DH 2018

[Doctor Wu]

I realize he's not even on the 40-man roster, and was signed previous to Falvey and Levine taking the helm, plus he had his ups and downs in AAA this year, and at this point he's a distant thought in most fan's minds .... but I'm still very, very curious to see what Park could do if given a chance. His performance last year in Spring Training was so impressive (okay, it was "only" ST, but still, the guy mashed!) that I'd love to see how he handles playing 1B/DH duty when healthy.

[Loosey]

 

Who says Mauer is done after next year? 

 

But to answer the original question, and I'd be fine with Santana, how about Jose Bautista? Probably be reasonable price, and he hits better at Target Field than anyone.

If Bautista takes a 1-2 year deal sign me up to be on board with this one.

[Loosey]

 

I think Garver should have gotten more AB this season so we know what we have. But he didn't so I don't think the Twins can reasonably expect much from him next year. They certainly shouldn't plan for him to be a solution to something. 

The only "bad" thing coming out of the Twins making the playoffs was they weren't able to audition and get young guys AB's and starts at the MLB level that probably would have if the team stunk.  Now they will need to work for it going forward and have them fill in when stuff happens and see if they can Wally Pipp others.

[gunnarthor]

 

The only "bad" thing coming out of the Twins making the playoffs was they weren't able to audition and get young guys AB's and starts at the MLB level that probably would have if the team stunk.  Now they will need to work for it going forward and have them fill in when stuff happens and see if they can Wally Pipp others.

I'm not sure if that's because the Twins were good or because Molitor isn't a good manager. I would have given Garver nearly all of Vargas' at-bats. We knew what we had in him and it wasn't much. Garver - esp in the second half of the season after he dominated AAA - should have gotten those at bats.

[Loosey]

 

I'm not sure if that's because the Twins were good or because Molitor isn't a good manager. I would have given Garver nearly all of Vargas' at-bats. We knew what we had in him and it wasn't much. Garver - esp in the second half of the season after he dominated AAA - should have gotten those at bats.

I do agree with you on that.  He should have received more of those shares of AB's.  

 

 

[stringer bell]

Here's a name from outside the organization: Nicholas Castellanos. The Tigers made him available in August and no one claimed him. The bat is solid 26 HR 101 RBI, .811 OPS. He hits righty and plays two positions (not well) OF and 3B. He'd be an alternative in RF if Kepler continued to flail against LH pitching and a backup option at third if Sano can't stay there and Escobar reverts to being a utility infielder.

[jimmer]

 

Here's a name from outside the organization: Nicholas Castellanos. The Tigers made him available in August and no one claimed him. The bat is solid 26 HR 101 RBI, .811 OPS. He hits righty and plays two positions (not well) OF and 3B. He'd be an alternative in RF if Kepler continued to flail against LH pitching and a backup option at third if Sano can't stay there and Escobar reverts to being a utility infielder.

He stinks.  Hopefully, we avoid him like the plague.

[Rosterman]

The Twins do have a number of candidates depending on roster makeup. Sano can, with Escobar handling third. Mauer can, if you have Vargas or Park as backup at first. Dozier can down the line. Better to ask who is the Twins DH come 2019 or 2020. If it is going to be Sano, then you have to address who will play third. If Dozier is signed and can move into that spot (or first base), fine too. Mauer is still the white elephant. What to do with Joe when his contract runs out. Keep him at first for ever (who are viable replacements in the system...Rooker?). But the Twins could use a solid bench bat not named Grossman (again, if Granite can be the 4th outfielder). 

 

And Garver can be in the mix, depending on the need for a third catcher, and Molitor never seemed locked into benching your reserve catcher in  a game.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If Garver qualified in AAA, he'd have had the 2nd highest OPS in his league.....how much better would his hitting need to be to think he might hit in the majors?

 

edit: I'm not arguing he should be the DH, I'm arguing that his track record is "good hitter".

While I hope Garver becomes dominant, he had all of ~325 good plate appearances in AAA. He was entirely pedestrian before that point (and has been old for his level every step of the way).

