated from the post-season, they will be a mighty force to be feared by all.

Was that really said? None of the previous 6 losses seemed to do anything at all. Really sad he would take us for fools like that.

[less cowbell more neau]

 

Who was it on then?

O.J. is helping Rodney find him as we speak.

[TwinsCD]

 

This game was not on Rodney.

 

He's the flippin 'closer'.  Do your GD job.  And he hasn't done that in his last 2 save situations.

[less cowbell more neau]

 

Was that really said? None of the previous 6 losses seemed to do anything at all. Really sad he would take us for fools like that.

Baghdad Bob would've been impressed. Via the Strib:

 

“I’m very confident that with the talent we have in that [clubhouse] and the leadership, that this is going to be galvanizing,” Levine said as the Twins dressed quietly nearby. “I think they’re officially [angry] [["pissed off" actually]] now.”

    Like several of his players, Levine adopted a that’s-just-baseball attitude about the walk-off defeat on Gary Sanchez’s three-run homer. That attitude is why the Twins won’t be devastated by their seven-game losing streak, he said.

    “We feel like we have a very talented team, but we fell into a bit of a rough patch. These are moments of adversity that either galvanize the group, or hamstring the group,” the general manager declared. “I’d expect they’re going to go home and be happy to play in front of a home crowd [that’s] not wearing ski caps. I believe things are going to turn around in short order.”

[Aggies7]

Baghdad Bob would've been impressed. Via the Strib:

 

“I’m very confident that with the talent we have in that [clubhouse] and the leadership, that this is going to be galvanizing,” Levine said as the Twins dressed quietly nearby. “I think they’re officially [angry] [["pissed off" actually]] now.”

    Like several of his players, Levine adopted a that’s-just-baseball attitude about the walk-off defeat on Gary Sanchez’s three-run homer. That attitude is why the Twins won’t be devastated by their seven-game losing streak, he said.

    “We feel like we have a very talented team, but we fell into a bit of a rough patch. These are moments of adversity that either galvanize the group, or hamstring the group,” the general manager declared. “I’d expect they’re going to go home and be happy to play in front of a home crowd [that’s] not wearing ski caps. I believe things are going to turn around in short order.”

[AlwaysinModeration]

I can’t help but wonder what would have happened if Gibson has started the Wild Card game.

[TheLeviathan]

If Molitor ran Gibson out for another inning and he started getting shellacked this thread would be bashing him for it.

 

I appreciate those that are at least attempting fairness in their criticism.

[The_Phantom]

Can we please talk about how unimportant the closer's role is again?

The thing is, it IS overhyped but you still can’t have a useless player in there. Rodney giving up a bunch of runs in the 8th would have been awful too. Have a good bullpen and there’s not a reason to pay a premium for which inning they pitch in. Rodney isn’t a good reliever, closer or otherwise

[Otto von Ballpark]

I will not watch the Sanchez home run.

I will not watch the Sanchez home run.

I will not watch the Sanchez home run.

[Dantes929]

They have to play better.  That's all there is to it.   If they don't then all the doomsdayers are correct but the idea that  they are out of it just escapes me.   A week of good baseball and they are back to .500.     Ok, the talent isn't elite but it is enough to go on a nice winning streak.   It is on the players..    Aside from the 9th inning this game showed some guts from Gibson and Duke.   Win tomorrow and the world will look brighter.

[bighat]

"Let's say they sweep the Reds. Everything's going to be pretty decent at that point, they'll be 11-12".

 

We all love some good ol'e homer-ism. But this is a bit over the top, sounds kinda like a Packers fan or something. While there's nothing wrong with hoping for a sweep, this Twins team is one of the worst in baseball right now. This is not the 2017 model we're working with here. What we've got in 2018 is a shallow husk of what the Twins once were.

 

I for one just hope they win 1 damn game this weekend.

[jud6312]

 

"Let's say they sweep the Reds. Everything's going to be pretty decent at that point, they'll be 11-12".

 

We all love some good ol'e homer-ism. But this is a bit over the top, sounds kinda like a Packers fan or something. While there's nothing wrong with hoping for a sweep, this Twins team is one of the worst in baseball right now. This is not the 2017 model we're working with here. What we've got in 2018 is a shallow husk of what the Twins once were.

 

I for one just hope they win 1 damn game this weekend.

So basically like the 2017 version minus the month of June.

[Tomj14]

 

For those upset with Rodney today what exactly would you like him to do? Today he got 2 infield ground balls which his defense couldn't convert for him. Then on an 0-1 pitch that was 5 inches inside Sanchez turns on it and smashes it to left field. The pitch wasn't a bad pitch.

 

Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the other team and say, "Good game." 

For starters get an out, then give up less than two runs in one inning of work.

[Tom Froemming]

It's too bad this game went south because that bad end overshadowed Gibson's excellent performance. He's now got a 3.33 ERA and 10.0 K/9. The funny part about his success is that he's not exactly thriving in a few aspects people seem to fixate on with him.

