Monitor: Manager of the Year and Fired?

[caninatl04]

Aside from the first team to go from 100 losses to the playoffs (sort of), they may also be the first team to fire a manager just before that manager wins manager of the year.

 

Maybe Molitor can turn the Tigers around.

[akmanak]

Fire him. He can't manage a bullpen and is way over his head.

[Platoon]

It's going to be an interesting situation. MOY or not. While I imagine the Pohlad Protection Policy no longer is in total effect, the remnants of it linger over Falvines head. I would love to see Molitor gone, and since there has not been an iota of leaked speculation about a contract extension of him, it would seem Falvine does also. They have let him dangle in the breeze as a lame duck all year. I wonder if they feel a little like Mark Coyle and the U of M president when the Gophers won their bowl game, and they had already decided to fire the coach? The looks on their faces after the game was priceless.

[old nurse]

Davey Johnson is somewhere having a meltdown because somebody forgot about him.

[Respy]

Sorry I don't feel like Molitor deserves a manager-of-the-year.  In his own words, he just doesn't pass the "eye test."  His bullpen usage has been questionable.  His lineup construction is odd and fluctuates constantly.  His play by play calls don't seem to dictate gameflow.  Maybe the players feel otherwise, but I haven't exactly heard a lot of praise from the players toward Molitor.  

 

Any manager who leads my favorite team to the playoffs: I am happy.  But I don't think he'll be in consideration for any awards.

[wsnydes]

 

Davey Johnson is somewhere having a meltdown because somebody forgot about him.

Wasn't Joe Girardi in the same situation in Miami?  

 

I'm not a Molitor fan at all.  Bullpen management, odd lineups, refusal to platoon players; I think this team wins despite him.  I think what Platoon said a few posts above makes sense.  If they were serious about extending him, you'd think there would be at least a whiff of conversation about it.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Molitor's insistence on bunting against all statistics and research alone is enough to get him fired. If you are going with a statistically minded team you cannot have a manager who consistently gives away outs while simultaneously reducing the chances of scoring a run.

The work has been done. The data is clear.

If he wants to play 1960's baseball he should do it somewhere else.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Can you fire someone who doesn't have a contract? It isn't really a firing if he just coached/played out his contract and didn't get offered a new deal, right?

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Wasn't Joe Girardi in the same situation in Miami?  

Girardi managed the Marlins in 2006. They finished 4th in their division with a 78-84 record.

Edit: and yes, he was NL Manager of the Year for 2006.

[mazeville]

Molitor is not going to get fired.

 

And he does not deserve to be fired. They are on the verge of being the only team to go from 100-plus losses to the playoffs. They've improved by more than 20 wins this year, more than even the most optimistic prognostications.

 

I do not see the problem with his bullpen usage, given that his bullpen has been little more than a bunch of spare parts. His lineup construction is fine. 

 

I vehemently disagree with his bunting tactics, but it's hardly the fireable offense people on here say it is. 

 

Numerous players have responded to in-season coaching. The fielding is infinitely better this year. Players like Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton have gone from busts to season saviors. The team has avoided losing streaks longer than 4 games.

 

Molitor has done wonders without the benefit of much pitching or a bullpen or a lineup that for part of the year was little more than Sano and a collection of underperforming youngsters. Give the dude a break.

[Riverbrian]

 

Falvey: Thank you for your efforts but we won't be renewing your contract. 

 

Molitor: What? Why?

 

Falvey: We felt that with the additions of Castro, Gimenez, Belisle, Turley and what's his name. 

 

Molitor: Breslow

 

Falvey: Yes Breslow... We felt that you should have won the AL Central

 

 

Molitor: Do I leave my keys with you?

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

 

Molitor's insistence on bunting against all statistics and research alone is enough to get him fired. If you are going with a statistically minded team you cannot have a manager who consistently gives away outs while simultaneously reducing the chances of scoring a run.

The work has been done. The data is clear.

If he wants to play 1960's baseball he should do it somewhere else.

Concur.

 

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

Fire him. He can't manage a bullpen and is way over his head.

 

What bullpen?

[ThejacKmp]

 

Can you fire someone who doesn't have a contract? It isn't really a firing if he just coached/played out his contract and didn't get offered a new deal, right?

 

Dougie seems to think you can.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Molitor is not going to get fired.

 

And he does not deserve to be fired. They are on the verge of being the only team to go from 100-plus losses to the playoffs. They've improved by more than 20 wins this year, more than even the most optimistic prognostications.

 

I do not see the problem with his bullpen usage, given that his bullpen has been little more than a bunch of spare parts. His lineup construction is fine. 

