What can Minnesota offer Shohei Otani?

[ashbury]

Yep, my bad. He can spell it however he wants. I am just lazy and saved myself some extra typing.

Trying to ward off any jinxes.

[nicksaviking]

 

Ohtani, with an h, if you want him to come, spell it the way he wants.

All this talk reminds me of how the twins were looking at the great Cubans a few years so....

 

That was a different front office. This new one has shown less attachment to personnel, money and most importantly prior operating procedures. 

 

I know he's still a long shot, but I gave the new guys a pass last year with the understanding that once they got a feel for their surroundings I'd be expecting big changes in year two at which point accountability for putting a championship caliber team together was solely on them.

[laloesch]

If the Twins REALLY want to go for it.  Wooo Darvish to Minnesota (probably a wild dream) and pay him whatever he wants. Sign Ohtani and go after Lynn if possible.  Now 2 out of the 3 would be fantastic, but they HAVE to find a top of the rotation starter this offseason.  What i'm concerned about is blowing up the farm trying to grab Archer, Cole or some other top starter via a trade.   

[nicksaviking]

 

If the Twins REALLY want to go for it.  Wooo Darvish to Minnesota (probably a wild dream) and pay him whatever he wants. Sign Ohtani and go after Lynn if possible.  Now 2 out of the 3 would be fantastic, but they HAVE to find a top of the rotation starter this offseason.  What i'm concerned about is blowing up the farm trying to grab Archer, Cole or some other top starter via a trade.   

 

If under this circumstance the Twins had Darvish, Ohtani, Cole, Berrios and Sanatana, I wouldn't see as big of a need for a guy like Gonsalves. 

 

In fact if the Twins were to somehow get two rotation pieces (Darvish and Ohtani work for me!) I would be pretty gung-ho about using the top end farm pieces to get one more stud arm to put the Twins on par with the league's top rotations.

 

(Also, to be frank, I might be the low man on Gonsalves. Based on his high pitch counts despite good strikeout numbers I don't think he attacks the zone but instead gets minor leaguers to chase out of the zone; I think he might run into some serious problems at the MLB level. I'd look to sell high on him now, but let's keep that on the QT)

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

The pool money is not the issue for the Twins it's the 20 mill they have to pay the team he plays for in Japan. The Yankees can afford that, the Twins won't pay that, imo.

 

I've read that the Yankees might trade Betances, my idea is to trade some of the int. pool money to the Yankees for Betances. Might be a bad idea but I'm full of bad ideas.

20 mil posting fee

3 mil bonus

550k 2018 salary

550k 2019 salary

550k 2020 salary

??? 2021 Arb

??? 2022 Arb

??? 2023 Arb

 

so locked into 25 mil over 3+ years for a pitcher is too much? As the free agaent market on Cobb and Lynn looks to be 4 years 40-60 mil.... seems like a pretty smoking deal if you ask me.

[Mike Sixel]

That was a different front office. This new one has shown less attachment to personnel, money and most importantly prior operating procedures.

 

I know he's still a long shot, but I gave the new guys a pass last year with the understanding that once they got a feel for their surroundings I'd be expecting big changes in year two at which point accountability for putting a championship caliber team together was solely on them.

There is zero evidence they are more likely to spend money.

[PseudoSABR]

 

There is zero evidence they are more likely to spend money.

Paying Jaime Garcia's contract to play for the Yankees counts as nonzero evidence.  Not sure it necessarily indicates a willingness to spend on FA, but the recent reporting gives people reason to be hopeful.

[USAFChief]

There is zero evidence they are more likely to spend money.

Concur.

 

I’m hopeful, but that will require ownership’s approval, among other things.

 

Show me the money.

[gunnarthor]

 

That was a different front office. This new one has shown less attachment to personnel, money and most importantly prior operating procedures. 

 

Actually, I think they are operating very similar to the old FO. Payroll remains low. They are diving in the same cheap FA relief bins. They won't bid for the big contracts. They've traded guys about to leave in FA. They are making rule v picks. etc, etc.

What we have to hope for is that they do these things better.

[drjim]

 

Actually, I think they are operating very similar to the old FO. Payroll remains low. They are diving in the same cheap FA relief bins. They won't bid for the big contracts. They've traded guys about to leave in FA. They are making rule v picks. etc, etc.

What we have to hope for is that they do these things better.

 

While this is a possible outcome, nothing of consequence has happened for any team this offseason in all of mlb. Taking one offseason of data when they were coming off 103 losses strikes me as likely an unrepresentative sample of the way they will generally operate.

[drjim]

I will say that this movement in the narrative towards making a trade does make me a little nervous. That's usually the chatter before they aren't willing to spend.

 

And I'll repeat Doogie's nugget from his podcast a couple of days ago that his conversation with a scout led him to believe that the front office truly thinks it is still a season away. Probably means they won't overspend all that much for a starter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Actually, I think they are operating very similar to the old FO. Payroll remains low. They are diving in the same cheap FA relief bins. They won't bid for the big contracts. They've traded guys about to leave in FA. They are making rule v picks. etc, etc.

What we have to hope for is that they do these things better.

While I'm far from certain they won't do these things, we only have one offseason from which to judge the new front office, an offseason where they were just getting their feet wet and coming off a 100 loss season.

