What can Minnesota offer Shohei Otani?

[Hrbowski]

 

 a private lake would be nice.

All lakes in Minnesota are public property, but I suppose he could be offered shoreline.

[Guest]

1. yes, and no.

 

2. only year he signs. It's the bonus money.

 

3. This is what they're not allowing to happen under the international rules. He's subject to the same rules as every other international player. Can't sign an MLB deal like you outline.

If the international pool money is only a limit on his first year money, why are teams limited as to what the can pay him in years 2+?

 

Also, didn’t Cespedes and perhaps one or two other established Cuban players sign contracts allowing them early free agency? Is that not permitted now?

[Winston Smith]

If I understand it the initial money is signing bonus. The money the three highest pool teams have is around ($3.5m) what a mid teens draft pick would get. He then gets treated like any other first year player. He'd make ML minimum until he has playing time to gain arbitration and then after 6 years(?) he hits free agency.

 

They changed it a few years back and I don't think you have a bidding war with his current team they now just get a $20m fee for his rights after he finds a team.

[Squirrel]

 

Let's annex South Dakota and put Otani's face on Mount Rushmore. 

 

Or at the least, make him a huge corn mural at the Corn Palace.  Maybe he has a deep-down desire to be a corn star...

This one really made me laugh ...

 

 

But this one made me want to vomit a little ...

 

Lutefisk and spam sushi roll. The "Minnesota roll" 

 

Edit: Has to be served on a stick.

 

[mazeville]

 

The pool money is not the issue for the Twins it's the 20 mill they have to pay the team he plays for in Japan. The Yankees can afford that, the Twins won't pay that, imo.

 

I've read that the Yankees might trade Betances, my idea is to trade some of the int. pool money to the Yankees for Betances. Might be a bad idea but I'm full of bad ideas.

 

Why wouldn't they? $23 million for a young, controllable pitcher who is also a potential middle of the order bat? Are you kidding?

 

Don't think for a minute the Twins won't spend. That is SUCH a misnomer. They gave Joe Mauer $23 million a year. They quickly signed Jason Castro last year. They signed Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Ervin Santana when they felt they needed starting pitching.

 

$20 million is hardly a deal breaker. If $20 million keeps the Twins from signing a potentially generational talent, then the front office should quit and the Pohlads should sell the team. Preferably very cheaply, to me.

 

I'm not saying Otani is. But $20 million should not be a barrier to signing a player like that. 

[Winston Smith]

 

Why wouldn't they? $23 million for a young, controllable pitcher who is also a potential middle of the order bat? Are you kidding?

 

Don't think for a minute the Twins won't spend. That is SUCH a misnomer. They gave Joe Mauer $23 million a year. They quickly signed Jason Castro last year. They signed Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Ervin Santana when they felt they needed starting pitching.

 

$20 million is hardly a deal breaker. If $20 million keeps the Twins from signing a potentially generational talent, then the front office should quit and the Pohlads should sell the team. Preferably very cheaply, to me.

 

I'm not saying Otani is. But $20 million should not be a barrier to signing a player like that. 

My opinion right or wrong. I just don't think, in this case, they will spend it. I will be happy to be wrong.

[zenser]

 

The pool money is not the issue for the Twins it's the 20 mill they have to pay the team he plays for in Japan. The Yankees can afford that, the Twins won't pay that, imo.

 

 

Didn't the Twins pay 12.5 million or something like that to win the Park sweepstakes on top of the contract they gave him?  I would really hope they would pony up and pay the 20 million.

[drjim]

My opinion right or wrong. I just don't think, in this case, they will spend it. I will be happy to be wrong.

This is taking a valid complaint/concern (that the Twins don't spend enough) to an unserious extreme. Every team will be willing to spend $20mm to acquire him. This won't be the barrier to the Twins getting him.

[Guest]

If I understand it the initial money is signing bonus. The money the three highest pool teams have is around ($3.5m) what a mid teens draft pick would get. He then gets treated like any other first year player. He'd make ML minimum until he has playing time to gain arbitration and then after 6 years(?) he hits free agency.

 

They changed it a few years back and I don't think you have a bidding war with his current team they now just get a $20m fee for his rights after he finds a team.

Why can’t the Yankees or someone else offer Ohtani approximately $3M for the first year and $100M for the next four?

[Badsmerf]

I refuse to try and make a serious offer.... joking is so much more fun.

