Why Can't Mauer Drive the Ball to RF?

[DrNeau]

Topic: MECHANICALLY, WHY can Joe Mauer NOT drive the ball to RF. 

 

Topic is not: 

* Me, personally

* My personal hate for Joe Mauer

* Jealousy of contract

* How good Joe Mauer's OBP is

 

This is ridiculous. He is a 6'5" 230-lb American League first baseman and can hardly ever drive the ball to his pull side. What is up with this? Seriously. 

[Hrbowski]

 

Topic: MECHANICALLY, WHY can Joe Mauer NOT drive the ball to RF. 

 

Topic is not: 

* Me, personally

* My personal hate for Joe Mauer

* Jealousy of contract

* How good Joe Mauer's OBP is

 

This is ridiculous. He is a 6'5" 230-lb American League first baseman and can hardly ever drive the ball to his pull side. What is up with this? Seriously. 

It isn't that he can't, but rather that he is trying to drive the ball to left. This isn't any bigger of a concern that when a player can't drive the ball the other way, which we see quite frequently in the big leagues.

[DrNeau]

 

It isn't that he can't, but rather that he is trying to drive the ball to left. This isn't any bigger of a concern that when a player can't drive the ball the other way, which we see quite frequently in the big leagues.

 

Please demonstrate that Joe Mauer can drive the ball to RF. Once you're done, refer back to topic.

[Hrbowski]

 

Please demonstrate that Joe Mauer can drive the ball to RF. Once you're done, refer back to topic.

Vs. Andrew Miller:

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/mauers-solo-home-run/c-997638583?tid=7417714

[flags]

he's not a pull hitter. he's been in the league since 2004 and has never been a pull hitter. he's never going to be a pull hitter. it has nothing to do with mechanics.

[Bill Brown69]

The same reason 95% of hitters can't beat a shift.

 

By the time you get established as a MLB player things are so ingrained it might take years to change.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Because he doesn't have a drivers license?

[USAFChief]

His inability to pull the ball definately hurts his power. Most home runs are pulled, that's just the mechanics and physics of baseball.

 

If you're ok with that, fine.

 

But don't pretend that's not the case.

[twinsnorth49]

It's amazing this hasn't been discussed before........oh wait.

[Taildragger8791]

 

It's amazing this hasn't been discussed before........oh wait.

 

I think the poster made a reasonable attempt to limit the scope of the question to Mauer's swing mechanics, not mentality or value as a player, which is fair. I've wondered this myself. For his size and talent level it seems like Mauer should be able to do more than spray the ball to left field gaps. Turning on a pitch is such a natural thing for most players that they have to be heavily coached away from it, but Mauer seems to have no instinct for it at all. It's hard to believe he isn't capable, but when he tried to do it a couple years ago it was a disaster. So it seems like there's something physical at play here.

[70charger]

Clearly you've never seen his spray chart. He can. He just apparently doesn't do it as much as you, personally, would like.

 

Frankly, your list of things that "this topic is not" is utterly implausible.

 

There are also other players on this team. Just FYI.

[KirbyDome89]

Why do people think that at 34, Mauer is suddenly going to turn into something he has never been. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Mauer has a flat swing. Is this news?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Clearly you've never seen his spray chart. He can. He just apparently doesn't do it as much as you, personally, would like.

 

Frankly, your list of things that "this topic is not" is utterly implausible.

 

There are also other players on this team. Just FYI.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.beyondtheboxscore.com/platform/amp/2017/7/14/15955698/michael-brantley-indians-all-star-pull-power-joe-mauer

 

Ok, we've overcome that obstacle. Still seems very clear that if Joe lifts a ball to left, he pops it up. The article is a good read, btw.

 

As to the video of Joe pulling the home run, it was only one, and it was a year ago.

 

I wish I could do a Parker, but I don't have either the computer expertise or baseball mechanics expertise, bit I'd like the answer too.

[Platoon]

A lot of Mauers success as a hitter, for average, has been waiting on the ball. His hands always seem ahead of the bat so to speak. Classic inside out swing. I think the poster has a point, it's a mechanical issue, when he tries to pull the ball he rolls over it. The same thing that made him a line drive gap machine, keeps him from being a power pull hitter. And just because he does not pull the ball into the seats, does not change the fact that he is definitely in the upper percentile of players who have ever played the game. Possibly his biggest drawback is he suffers from Rod Carew Syndrome. Everything looks so easy, he appears not to be trying.