 

In that context, those moves make sense. In the current context, I'll be pretty disappointing if that is their MO going forward.

[Mike Sixel]

Paying Jaime Garcia's contract to play for the Yankees counts as nonzero evidence. Not sure it necessarily indicates a willingness to spend on FA, but the recent reporting gives people reason to be hopeful.

That money was already spent.

[Brock Beauchamp]

That money was already spent.

That’s really unfair. Reports had it the Twins won Garcia at all because they were willing to take on that money in the first place.

[laloesch]

If under this circumstance the Twins had Darvish, Ohtani, Cole, Berrios and Sanatana, I wouldn't see as big of a need for a guy like Gonsalves. 

 

In fact if the Twins were to somehow get two rotation pieces (Darvish and Ohtani work for me!) I would be pretty gung-ho about using the top end farm pieces to get one more stud arm to put the Twins on par with the league's top rotations.

 

(Also, to be frank, I might be the low man on Gonsalves. Based on his high pitch counts despite good strikeout numbers I don't think he attacks the zone but instead gets minor leaguers to chase out of the zone; I think he might run into some serious problems at the MLB level. I'd look to sell high on him now, but let's keep that on the QT)

No argument from me on this.

[Mike Sixel]

That’s really unfair. Reports had it the Twins won Garcia at all because they were willing to take on that money in the first place.

Ok, if I concede that..... Is that solid evidence this FO is any different than the last?

[TKGuy]

Sign Darvish First is the best way to get him if Minny has a chance.

[ashbury]

Ok, if I concede that..... Is that solid evidence this FO is any different than the last?

The response was to your statement there was zero evidence. Now that non-zero evidence is in hand, do you want to tell us where the goalposts are before we go off looking for more?

 

It is the beginning of the off-season, after all, and nearly everyone seems to acknowledge that a first off-season coming off a 100+ loss season may not give guidance for what comes now. All "evidence" is by nature going to be fragmentary. If what you want now is for it to be "solid", that's a lot to ask. We're just reading tea leaves for now.

[Mike Sixel]

I just don't see it as different. Feel free to do so. Until they spend more than Terry, nothing is different.

 

This explanation that they didn't spend money last year because they needed to assess the team is odd. They needed to see the worst pitching in the majors to know something should change?

 

My original post was in response to a post stating that it was clear they were more willing to spend money. If people think that, good for them, and I hope they are right.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Ok, if I concede that..... Is that solid evidence this FO is any different than the last?

Not at all. It's somewhat promising but we need more information. The next two months will be telling.

[tvagle]

All this talk about evidence....

 

[prouster]

 

This explanation that they didn't spend money last year because they needed to assess the team is odd. They needed to see the worst pitching in the majors to know something should change?

 

I get your point, and I don't think it's wrong. That said, I think a better explanation is probably that there was no reason to spend big coming off such a terrible season, as a few others have alluded to. Alternatively, maybe they saw some untapped upside on the roster that didn't pan out as hoped (some MiLB relievers, Gibson, etc.).

[nicksaviking]

There is zero evidence they are more likely to spend money.

There's no less evidence showing they will spend then there is that they won't spend.

 

Regardless Ohtani isn't about spending money, all 30 clubs could afford him. Additionally, even if the Twins did the unthinkable and inked Darvish the team still would only be approaching their record budget in 2010 (2011?). With league wide inflation they'd still be below expectations. It's not about having money, it's about having guts.

 

And there's no less evidence showing they do have guts than there is that they don't have guts.

[Aichiman]

You don't have to sign Darvish and burn all those millions.  Just sign Ichiro as a 4th outfielder and let Ohtani pitch and DH.  Tell him he's got two years to acclimate to the big leagues in friendly, low pressure Minnesota, and then he can go to Broadway and hit the big time.  That's my plan.  Will it work?  Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That’s really unfair. Reports had it the Twins won Garcia at all because they were willing to take on that money in the first place.

1. Define "win"

 

2. Does this mean the Yankees were the ultimate winners?

 

/snark

[Platoon]

1. yes, and no.

 

2. only year he signs. It's the bonus money.

 

3. This is what they're not allowing to happen under the international rules. He's subject to the same rules as every other international player. Can't sign an MLB deal like you outline.

Today's Trib had this article:

 

http://www.startribune.com/apnewsbreak-ohtani-agent-asks-mlb-teams-for-written-answers/459955783/

 

So if he can't sign a MLB deal til after 2019, he would play MLB baseball for the minimum, on a MiLB contract? And the pool money is his maximum signing bonus? (Scratching head furiously). Btw, I cannot imagine Nishiokia (sp) experience in MN will go on the plus side of the ledger.

[amjgt]

Hopefully MN can offer the best book report of all 30 teams

[Jacksson]

Whatever HE wants!

Anything HE wants!!

Everything HE wants!!!

Everything Else HE wants!!!!

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

Hopefully MN can offer the best book report of all 30 teams

 

Maybe we could pool the collective genius of TD and write the winner.  I could do the proofreading.

[Squirrel]

I actually think this is a really smart thing on Ohtani's part. He's making it clear 'It's not about the money.' Well, it really can't be about the money for a few years anyway, so this is interesting. I'd be interested to read all of the letters. And I hope the Twins have a really good Japanese translator.