 

The twins could offer instant golden throne on the twins territory caravan during January. Brad Pitt in snatch would be impressed....

[DocBauer]

He can have mine.

 

Seriously, I still have one. Actually, it's a shersey. Still. Says Nishioka on the back. Wore it a lot during the 103-loss season.

So the mystery as to the complete collapse of the 2016 bas been resolved! Shame on You! LOL

[Winston Smith]

 

This is taking a valid complaint/concern (that the Twins don't spend enough) to an unserious extreme. Every team will be willing to spend $20mm to acquire him. This won't be the barrier to the Twins getting him.

Why my comment gets twisted around to a complaint about the Twins NEVER spending I don't understand. I was commenting on one instance that I don't think they will do. 

I made no mention about past or future spending just an opinion on this one player. 

[Thrylos]

 

Lutefisk and spam sushi roll. The "Minnesota roll" 

 

Edit: Has to be served on a stick.

 

Nah.  Has to be wrapped in lefse (butter, white sugar and all) instead of seaweed.  Cream of mushroom soup drizzle and french fried onions optional.

[Thrylos]

 

I was going to say that they should let him try and be a two way player...

 

That has to be played very carefully.   Because we really do not know how his hitting will could translate in the majors.   Last season he hit .332/.403/.540 as a 23 year old.  I do know that he was nursing injuries and had a much better 2016, but...

 

The non-mentionable in his age 25 season in Japan, before he came over, hit a very comparable .346/.423/.482 that did not translate quite well in the majors.  Maybe the fact that was badly injured played a role here (and went he returned to Japan his numbers were pretty pathetic, too,)  but, to quote Great White, once bitten, twice shy baby.

 

That's about his hitting only.   No worries whether his pitching will play.  Likely the best Japanese pitcher to make it to the majors.  But committing that he will hit on a regular basis, does carry a risk.

[laloesch]

Covers mouth and gags.

[kab21]

 

Why can’t the Yankees or someone else offer Ohtani approximately $3M for the first year and $100M for the next four?

Because they can't agree (written or oral/undisclosed) to a contract beyond the original signing bonus.

[Aichiman]

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani.  First some background: I live in Japan.  Been here 18 years and counting.  I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day.  He's a ex ballplayer.  He played on the same high school team as Ichiro.  He is two years younger, so he they had one year together.  He told me straight up with no hesitation.  Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.  The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH.  If they let him do it, he'll sign.  He'll be a Twin.  That's it.

 

[Linus]

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani. First some background: I live in Japan. Been here 18 years and counting. I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day. He's a ex ballplayer. He played on the same high school team as Ichiro. He is two years younger, so he they had one year together. He told me straight up with no hesitation. Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc. The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH. If they let him do it, he'll sign. He'll be a Twin. That's it.

If this is true. The Twins should agree in a heartbeat. They have huge needs in both areas.

[RaoulDuke]

 

All lakes in Minnesota are public property, but I suppose he could be offered shoreline.

 

The people can prolly afford to sacrifice one.

[RaoulDuke]

 

That has to be played very carefully.   Because we really do not know how his hitting will could translate in the majors.   Last season he hit .332/.403/.540 as a 23 year old.  I do know that he was nursing injuries and had a much better 2016, but...

 

The non-mentionable in his age 25 season in Japan, before he came over, hit a very comparable .346/.423/.482 that did not translate quite well in the majors.  Maybe the fact that was badly injured played a role here (and went he returned to Japan his numbers were pretty pathetic, too,)  but, to quote Great White, once bitten, twice shy baby.

 

That's about his hitting only.   No worries whether his pitching will play.  Likely the best Japanese pitcher to make it to the majors.  But committing that he will hit on a regular basis, does carry a risk.

 

I would much rather he not hit and just focus on being a stud pitcher, but if that is the price to land him I say do it.  Maybe/ probably when he doesn't set the MLB aflame hitting he just focuses on pitching.

[Doctor Wu]

He can pitch, he can hit ... but can he shoot 3-pointers?  Haven't had a good 2-sport star in a long time (wasn't Deion Sanders the last one?) , so why not let the T-Wolves sign this guy too?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'd be curious if he plays other positions. I don't mind letting him pitch and DH. I would appreciate it though if he could play a passable corner OF or IF position as well. Certainly not something to do a lot, but that gives for a bit more DH flexibility as opposed to Otani being a bench bat quite a bit.