[AlwaysinModeration]

It's funny, I was just thinking about how, as a Red Sock, Joe Mauer would effortlessly bounce the ball off of the Green Monster just about every other at bat.

 

I think that platoon is right. He purposely lets the ball get deep into the zone in order to judge whether it's a strike, and thus hits the ball the other way. It's on purpose, and it's part of the reason why he has such a great career on-base percentage. His line-drive, opposite field, high on-base approach still works just fine from my perspective. And consistently batting second seems like a good place for him.

 

Now, of teams would just go back to playing straight-up defense against him instead of shifting...and he switched to using maple bats...

[USAFChief]

It's funny, I was just thinking about how, as a Red Sock, Joe Mauer would effortlessly bounce the ball off of the Green Monster just about every other at bat.

 

Seems like that should be true, but

 

Mauer, career at Fenway: 143 PAs .260/.343/.417 .760 OPS, 14 XBHs.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=mauerjo01&year=Career&t=b

 

I think the LFer playing shallow actually hurts him. On the other hand, it's only 143 PAs, so who knows?

[Ebby Calvin Laloosh]

I think it's the short porch in left at CDH. It was too easy to hit a ball into The Nook, grooved his swing for that and hasn't been able to change. It's a shame really, I think he could have been a good hitter...

[Doubles]

I seem to say this a lot, but again, I don't think most people realize how difficult hitting a baseball really is.

 

One thing I know for certain- the vast majority of people, even baseball fans- have no idea the long hours of work & repetition that go into honing a professional ball player's swing. A baseball swing is very much like a golf swing. Players work endlessly to make their swings effective, efficient, and repeatable.

 

Now let's take Mauer's case in particular. Number one overall pick out of high school. Universally praised as the top catcher and hitter in his class. Only catcher in MLB history to win three batting titles. 2009 AL MVP.

 

Remember when Gardy would be asked about Joe's swing, and how maybe he should focus on being more of a power hitter / run producer? Grady's standard response would be to roll his eyes, read off Joe's resume, and say something to the effect of, "Only a fool would mess with that swing."

 

So, up until 2010, Mauer was 100% on a Hall of Fame career arc. Putting up heretofore unprecedented numbers for a catcher. Then stuff happened.

 

The move out of The Dome and into Target Field seriously impacted Joe's power numbers. Think of all those warning track fly balls; those would fly into the first five rows of seats in The Dome.

 

Then the conky issues. Impossible to quantify, but impossible to deny their impact. We all know Joe hasn't been the same hitter since. That said, he's still pretty damn good.

 

Now we're in the age of defensive shifts. I would bet Mauer is on the short list of players who have been most adversely affected by exaggerated shifts. That swing he has spent countless hours maximizing and making so repeatable- is kind of working against him in a weird way. Teams are using the uncanny repeatability of his swing against him to narrow down the areas where he has the most tendency to hit the ball.

 

One last thing- Joe's also now 34 years old. Lots of things are working against him now, many of which I've tried to explain here. And yes, Joe has taken plenty of criticism- including from Twins TV analyst Bert Blyleven- about not making certain adjustments over time. I'm not really sure how I want to wrap this post up, other than to point out that Joe Mauer's swing, for all the criticism that it's taken, has been many, many years of hard work and countless hours in the making. I'm not so sure changing it up at this point is nearly as simple as saying, "Ahhh, think I'mma become a pull hitter now."

[Platoon]

Seems like that should be true, but

Mauer, career at Fenway: 143 PAs .260/.343/.417 .760 OPS, 14 XBHs.https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=mauerjo01&year=Career&t=b

I think the LFer playing shallow actually hurts him. On the other hand, it's only 143 PAs, so who knows?

As your post shows perception can be illusionary. As can batting orders. Mauer has suffered? from being miscast as a 3 or 4 hitter. Of course I have also heard that the was adamant in his desire to hit 3, but is this true, or urban legend? For years I thought he would have made a wonderful leadoff hitter. He didn't have classic speed, but ran well enough not to clog the bases, and was a fairly astute baserunner.