 

I vehemently disagree with his bunting tactics, but it's hardly the fireable offense people on here say it is. 

 

Numerous players have responded to in-season coaching. The fielding is infinitely better this year. Players like Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton have gone from busts to season saviors. The team has avoided losing streaks longer than 4 games.

 

Molitor has done wonders without the benefit of much pitching or a bullpen or a lineup that for part of the year was little more than Sano and a collection of underperforming youngsters. Give the dude a break.

 

This is how I feel. Every point is spot on. I hate the bunting too but I don't think it's unfixable and the other complaints are typical fan complaints. I've also never heard a single whisper of conflict between Molitor and the front office. He didn't bad mouth them after the trades, he hasn't complained about roster construction even though his job was clearly on the line, there hasn't been any public butting of heads over statistics - it's seemed like a good relationship. 

 

What I think is going to be interesting is, assuming they talk extension with him, how much leverage does he have? Will they offer two years or something bigger? Will they walk away if he wants more? It seems obvious that even if circumstances force the new FO to stick with Molitor, they're not going to want to commit long-term. And I don't know if Molitor has enough of a name to tell them to stuff it and know he'll get another shot with a team as posed for success as the Twins appear to be.

[terrydactyls]

Here is an alternative scenario. If I were Molitor, I would take this opportunity to call Bud Grant and say: "You want to spend next summer fishing with me?" I have plenty of money so that isn't an issue. I just took a team of players that that was comprised mostly of guys no one last April would have traded for and led them into the playoffs. I am constantly disparaged by fans for being a poor manager. I think I will just raise a figurative middle finger to everyone and ride off into the sunset. I am too much of a Minnesotan to actually raise a middle finger but the thought is there. However, if the front office comes to me and begs me to stay (and offers me a nice extension), then I might return because I do love the game.

[wsnydes]

 

This is how I feel. Every point is spot on. I hate the bunting too but I don't think it's unfixable and the other complaints are typical fan complaints. I've also never heard a single whisper of conflict between Molitor and the front office. He didn't bad mouth them after the trades, he hasn't complained about roster construction even though his job was clearly on the line, there hasn't been any public butting of heads over statistics - it's seemed like a good relationship. 

 

What I think is going to be interesting is, assuming they talk extension with him, how much leverage does he have? Will they offer two years or something bigger? Will they walk away if he wants more? It seems obvious that even if circumstances force the new FO to stick with Molitor, they're not going to want to commit long-term. And I don't know if Molitor has enough of a name to tell them to stuff it and know he'll get another shot with a team as posed for success as the Twins appear to be.

I think you make good and valid points.  However, I wonder how much analytics plays into this decision.  My guess is quite a bit.  The new FO is far more analytical than what we've seen in these parts previously.  There are areas where Molitor has improved, but I don't know that he embraces the analytics as much as the FO may want him too.  That's speculation on my part, but the amount of bunting that he does call for at any point in a game point in that direction in my opinion.  Molitor's incessant bunting (I agree, not a fireable offense on its own), refusal to platoon players based on their splits and a tendency to use bullpen pitchers against their splits (Boshers and Breslow come to mind).  I don't see those as fan complaints.

 

Just because you don't have talent in the bullpen, it doesn't mean that you can't put the players that you do have in a situation to succeed.  Generally speaking, I think he's done a decent job of overall management by using his best arms in games when they're up and the less talented arms in blowout situations.  That is not my issue I also think that he's gotten a bit better in the second half, but that's also because Busenitz and Hildenberger have emerged.  However, the in-game management is still suspect (see relievers against their splits comment above).  I don't think that he was a great feel for the flow of the game in that regard.  Given the usage of the pen, I think that he's been lucky this year that there hasn't been any significant injuries to the horses in the bullpen.

 

Playing Adrianza in LF despite having Granite on the bench drives me insane.  Adrianza's bat isn't that much of a difference maker.  There's no question that some of the FO moves or lack thereof has handcuffed Molitor.  He can't be blamed for the players he's given.  He can be blamed for how he uses them though.  

 

I also tend to credit the assistant coaches with most of the improvement of individual players.  They're the ones that work with the players the most.  That's not to say that Molitor doesn't get any credit for it since I do feel that he's a good instructor.  However, a manager's job also has an in-game component to it.  I do not feel that it's a coincidence that a number of assistant coaches were added a to shore up the defense and improve the bats and that's exactly what happened.  

 

I'll finish by saying that I'm in the camp that feels that managers/head coaches get too much credit for winning and too much blame for losing.  I don't envy the FO in having to make this decision.  