 

His track record isn't very good, it's just at a peak right now.

[gunnarthor]

 

Here's a name from outside the organization: Nicholas Castellanos. The Tigers made him available in August and no one claimed him. The bat is solid 26 HR 101 RBI, .811 OPS. He hits righty and plays two positions (not well) OF and 3B. He'd be an alternative in RF if Kepler continued to flail against LH pitching and a backup option at third if Sano can't stay there and Escobar reverts to being a utility infielder.

His bat is solid enough but at this point he's probably DH only. Now, that said, RF in Comerica Park is a entirely different animal than RF in pretty much any other park. So he probably wouldn't be quite as bad as the numbers said but he'd still be really bad.

 

He's under contract for two more years and his bat would probably profile pretty well in TF. He's still quite young and relatively cheap. He put up a 110 OPS+ last year which was better than Grossman, Escobar and Vargas and those three might get a lot of DH time next year. It was also a lot better than Kepler.

He'd be a possible back up at third and RF but he'd be really bad at both so that's not much help. But if we thought Sano could hold down third he wouldn't be the worst DH option we could find. I'm just not sure we shouldn't have DH set aside for Sano. And Castellanos is another high strike out guy.

 

I'd probably hope we go another way but it's not a horrible idea, esp if the FO thinks his bat plays up more in TF and/or they think they can improve his defense a bit.

[kab21]

I would say go and get Carlos Santana or JD Martinez and add to a good but not great (yet) offense if not for the Sano Q mark. The reality is that the team needs to hold open the DH spot for 40+ games of Sano and I don't think you can sign (for significant money) a full time DH. Yes, Santana could bump Mauer from the lineup or JD could bump an OF'er from the lineup but I don't think that is a good option if Sano needs extended DH time.

 

DH next year 

Sano 40 games (a big unknown with his injury)

Grossman 60+ games

Rosario/Kepler 10 games

Garver 10 games

Mauer 10 games

Escobar 10 games

22 games leftover for the above mix of players

 

Vargas could be a factor but I don't know you can make a bench of Garver, Grossman, Escobar, Adrianza and Vargas work for an extended period of time. All but Adrianza is potentially a better hitter than Vargas (not terrible at hitting) while adding a lot more positional versatility.

[Twodogs]

I think that the era of a specific DH has gone. Most good teams use the DH spot to rest some of their regulars in a rotation basis, or specific regulars who are nursing particular injuries. This allows greater roster flexibility.

I see a lot of what you are saying, so if that is the case where most of the time the DH is a rotating spot to rest regulars whereas the guys like Edgar Martinez, David Ortiz, Don Baylor's are gone or maybe going away, should MLB then look to get rid of the DH??? I know at one point the union would have fought it tooth and nail because they were protecting guys like Edgar Martinez, etc... But if those guys are going away, shouldn't they just get rid of it?? Just a thought

[USAFChief]

I think that the era of a specific DH has gone. Most good teams use the DH spot to rest some of their regulars in a rotation basis, or specific regulars who are nursing particular injuries. This allows greater roster flexibility.

 

The two best teams in the AL, Cleveland and Houston, used full time DHs.

 

If you have legit extra bats on your bench, you can get by without one. But most teams don't. Using Robbie Grossman as a DH instead of Edwin Encarnacion because Grossman can stand in a corner OF spot once in a while might add a bit of flexibility, but it costs more runs than it helps.

[Mike Sixel]

While I hope Garver becomes dominant, he had all of ~325 good plate appearances in AAA. He was entirely pedestrian before that point (and has been old for his level every step of the way).

 

His track record isn't very good, it's just at a peak right now.

So hitter of year two years ago is bad track record?

[stringer bell]

While Garver may or may not have been the best hitter in the minors the last two years, I think it points out the lack of hitters that are in the Twins' organization, especially in the high minors. Garver is not young for the level he has played either.