[jimmer]

 

So, up until 2010 his concussion, Mauer was 100% on a Hall of Fame career arc. Putting up heretofore unprecedented numbers for a catcher. Then stuff happened.

 

FTFY

 

Cause if you look at his numbers until his concussion(to include 2010 which was the first year out of the dome up until the season he was having when he had the concussion) he had some very good seasons.  .871 OPS in 2010, .861 in 2012, .880 in 2013 (when he had his concussion). All of those were seasons where his OPS+ was 140 or higher.  It wasn't the move out of the dome. It was the concussion and I believe the expansion of the called strike zone, which will really hurt hitters who have very good eyes at the plate.

 

And he only had one real year where he was a power hitter anyway. 2009 was an outlier season for power.

[drjim]

I seem to say this a lot, but again, I don't think most people realize how difficult hitting a baseball really is.

 

One thing I know for certain- the vast majority of people, even baseball fans- have no idea the long hours of work & repetition that go into honing a professional ball player's swing. A baseball swing is very much like a golf swing. Players work endlessly to make their swings effective, efficient, and repeatable.

 

Now let's take Mauer's case in particular. Number one overall pick out of high school. Universally praised as the top catcher and hitter in his class. Only catcher in MLB history to win three batting titles. 2009 AL MVP.

 

Remember when Gardy would be asked about Joe's swing, and how maybe he should focus on being more of a power hitter / run producer? Grady's standard response would be to roll his eyes, read off Joe's resume, and say something to the effect of, "Only a fool would mess with that swing."

 

So, up until 2010, Mauer was 100% on a Hall of Fame career arc. Putting up heretofore unprecedented numbers for a catcher. Then stuff happened.

 

The move out of The Dome and into Target Field seriously impacted Joe's power numbers. Think of all those warning track fly balls; those would fly into the first five rows of seats in The Dome.

 

Then the conky issues. Impossible to quantify, but impossible to deny their impact. We all know Joe hasn't been the same hitter since. That said, he's still pretty damn good.

 

Now we're in the age of defensive shifts. I would bet Mauer is on the short list of players who have been most adversely affected by exaggerated shifts. That swing he has spent countless hours maximizing and making so repeatable- is kind of working against him in a weird way. Teams are using the uncanny repeatability of his swing against him to narrow down the areas where he has the most tendency to hit the ball.

 

One last thing- Joe's also now 34 years old. Lots of things are working against him now, many of which I've tried to explain here. And yes, Joe has taken plenty of criticism- including from Twins TV analyst Bert Blyleven- about not making certain adjustments over time. I'm not really sure how I want to wrap this post up, other than to point out that Joe Mauer's swing, for all the criticism that it's taken, has been many, many years of hard work and countless hours in the making. I'm not so sure changing it up at this point is nearly as simple as saying, "Ahhh, think I'mma become a pull hitter now."

Real good post. If Mauer was going to be a pull hitter it would have to happened 15 years ago. This is the answer to the question.

 

Feel free to keep asking, but the answer won't change.

[DrNeau]

 

 

FTFY

 

Cause if you look at his numbers until his concussion(to include 2010 which was the first year out of the dome up until the season he was having when he had the concussion) he had some very good seasons.  .871 OPS in 2010, .861 in 2012, .880 in 2013 (when he had his concussion). All of those were seasons where his OPS+ was 140 or higher.  It wasn't the move out of the dome. It was the concussion and I believe the expansion of the called strike zone, which will really hurt hitters who have very good eyes at the plate.

 

And he only had one real year where he was a power hitter anyway. 2009 was an outlier season for power.

 

So, you think Joe Mauer can't drive the ball to RF because:

 

* He was on a HOF arc up until his concussion.
* His OPS was better prior to the concussion.
* He only had one real year when he was a power hitter.

 

 

[drjim]

So, Joe Mauer can't drive the ball to RF because:

* People don't realize how difficult hitting a baseball is.

* People have no idea how much work goes in to honing a swing.

* Overall #1, 3 batting titles, and 2009 AL MVP.

* Gardy did not make Joe work on his swing.

* He was on a HOF arc up until his concussion.

* His OPS was better prior to the concussion.

* He only had one real year when he was a power hitter.

* Defensive shifts have adversely affected him.

* Joe is 34 years old.

* Joe has taken plenty of criticism for not making adjustments.

* Joe has worked on his swing for many years and changing it would be difficult.