[GCTF]

Waiting for Molly to be Ausmus'd in a day or two.

[Mike Sixel]

It would certainly lead to interesting narrative on both sides. Pretty tough call, if the FO feels he's not accepting enough of change and not good enough, to fire him. Pretty hard to keep though, if he's not aligned with how they want to work (we really don't know this one way or the other).

 

I don't envy them the choice, if there are differences. 

 

IMO, managers get way too much credit for a team over and under achieving. They probably get too little credit in some circles, because they are managing a team and coaches and doing a ton of non-in game work. I've been clear, I don't like how he manages in game. But I've also been clear, I have no idea what he does in the more important non-game work......

 

Either way, I hope they win the WS.....

[jimmer]

I hear a lot about platooning, but roster construction in todays game, with 5 man rotations and larger bullpens than before, doesnt lend itself to platooning as much as it did before.

 

25 man roster, 13 pitcher leaves 12 position players. 9 position players play in the AL (8 on the field, one at DH). There just isnt much room to move around and play splits as much as some seem to want.

[wsnydes]

 

I hear a lot about platooning, but roster construction in todays game, with 5 man rotations and larger bullpens than before, doesnt lend itself to platooning as much as it did before.

25 man roster, 13 pitcher leaves 12 position players. 9 position players play in the AL (8 on the field, one at DH). There just isnt much room to move around and play splits as much as some seem to want.

Fair point.  There have been large chunks of the season where the roster construction hasn't really given Molitor the possibility of spelling Mauer as much as he may have wanted as well.  The number of switch hitters on the roster plays into that as well.

[Linus]

I think he is really intelligent. He frequently makes observations about his players psyche which leads me to believe he is good at the off the field part of the job. He buns too much but that is pretty minor in the big picture. 2 of the 3 years he has managed his teams overachieved which is a better indication of his abilities than the nebulous stuff fans write about.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Molitor is intelligent but a little old school. I appreciate how he doesn't speak in cliches or play into false narratives others try to set him up for. Better the devil you know... That said, if this team embarrasses itself in NY one more time I don't care what happens to him.

[Dantes929]

I love bunting for hits and sacrifice not so much.    I don't like #3 guys doing it especially in the early innings unless its Polanco and he thinks he can get a hit, which really moves it from sacrifice category anyway.  It might have cost a few runs and maybe a game this year.  I'm not downplaying a game but like said before it seems to be addressable in his annual review.    
I don't think his bullpen management has been so bad but recognize the following facts so am not generally inclined to criticize.
1.  Gardy was criticized for not knowing when to pull pitchers.
2.  Kelly was criticized for not knowing when to pull pitchers.
3.  Insert name, any name (of a major league manager) ___ was criticized for not knowing when to pull pitchers.

Tons of fans were for firing Gardy even in that nice stretch we had and yet he was top 2 MOY 6 out of 7 years which tells me there were at least 13 managers ranked behind him in those years.   How bad were they if Gardy didn't know what HE was doing?
Do the coaches under Molitor do their job?
Do the players play hard under Molitor?
When thinking of good managers the only one that has that distinction in my mind, for whatever reason is Mike Sciosa though I am sure he has detractors also.    That's it.   Any one else that comes in I feel will likely just be a case of rearranging chairs rather than improving anything.  I could be wrong but in either direction.   New guy coming in could be worse or could be better.   I do know he will be criticized for bullpen management either way.

[Thrylos]

If the Twins were at 76-86 (or something) last season, Molitor would not be on the conversation for Manager of the Year.  And last season was (partially) Molitor's doing and that should be in consideration this season as well. 

 

I think that Molitor will follow the TK paradeigm (he is 10 years older than Kelly was when he retired), and opt out of the manager job, get to go teach kids, and leave with his head high as someone who led his team to the post-season after a while.

[Doomtints]

Molitor isn't the reason the Twins are finding themselves in the playoffs.

 

- "Improved defense" which is almost entirely attributed to having Buxton for the full year. Yes, Molitor has claimed credit for this, stating that before the season started he "had a talk" with the team about defense.

 

- An American league that will likely produce a grand total of 5 teams over .500.

 

- An MLB that had a down year for pitching and a power hitting renaissance, which means the weak Twins pitching is less of a liability. The teams with good pitching are all going to be in the playoffs, BTW.

