Jason Turbow on Sano

[TheLeviathan]

No retribution was ever needed.  Mistakes don't require old testament retaliation.

[yarnivek1972]

Sure, I get that. But we as Twins fans are more upset about McCann's glove than Haley's pitch. Tiger fans are, unsurprisingly, the opposite. Twins fans say the pitch was an accident and even most Tiger fans agree. Tiger fans say McCann's glove touching was accidental at best although Twins fans are less inclined to believe that. Tigers think some retribution should happen for Haley's pitch, Twin fans disagree. Twin's fans think some retribution should come from McCann's action as well, Tiger fans probably disagree.

Like I said, no problem with what Boyd did. Because he did it the right way. No problem even with Sano missing a game. But McCann should too. His actions were unwarranted. McCann may not have intentionally put his glove in Sano's face, but he definitely intentionally initiated contact. He didn't need to.

[jun]

Next time Sano sees this pitcher, hit a long home run off him to send him a message.

[gunnarthor]

 

No retribution was ever needed.  Mistakes don't require old testament retaliation.

Nor was there any old testament retaliation.  So we're all good.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Nor was there any old testament retaliation.  So we're all good.

 

All of these things are based off of "eye for an eye".  So, yes, that's precisely what it was.

 

We teach children one of the most basic social skills is to accept accidents happen and not retaliate against other people.  Yet baseball players....

[Jham]

I don't have a problem with any of this other than the suspension.  I think pitchers need reminding sometimes that throwing a baseball at 90 mph shouldn't be taken lightly.  IE don't come up and in if you can't control it.  There are more important things in life than owning the inside corner.  If you are going to be cavalier about it, there are consequences.  There are pitchers (people) out there who won't care if they hit guys as long as batters feel off balance.  That's sort of their job, but it's also dangerous if not done correctly.  Throwing at Sano's hip? Well there's not much danger there.  I'd ask him to step in front of a 1 hopper at third to prevent a single.  He can take 1 in the hip to hopefully keep everyone else safer. 

[gunnarthor]

 

All of these things are based off of "eye for an eye".  So, yes, that's precisely what it was.

 

We teach children one of the most basic social skills is to accept accidents happen and not retaliate against other people.  Yet baseball players....

Actually, a lot of boys were told to punch back and not be a ****** but i digress.  

 

But, again, I am always stunned by your naivety on this.  These are athletes playing at the highest level of competition in incredibly stressful circumstances.  Yet you expect them to act like office workers at a HR firm or something.  Hell, you've complained about Bumgarner barking at opposing teams.  Yet you go to your local YMCA and you see grown men pushing and shoving in a simple pick up game of basketball.  I honestly cannot understand what you think a professional athletic environment must be like.  But it's nowhere close to reality.  

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head. I can see why they'd be pissed. And I can also see why they don't want the Twins to do that again.

 

I can also see Sano's side. I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

Intent matters.

Nobody thinks Haley intentionally threw at the guy, retaliation is absurd.

Sano should not accept it.

[Mr. Brooks]

Actually, a lot of boys were told to punch back and not be a ****** but i digress.

 

But, again, I am always stunned by your naivety on this. These are athletes playing at the highest level of competition in incredibly stressful circumstances. Yet you expect them to act like office workers at a HR firm or something. Hell, you've complained about Bumgarner barking at opposing teams. Yet you go to your local YMCA and you see grown men pushing and shoving in a simple pick up game of basketball. I honestly cannot understand what you think a professional athletic environment must be like. But it's nowhere close to reality.

This doesn't happen in other sports though. So apparently world class athletes are capable of controlling their anger.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Actually, a lot of boys were told to punch back and not be a ****** but i digress.  

 

But, again, I am always stunned by your naivety on this.  These are athletes playing at the highest level of competition in incredibly stressful circumstances.  Yet you expect them to act like office workers at a HR firm or something.  Hell, you've complained about Bumgarner barking at opposing teams.  Yet you go to your local YMCA and you see grown men pushing and shoving in a simple pick up game of basketball.  I honestly cannot understand what you think a professional athletic environment must be like.  But it's nowhere close to reality.  

 

I guess I don't see where holding 30 year olds to the higher standard we hold 15 year olds to should be all that difficult.  

 

I mean, if teenagers can handle their stress and act like adults....why can't the adults?

[Jham]

I guess I don't see where holding 30 year olds to the higher standard we hold 15 year olds to should be all that difficult.

 

I mean, if teenagers can handle their stress and act like adults....why can't the adults?