[kab21]

 

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani.  First some background: I live in Japan.  Been here 18 years and counting.  I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day.  He's a ex ballplayer.  He played on the same high school team as Ichiro.  He is two years younger, so he they had one year together.  He told me straight up with no hesitation.  Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.  The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH.  If they let him do it, he'll sign.  He'll be a Twin.  That's it.

I pitched this earlier as a reason why the Twins have something that other teams can't offer. They already have a rotating DH role where Sano is going to play 50+ games at DH. Otani can easily get 60+ games at DH with Grossman/Garver/Escobar getting the final 50 games. It isn't a full time DH role but if he performs then he can hit more.

[Dantes929]

 

He can pitch, he can hit ... but can he shoot 3-pointers?  Haven't had a good 2-sport star in a long time (wasn't Deion Sanders the last one?) , so why not let the T-Wolves sign this guy too?

 

I pitched this earlier as a reason why the Twins have something that other teams can't offer. They already have a rotating DH role where Sano is going to play 50+ games at DH. Otani can easily get 60+ games at DH with Grossman/Garver/Escobar getting the final 50 games. It isn't a full time DH role but if he performs then he can hit more.

I read he is super fast also or at least 3.9 to 1st base for a 6'5" guy seems super fast to me and he  has been playing outfield so I see no reason not to play him there also if he can hit.  Too bad he bats lefty.   Anyway with his size and speed I could see him being more likely to be a football player as a two way athlete.    I heard he wants to play quarterback and linebacker.    

[prouster]

 

I read he is super fast also or at least 3.9 to 1st base for a 6'5" guy seems super fast to me and he  has been playing outfield so I see no reason not to play him there also if he can hit.  Too bad he bats lefty.   Anyway with his size and speed I could see him being more likely to be a football player as a two way athlete.    I heard he wants to play quarterback and linebacker.    

 

The danger with letting him play in the outfield is that he'll almost certainly have to make some max effort throws on his days off from pitching.

[Thrylos]

 

I'd be curious if he plays other positions. I don't mind letting him pitch and DH. I would appreciate it though if he could play a passable corner OF or IF position as well. Certainly not something to do a lot, but that gives for a bit more DH flexibility as opposed to Otani being a bench bat quite a bit.

 

Then there is the risk of injury.  The last place I want him on a fly ball is near Buxton or Dozier.

[Steve Lein]

 

If the international pool money is only a limit on his first year money, why are teams limited as to what the can pay him in years 2+?

Also, didn’t Cespedes and perhaps one or two other established Cuban players sign contracts allowing them early free agency? Is that not permitted now?

 

Because he's under the same rules as any other player MiLB player coming up. Team control, arbitration, etc... and the MLB has explicitly stated they will punish any team who attempts to skirt any rules by doing something like you mention.

 

There's no precedent, so no way to know what they will or won't allow. But for sure, you can't sign him with a promise you'll give him an extension after one or two years, MLB has said that's gonna be a no-no.

 

It's new rules, not the same as Cespedes and others before him.

[Guest]

I’ve heard that the Athletics have received permission from city government that they can call their city O-Town if he signs there.

[Guest]

Because he's under the same rules as any other player MiLB player coming up. Team control, arbitration, etc... and the MLB has explicitly stated they will punish any team who attempts to skirt any rules by doing something like you mention.

 

There's no precedent, so no way to know what they will or won't allow. But for sure, you can't sign him with a promise you'll give him an extension after one or two years, MLB has said that's gonna be a no-no.

 

It's new rules, not the same as Cespedes and others before him.

Although Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, etc. are not even eligible for arbitration, the Twins can sign extensions with them now. The Astros and Rays have signed multi-year contracts with players who had almost no major league experience. It’s unclear why a team can’t be that aggressive with Ohtani. My guess is that he and his agent have reviewed the rules much closer than analysts have.

[Steve Lein]

 

Although Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, etc. are not even eligible for arbitration, the Twins can sign extensions with them now. The Astros and Rays have signed multi-year contracts with players who had almost no major league experience. It’s unclear why a team can’t be that aggressive with Ohtani. My guess is that he and his agent have reviewed the rules much closer than analysts have.

 

I know this is where its murky. But it's also different because Otani is a player who is going to play in the Majors right away. He's not going to come up through the minors.

 

Go find all the articles written about Otani and this stuff. You'll understand what's going on better, and why what you're talking about is under close scrutiny by MLB.