 

What does Molitor truly deserve credit for? This is a legit question. I see essentially the same manager I saw last year, but with better hitting, defense, and pitching. He still sends guys to the minors at strange times, makes strange decisions for starting pitchers in spot-starts, holds people in the minors a little too long, doesn't know when to pull a pitcher from a game, etc. And yeah, some of you are itching to hit "reply" to say it's the front office making some of those decisions -- if that's true I'm not sure why Molitor claims credit for the decisions.

 

I'm sure he's a great guy, and hey, there might not be a better manager out there on the cheap. However, I'm not sure what is plusses are. The players are fighting on their own this year, and if you ask Molitor what happened, he wouldn't be able to tell you (apart from the first bullet point above: defense.  Which again, he thinks he alone fixed).

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Molitor is not going to get fired.

 

And he does not deserve to be fired. They are on the verge of being the only team to go from 100-plus losses to the playoffs. They've improved by more than 20 wins this year, more than even the most optimistic prognostications.

 

I do not see the problem with his bullpen usage, given that his bullpen has been little more than a bunch of spare parts. His lineup construction is fine. 

 

I vehemently disagree with his bunting tactics, but it's hardly the fireable offense people on here say it is. 

 

Numerous players have responded to in-season coaching. The fielding is infinitely better this year. Players like Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton have gone from busts to season saviors. The team has avoided losing streaks longer than 4 games.

 

Molitor has done wonders without the benefit of much pitching or a bullpen or a lineup that for part of the year was little more than Sano and a collection of underperforming youngsters. Give the dude a break.

if "Monitor" gets credit for improving 20+ games in the loss column from 2016 to 2017, does he get the blame for 2015-2016 24 game swing?

 

He's the same manager, making the same nonsensical decisions.

[Platoon]

Doomtints brought up an interesting observation I have also contemplated. Molitor is continually saying "I" decided..........., blah blah blah. While to me it seems it's his ego talking., one of two things have to be true. Either Falvine are abdicating their roster responsibilities and Molitor is actually in charge of all personnel issues, or Molitor is full of himself. He could solve that by simply using the word "we" on occasion. I would like to see him gone. Regardless of metrics, if you sac bunt you are playing for one run. And anyone who has this pitching staff and plays for one run, often as early as he does, has no feel for the game, or his roster. Lastly, I also have never seen anyone bring the IF in as early in a game as he does. While it hasn't been as big a disaster as it could have been, raising batting averages by about 100 points with a drawn in IF will sooner or later bite you on the same place he likes to see Vargas play!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Molitor isn't the reason the Twins are finding themselves in the playoffs.

 

- "Improved defense" which is almost entirely attributed to having Buxton for the full year. Yes, Molitor has claimed credit for this, stating that before the season started he "had a talk" with the team about defense.

 

- An American league that will likely produce a grand total of 5 teams over .500.

 

- An MLB that had a down year for pitching and a power hitting renaissance, which means the weak Twins pitching is less of a liability. The teams with good pitching are all going to be in the playoffs, BTW.

 

What does Molitor truly deserve credit for? This is a legit question. I see essentially the same manager I saw last year, but with better hitting, defense, and pitching. He still sends guys to the minors at strange times, makes strange decisions for starting pitchers in spot-starts, holds people in the minors a little too long, doesn't know when to pull a pitcher from a game, etc. And yeah, some of you are itching to hit "reply" to say it's the front office making some of those decisions -- if that's true I'm not sure why Molitor claims credit for the decisions.

 

I'm sure he's a great guy, and hey, there might not be a better manager out there on the cheap. However, I'm not sure what is plusses are. The players are fighting on their own this year, and if you ask Molitor what happened, he wouldn't be able to tell you (apart from the first bullet point above: defense.  Which again, he thinks he alone fixed).

I was someone going to rebut with the "but the GM makes that call", however there's a point that the manager must have some influence on who the GM brings up or sends down. 

 

In the Yahoo sports Jeff Passan article about Buxton,  James Rowson was actively trying to keep Buxton up in the majors so he could work with him, who the FO was trying to send him to AAA "Already Minnesota had discussed sending him to Triple-A once again, hopeful something would click. Twins hitting coach James Rowson implored the Twins front office to hold off.". The idea that Molitor and Rowson might have been the two baseball operations people arguing with Levine the moderator puts a different lens on the situation. Sending Buxton to AAA doesn't seem to jive with what Levine has done so far, but does seem to jive with the previous regime, which makes the wild conjecture a little less wild.   

 

 

[Doomtints]

No question that Buxton needed to be with the team, batting at the bottom of the order until he started to see the ball and get his timing down. This was absolutely the right call. If Buxton spends any significant time in AAA this year, the Twins don't make the playoffs and don't finish over .500.