This is a good argument and 1 i raise in nhl circles all the time. Every level accept nhl gets by without enforcers, but somehow they're necessary at the pro level? Perhaps a hit batter above the letters is any autoeject regardless of intent. Like helmet to helmet in football. Then the cavalier attitude toward throwing up and in is thwarted without needing bean balls the other way... nhl fighting is beyond ridic, btw.

[S.]

This article is a joke.

 

"A pitch thrown at a team’s star in response to something one of his teammates did might inspire a conversation with said teammate about knocking it the hell off in the future. Had Sano recognized as much, he’d have saved himself a bunch of trouble."

 

So, I'm to understand that the Tigers intention was to throw behind to Sano in order to "inspire" a conversation between Sano and Haley, in which Sano tells him to learn how to control his pitches better? Maybe next time someone throws behind Sano, he should punch them over the center field fence to inspire them not to be a jackass next time someone on their team gets unintentionally hit by a pitch.

[a-wan]

Maybe a greased-up Sano can just Sumo wrestle Cabrera to end this?

[TheBoofIsLoose]

 

Actually, a lot of boys were told to punch back and not be a ****** but i digress.  

 

But, again, I am always stunned by your naivety on this.  These are athletes playing at the highest level of competition in incredibly stressful circumstances.  Yet you expect them to act like office workers at a HR firm or something.  Hell, you've complained about Bumgarner barking at opposing teams.  Yet you go to your local YMCA and you see grown men pushing and shoving in a simple pick up game of basketball.  I honestly cannot understand what you think a professional athletic environment must be like.  But it's nowhere close to reality.  

 

I don't think aggressive pickup basketball players at a YMCA are comparable to professional athletes. Just like by writing this post I'm not Mark Twain. A 26 year old professional player should have a degree of composure higher than any amateur. 

[Vanimal46]

This is a good argument and 1 i raise in nhl circles all the time. Every level accept nhl gets by without enforcers, but somehow they're necessary at the pro level? Perhaps a hit batter above the letters is any autoeject regardless of intent. Like helmet to helmet in football. Then the cavalier attitude toward throwing up and in is thwarted without needing bean balls the other way... nhl fighting is beyond ridic, btw.

Enforcers in hockey are becoming dinosaurs btw... Sure, there are still players that are physical and can fight if need be. But there are no Derek Boogaards* in the NHL anymore...

 

*Guys who provide no skill whatsoever except the ability to fight on ice.

[Jerr]

 

This article is a joke.

 

"A pitch thrown at a team’s star in response to something one of his teammates did might inspire a conversation with said teammate about knocking it the hell off in the future. Had Sano recognized as much, he’d have saved himself a bunch of trouble."

 

So, I'm to understand that the Tigers intention was to throw behind to Sano in order to "inspire" a conversation between Sano and Haley, in which Sano tells him to learn how to control his pitches better? Maybe next time someone throws behind Sano, he should punch them over the center field fence to inspire them not to be a jackass next time someone on their team gets unintentionally hit by a pitch.

And for me?  Your post ends this discussion. Great post!!!!

[TheLeviathan]

 

Maybe a greased-up Sano can just Sumo wrestle Cabrera to end this?

 

Granted, it's a low bar, but this seems like a far more effective solution.

[Platoon]

I imagine the following will be about as popular as Danny Santana, but I have never had any issue with the unwritten rules. They are what keeps more guys from getting HBP, they keep spikes down during slides, and they keep tags clean, and mouths shut. They also are much more unpopular amongst people who learned the game in the last 15 years it seems. No one knows if Haley hit him by mistake, or on purpose. The situation seems to indicate mistake, but who knows. The discussion should have been between Sano and Haley, especially if Sano felt it was intentional. That's the true purpose of aiming at Miguel's ample butt!

[S.]

 

No one knows if Haley hit him by mistake, or on purpose. 

C'mon now. The guy is a rule 5 pick who's main concern is probably staying on a major league roster as long as possible. Does anyone really think he decided to go headhunting for absolutely no reason at all? 

[Platoon]

C'mon now. The guy is a rule 5 pick who's main concern is probably staying on a major league roster as long as possible. Does anyone really think he decided to go headhunting for absolutely no reason at all?

 

. No one knows if Haley hit him by mistake, or on purpose. I would swear that's what I just said? I will go back and check again. . One could say that headhunting or not, a discussion with Sano might improve Haleys attention to detail.

[TheLeviathan]

I would venture to guess someone would being saying to Haley "Hey....let's not hit other guys in the face, let's get outs" without people having to be thrown at.