 

If he's serviceable behind the plate, I think he'll hit enough to be a major leaguer, but I haven't seen enough out of him to believe he'll develop into even a regular. I don't think they can consider Garver to get DH plate appearances.

[USAFChief]

While Garver may or may not have been the best hitter in the minors the last two years, I think it points out the lack of hitters that are in the Twins' organization, especially in the high minors. Garver is not young for the level he has played either.

 

If he's serviceable behind the plate, I think he'll hit enough to be a major leaguer, but I haven't seen enough out of him to believe he'll develop into even a regular. I don't think they can consider Garver to get DH plate appearances.

Concur.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So hitter of year two years ago is bad track record?

I don't understand. When he had a .750 OPS in Chattanooga?

[jimmer]

 

I don't understand. When he had a .750 OPS in Chattanooga?

Pardon me Brock, is that the Chattanooga Choo Choo? :-)

[Thegrin]

It has been reported that Sano "loves" playing 3B.  Since that is the case, The Twins should continue to play Sano at 3rd as often as possible.  Forget DHing him.  A happy Sano makes for a happy Twins Team.

[kab21]

 

It has been reported that Sano "loves" playing 3B.  Since that is the case, The Twins should continue to play Sano at 3rd as often as possible.  Forget DHing him.  A happy Sano makes for a happy Twins Team.

There is also the uncertainty of his maybe needing surgery or rehab for his leg. It isn't a matter of let's DH Sano for fun. There is a new injury concern in addition to him wearing down during a season as a full time 3B. And Escobar is arguably a better defender at the position.

But I don't really know the Twins plans for Sano for next season or the confidence level that the FO thinks Sano can play 150+ games at 3B. If I was very confident that Sano wouldn't need time at DH then I would make a push for Carlos Santana or JD Martinez. But the Twins FO would have to be okayed for a sizable payroll increase since pitching and more pitching are higher priorities.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Brock Beauchamp, on 15 Oct 2017 - 8:31 PM, said:

I don't understand. When he had a .750 OPS in Chattanooga?

I'm not sure what the debate here is. He also had an .820 OPS in Rochester that year. Granted only 84 PAs, but not a meaningless number... and he OPS over .900 this season while being younger (albeit not much) than his league. So yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he can hit. And given that he's a catcher and .750 OPS out of a decent defending C would be a very VERY good player, I don't think we should sell that short.

As a DH... for occasional reps, why not?

I have no problem, I might add, getting a professional hitter here. I was hoping Vargas or Park could turn into that guy, as having a dangerous bat off the bench when you choose to give someone a rest has it's own strategic value. Ultimately, they wanted relief pitchers. Smart moves this offseason should eliminate the need to carry 13 pitchers and allow for it. Whether they have the resources to get a full time hitter, starting pitcher, and a shut down reliever remains to be seen, and I'll sacrifice the DH first if I have to make that choice.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Brock Beauchamp, on 15 Oct 2017 - 8:31 PM, said:

I don't understand. When he had a .750 OPS in Chattanooga?

I'm not sure what the debate here is. He also had an .820 OPS in Rochester that year. Granted only 84 PAs, but not a meaningless number... and he OPS over .900 this season while being younger (albeit not much) than his league. So yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he can hit. And given that he's a catcher and .750 OPS out of a decent defending C would be a very VERY good player, I don't think we should sell that short.

As a DH... for occasional reps, why not?

I have no problem, I might add, getting a professional hitter here. I was hoping Vargas or Park could turn into that guy, as having a dangerous bat off the bench when you choose to give someone a rest has it's own strategic value. Ultimately, they wanted relief pitchers. Smart moves this offseason should eliminate the need to carry 13 pitchers and allow for it. Whether they have the resources to get a full time hitter, starting pitcher, and a shut down reliever remains to be seen, and I'll sacrifice the DH first if I have to make that choice.

84 PAs is pretty meaningless. It’s three weeks of ball.

 

I’m not knocking Garver because if he can catch, those numbers look good. But as a DH? Nah. Remember, Chris Parmelee put up something like a 1.100 OPS in ~250 MiLB plate appearances at one point.