 

Okay. Thanks for quantifying this for me.

Wrong lesson from that post.

 

He doesn't drive balls into right field because he spent his entire life honing a swing that was not condusive to that type of result. It was good enough for 3 batting titles, an MVP and a hall of fame pace before multiple brain and other body part injuries derailed his career.

 

Now he is at a time in his career that he can't shift 15-20 years of muscle memory and overcome his physical limitations to make that type of adjustment.

[Doubles]

So, according to your post, Joe Mauer can't drive the ball to RF because:

 

* People don't realize how difficult hitting a baseball is.

* People have no idea how much work goes in to honing a swing.

* Overall #1, 3 batting titles, and 2009 AL MVP.

* Gardy did not make Joe work on his swing.

* He was on a HOF arc up until his concussion.

* His OPS was better prior to the concussion.

* He only had one real year when he was a power hitter.

* Defensive shifts have adversely affected him.

* Joe is 34 years old.

* Joe has taken plenty of criticism for not making adjustments.

* Joe has worked on his swing for many years and changing it would be difficult.

 

Okay. Thanks for quantifying this for me.

I put some time & thought into trying to frame an answer to your question with some context & perspective. Sorry you didn't care for my response.

[DrNeau]

 

Wrong lesson from that post.

He doesn't drive balls into right field because he spent his entire life honing a swing that was not condusive to that type of result. It was good enough for 3 batting titles, an MVP and a hall of fame pace before multiple brain and other body part injuries derailed his career.

Now he is at a time in his career that he can't shift 15-20 years of muscle memory and overcome his physical limitations to make that type of adjustment.

 

Regarding paragraph #1: He does not drive balls to RF because he spent his whole life honing a swing that fully-neglected driving the ball to his pull-side. Agree.

 

Regarding your last sentence: Thanks for clarifying that he has become physically incapable of making an adjustment necessary to drive the ball to all fields. I agree with you. 

[ewen21]

It's funny. I see plenty of articles written here with very detailed breakdowns of mechanics, tendencies and advanced stats.

 

Never on this topic. I think it is a reasonable question about something that is important to this team and player yet you have people who just want to shut down any discussion about Mauer not being able drive a baseball with any consistency. Presenting the hard data would make Joe look bad and that's not really going to go on here.

 

Quite frankly, what he does is abnormal. The shift they have put on him really makes you wonder why he simply won't adapt. It has to be he can't because if he's going to use the opposite field almost exclusively that would be incredibly obtuse. Could he that clueless about what happened? Doesn't he EVER see a mistake? Isn't there a happy zone someplace where he can haul off and turn on the ball? Isn't OK to gear up every so often??

 

I think his bat lag through the zone and his obsession with walks has made him into what he is. I think his approach (more than the concussion) is what explains his terrible drop off. As time went on, Joe doubled down on that approach and the league said...."Thank you for making things easier. Don't go changing"

 

Now he's stuck. He could not change if he tried.

[Craig Arko]

Seems to me Yaztremski, Carew, and Boggs hit oppo quite a lot. They turned out okay.

[Squirrel]

Topic: MECHANICALLY, WHY can Joe Mauer NOT drive the ball to RF.

 

Topic is not:

* Me, personally

* My personal hate for Joe Mauer

* Jealousy of contract

* How good Joe Mauer's OBP is

 

This is ridiculous. He is a 6'5" 230-lb American League first baseman and can hardly ever drive the ball to his pull side. What is up with this? Seriously.

This is a warning to you and everyone on this thread ...

 

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3. I have removed and/or edited almost a page worth of posts because of both 1 and 2, so knock it off.

[USAFChief]

Wrong lesson from that post.

He doesn't drive balls into right field because he spent his entire life honing a swing that was not condusive to that type of result. It was good enough for 3 batting titles, an MVP and a hall of fame pace before multiple brain and other body part injuries derailed his career.

Now he is at a time in his career that he can't shift 15-20 years of muscle memory and overcome his physical limitations to make that type of adjustment.

Plenty of posts over the past couple years berating Dozier, and others, for being too pull happy. Demanding he "go with the pitch."

 

Being too "oppo happy" isn't any better. He hasn't had an .800 OPS for four years now. Teams abandon RF against him.

 

If he's so good, why can't he adjust?