 

Call me crazy I guess.  I think that's sort of the object of baseball.

 

 

 

 

[gunnarthor]

 

This doesn't happen in other sports though. So apparently world class athletes are capable of controlling their anger.

It happens in every single sport. Players hit, punch, yap, bark, bite, throw things, swear, threaten etc. This is by no means only a baseball thing.

[gunnarthor]

 

I don't think aggressive pickup basketball players at a YMCA are comparable to professional athletes. Just like by writing this post I'm not Mark Twain. A 26 year old professional player should have a degree of composure higher than any amateur. 

No, the stakes are far less for some idiots in a pick game of basketball. Their competitiveness level is far below professional players.

[Mr. Brooks]

It happens in every single sport. Players hit, punch, yap, bark, bite, throw things, swear, threaten etc. This is by no means only a baseball thing.

Can you give me some examples of instances other sports where it is routine to retaliate physically when an opposing player accidentally commits a foul?

Keywords routine and accidentally.

I don't mean isolated instances or times when the retaliation is for a dirty play.

Is it routine in the NFL to physically retaliate when a player accidentally commits a pass interference or facemask penalty?

In the NBA if a player accidentally fouls you when you are shooting is it routine to retaliate against them or their teammate?

Baseball is the only sport I see where it's routine to plan a retaliation for an accidental foul.

[TheLeviathan]

Not just for accidents. You can be retaliated against for things like stealing a base, bunting against shifts, pumping your fist, and enjoying your success.

 

Let's not limit the range of stupidity baseball engages in,

[DaveW]

The only thing I regret at this stage is that Sano didn't hit the catcher square and knock his freaking ass out.

 

Sano literally did nothing wrong (nor did ANY of the Twins player period)

 

The original HBP was clearly clearly clearly clearly an accident. Any retaliation on the Twins was uncalled for, especially against the best player on the team.

 

Again I wish Sano would have gotten his money's worth and at least knocked a clown out on the tigers.

[USAFChief]

Can you give me some examples of instances other sports where it is routine to retaliate physically when an opposing player accidentally commits a foul?

Keywords routine and accidentally.

I don't mean isolated instances or times when the retaliation is for a dirty play.

Is it routine in the NFL to physically retaliate when a player accidentally commits a pass interference or facemask penalty?

In the NBA if a player accidentally fouls you when you are shooting is it routine to retaliate against them or their teammate?

Baseball is the only sport I see where it's routine to plan a retaliation for an accidental foul.

It's not routine to plan a retaliation for an accidental foul in baseball, either.

 

Honestly, the contrived hand wringing over this is lame.

[jimbo92107]

First, Haley didn't hit JaCoby Jones on purpose. In fact, the pitch may have gotten away from Haley for the very reason he went on the DL - a bicep injury. Try throwing a baseball really hard with an injured bicep. What happens? It's flies out of control. 

 

Second, the unwritten protocols of baseball do not require retaliation by throwing a fastball behind the intended victim. Rather, in this situation a nice, slow curve ball at the butt would have been acceptable. A 60 mph rainbow to the fanny would satisfy the gods of testosterone without seriously endangering Sano's life, or even his left butt cheek. 

 

Two things actually were done wrong in that situation. Molitor should have sent the pitching coach out right after Haley hit Jones. Pitching coach tells Haley to grab his pitching arm, like it's hurt. Pitching coach waves to Molitor, bring in a reliever. Get Haley out of there. 

 

As for Sano's reaction, it was limited to shouting before McCann shoved his catcher's mitt in Sano's face. Ever had a catcher's mitt shoved in your face? I have. It's a punch in the face. Jason Turbow clearly is a homer for Detroit, so he was blind to that action, just as he overreacted to Sano shoving McCann after McCann shoved his glove in Sano's face. The guy that should have got suspended was McCann. 

[killertwinfan]

It's not like this rule is unknown to the players. The Twins had to be expecting a response.  Is it possible that Sano was adding to the unwritten rule that if you throw me, I am going to react! And, if so maybe that's why he got the game suspension.  I don't know.  

 

In terms of altercations, this seemed mostly harmless.  Following the long standing trend, the retaliator got caught.  My take, McCann's move was punkish. He did it on purpose and should also be fined.  Any catcher that intercedes with a batter in that way will receive a similar reaction. I am sure he is chuckling to himself right now.  

[Linus]

As I understand it the unwritten rule is about retaliating if they think someone gets hit on purpose. Haley obviously didn't mean to hit him as nothing in the game happened to prompt it and it was a close game. Guys get hit all the time without retaliation and none was warranted here.