 

If Garver is going to DH, he’ll have to get there like Mauer (ie. his bat is so good behind the plate you can’t keep him out of the lineup). And I’m incredibly skeptical that will happen.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

84 PAs is pretty meaningless. It’s three weeks of ball.

I’m not knocking Garver because if he can catch, those numbers look good. But as a DH? Nah. Remember, Chris Parmelee put up something like a 1.100 OPS in ~250 MiLB plate appearances at one point.

If Garver is going to DH, he’ll have to get there like Mauer (ie. his bat is so good behind the plate you can’t keep him out of the lineup). And I’m incredibly skeptical that will happen.

 

That's a fair take. I just think he can be an above average bat. I agree it won't be young Mauer above average, but I have no problem with Garver getting some DH reps in there to stay fresh.

[DocBauer]

From what little I got to see, and from what I have read, I think Garver has the chops to be a solid to quality catcher with above average offense. Totally happy having him concentrate on that job.

 

Assuming the off season concentration is on pitching and there just isn't that one big bat to bring in, and assuming Sano can play 3B, I'm a little intrigued by Grossman as the primary DH.

 

I don't have the numbers available on hand at the moment, but I projected his past 2 seasons combined over 500 AB and they were interesting; 30+ doubles and low double digit HR if I recall. A little more LH/RH balance hitting with his OB ability and I wonder about he and Mauer helping set the table.

 

Molitor used him a lot to flip the lineup the last month. Could he and Mauer at the top of the order allow Dozier to slide down to a better RBI spot?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I realize he's not even on the 40-man roster, and was signed previous to Falvey and Levine taking the helm, plus he had his ups and downs in AAA this year, and at this point he's a distant thought in most fan's minds .... but I'm still very, very curious to see what Park could do if given a chance. His performance last year in Spring Training was so impressive (okay, it was "only" ST, but still, the guy mashed!) that I'd love to see how he handles playing 1B/DH duty when healthy.

hes a distant thought in my mind

[Darius]

If I were managing, it wouldn't be either Sano or Mauer about 80-90% of the time, with Escobar at third.

[jimmer]

 

hes a distant thought in my mind

I had completely forgotten about him still being with the organization, though I never bought into him in the first place.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If I were managing, it wouldn't be either Sano or Mauer about 80-90% of the time, with Escobar at third.

if Sano isn’t the full time third baseman in 2018, id like Sano to play first base regularly. Maybe have Mauer and Sano rotate. First and DH.

 

Of course first choice would be Sano to be primary third base and have Esco rotate through second and third once or twice a week.

[Brandon]

The Twins could use a RH power hitter for the middle of the lineup.  The lineup is a little lefty leaning.  There will be several options available as power hitting 1B is an excess on the market.  We can sign one who is still on the market lingering to a 1 year contract as Rooker or Palka should be ready at some point.  Park could make it as well. and we have internal rotation options as well (Vargas, Grossman, Escobar, Garver or whoever they swap out for defensively).  

 

If the Twins go out and sign a hitter then its likely that one of Vargas or Grossman will get cut in spring training.  Neither will be too expensive my guess is Vargas, but a RH power hitter will give the lineup more balance and the FA signee will not likely get 500 AB unless there is injuries on the team because of matchup and rotating door for others to DH.  Also i suspect that if they sign someone they will not likely make over 5 million next year so it won't be a big drain on the budget so we can go after pitching.  

[Oldgoat_MN]

Everybody wants a 40 year old Big Papi (when he led the league in doubles, SLG & OPS) to be their DH. Let's look at who is really doing the DHing in MLB.

There were 19 players who had 200 PA or more in 2017 at DH.

Grossman was 7th in wRC+ and 12th in OPS. Above average & below average.

Vargas was 9th in wRC+ and 7th in OPS. Above average & above average.

 

Not sure I'd write off Vargas yet.

He's cheap, and pitching is where the Twins money should be going.