 

His strike percentage on the year is two points below his career average and his first-pitch strike percentage is in the bottom 10 in the AL. It's funny what a 13.1% whiff rate can make up for.

[ashbury]

It's funny what a 13.1% whiff rate can make up for.

That wouldn't be a very good number, would it? b-r.com shows Gibson's 2018 strikeout rate at 26.1%, well above his career norm of around 16.

 

This still has him only 14th in the league among pitchers with a qualifying number of innings. But it's a big move up. Hope it's sustainable.

 

/ edit - Ah, never mind. You mean swinging strikes... or something. Multiple meanings of whiff.

[bizaff]

I can't remember where I found this link now, but it makes the case Rodney didn't make a bad pitch.  I agree.  The results don't support it, but that happens.

 

https://imgur.com/a/YoSn7bC

 

I'm not thrilled with the Rodney experience, but in this game he pitched pretty well, all things considered.

[Tom Froemming]

 

/ edit - Ah, never mind. You mean swinging strikes... or something. Multiple meanings of whiff.

Correct. That swinging strike rate ranks 13th among the 46 qualified starters in the AL, nearly two full percentage points ahead of Jose Berrios, which was pretty shocking to me, and Gibby's K% is 14th in the AL, ahead of three-time 200 K pitcher Chris Archer.

 

More strikes would be great, same with consistency, but I'm pretty excited about how Gibson has opened the season.

[Oxtung]

 

For starters get an out, then give up less than two runs in one inning of work.

He did. He got 2 outs in fact. He can't control the defense on the field behind him. 

 

The fact that the Twins have a sub-par defense doesn't change the fact that he pitched really damn well.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Oxtung

[Tomj14]

 

He did. He got 2 outs in fact. He can't control the defense on the field behind him. 

 

The fact that the Twins have a sub-par defense doesn't change the fact that he pitched really damn well.

I will give you the first one, but Stanton infield hit wasn't an out. and the next guy hit a homer, so it is a huge stretch to say he pitched well.

Those saying the pitch was way inside, they are wrong it was straight and barely inside.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I will give you the first one, but Stanton infield hit wasn't an out. and the next guy hit a homer, so it is a huge stretch to say he pitched well.

Those saying the pitch was way inside, they are wrong it was straight and barely inside.

Thanks for posting that.

I hadn't seen the game. That was definitely not a good pitch, that was right where power hitters like it. Right in his wheel house, as they say.

If you are going to come inside on a power hitter, you have to come WAY inside.

[Oxtung]

 

I will give you the first one, but Stanton infield hit wasn't an out. and the next guy hit a homer, so it is a huge stretch to say he pitched well.

Those saying the pitch was way inside, they are wrong it was straight and barely inside.

I think a better defender at 3rd or SS makes the Stanton play but even if he doesn't that still doesn't mean Rodney is to blame.

 

Sometimes you make a bad pitch and it's gets crushed. That is clearly on the pitcher. Sometimes you make a great pitch and the hitter still puts it in play. That is what we saw in the 9th inning. These are professional hitters out there and what's more, these are some of the best of those professionals. They are going to hit balls they shouldn't. When it happens you have to tip your cap to them. Well played Stanton and Sanchez. Well played.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He did. He got 2 outs in fact. He can't control the defense on the field behind him. 

 

The fact that the Twins have a sub-par defense doesn't change the fact that he pitched really damn well.

I'm not so sure.

 

By hit probability (exit velocity + launch angle), the first batter's ground ball was .273. Maybe not a good outcome when the pitcher is ahead 0-2 in the count? The second batter's hit probability was .259, on a 1-1 count. Both of those batters have above-average speed too, so maybe those generic probabilities are low? Maybe the defense could have done better too, but we know there is a cost to balls in play, especially when they're not pop-ups.

 

And of course, Sanchez's hit probability was .825, with a 1.616 wOBA. With that outcome, I don't know if you can defend that as a particularly good pitch, especially with the count again favoring the pitcher at 0-1.

 

An effective modern MLB pitcher should be expected to miss bats (especially to finish at-bats) and get some pop-ups. He's not alone among Twins who failed yesterday, but Rodney certainly failed at those objectives.

Edited April 27, 2018 by spycake

[Oxtung]

 

Thanks for posting that.
I hadn't seen the game. That was definitely not a good pitch, that was right where power hitters like it. Right in his wheel house, as they say.
If you are going to come inside on a power hitter, you have to come WAY inside.

That just simply isn't true according to Sanchez statcast page. His average exit velocity on pitches in similar locations, inside and on the hands, was 86-89 mph well below his average exit velocity. In fact Sanchez has average exit velocities up to 100 mph on pitches in the zone. Could that pitch have been better placed, sure. Was it "definitely not a good pitch". No. Was it "right in his wheel house"? The statistical evidence doesn't support your claim.