Jason Turbow on Sano

[Mr. Brooks]

It's not routine to plan a retaliation for an accidental foul in baseball, either.

 

Honestly, the contrived hand wringing over this is lame.

Are you saying that Haleys foul (HBP) was not accidental, or that the retaliation wasn't planned?

 

If it wasn't planned, then why are people saying that Sano should have expected it?

[gil4]

 

The only thing I regret at this stage is that Sano didn't hit the catcher square and knock his freaking ass out.

Sano literally did nothing wrong (nor did ANY of the Twins player period)

The original HBP was clearly clearly clearly clearly an accident. Any retaliation on the Twins was uncalled for, especially against the best player on the team.

Again I wish Sano would have gotten his money's worth and at least knocked a clown out on the tigers.

He might have been suspended for 40 games instead of just one.

[USAFChief]

Are you saying that Haleys foul (HBP) was not accidental, or that the retaliation wasn't planned?

If it wasn't planned, then why are people saying that Sano should have expected it?

I'm saying it's not ROUTINE in baseball for accidents to result in retaliation. Players get hit all the time, they trot to first and the game moves on. Players bump the first baseman on the way by, knock over the second baseman on a slide, etc etc etc.

 

Retaliation happens when players perceive things WERENT accidental.

 

One anecdotal instance doesn't negate the other 99.9 percent of play. Incidentally, that's why Sanyo got so ****** off. Boyd WASN'T following the "rules."

[TheLeviathan]

 

Incidentally, that's why Sanyo got so ****** off. Boyd WASN'T following the "rules."

 

And yet, this thread exists because the supposed historian and expert on the "rules" is telling Sano he wasn't being "appropriate enough".

 

You know, part of the reason we write down rules is to eliminate ambiguity.  It helps stem the tide of people putting their own spin on "justice".  This instance is one of many that happen every year in baseball - like a guy being thrown at for stealing a base up 3-1 in the seventh, or bunting against the shift, or pumping his fist too many times on the way around the bases - where it becomes clear the unwritten rules really aren't all that clear at all.  

 

At what point do we accept that there is no rational grounding to having these rules?  That not only is there no proof that they work at what we say they work at, but that we can prove the exact opposite?  That they both lead to nonsense and stupidity themselves and that there are tens of thousands of baseball games played every year that don't adhere to this code and somehow still get completed without an orgy of lawless violence?  Why must we have them if it's so plain we don't?

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm saying it's not ROUTINE in baseball for accidents to result in retaliation. Players get hit all the time, they trot to first and the game moves on. Players bump the first baseman on the way by, knock over the second baseman on a slide, etc etc etc.

 

Retaliation happens when players perceive things WERENT accidental.

 

One anecdotal instance doesn't negate the other 99.9 percent of play. Incidentally, that's why Sanyo got so ****** off. Boyd WASN'T following the "rules."

OK maybe routine is the wrong word. But it happens fairly often. And to a segment it's considered the correct way to police the game.

[Darius]

Stupid take.

 

In the same vein as the retaliatory pitch being a deterrent, why isn't Sano looking to throw down a deterrent for the purposeful retaliation for a mistake?

 

Your rule 5 pick gets hit by another rule 5 pick, and an appropriate retaliation for that is throwing at the opponents franchise cornerstone? Get freaking real. I can see if they Miggy in head. In my mind, that's ground for another retaliation on the Twins part...and an endless cycle begins.

 

I love Sano's reaction. I also thoroughly enjoyed watching the Tigers pitcher and catcher acting tough after someone got in between them and Sano.

[USAFChief]

And yet, this thread exists because the supposed historian and expert on the "rules" is telling Sano he wasn't being "appropriate enough".

 

You know, part of the reason we write down rules is to eliminate ambiguity. It helps stem the tide of people putting their own spin on "justice". This instance is one of many that happen every year in baseball - like a guy being thrown at for stealing a base up 3-1 in the seventh, or bunting against the shift, or pumping his fist too many times on the way around the bases - where it becomes clear the unwritten rules really aren't all that clear at all.

 

At what point do we accept that there is no rational grounding to having these rules? That not only is there no proof that they work at what we say they work at, but that we can prove the exact opposite? That they both lead to nonsense and stupidity themselves and that there are tens of thousands of baseball games played every year that don't adhere to this code and somehow still get completed without an orgy of lawless violence? Why must we have them if it's so plain we don't?

it would be easier to have this conversation without the hyperbole.

 

Can you find me one instance of a player getting thrown at because someone stole a base in a 3-1 game? For bunting against a shift?

 

On the other hand,

Personally, if someone feels the need to premeditatedly show up the other team by excessively pimping a home run, I'm ok with him wearing a fastball later. I like the game better without it, and the threat of it keeps that crap to a minimum.

[Loosey]

So when a team gets hit accidentally they get to purposefully throw at a player from the other team of their choosing.  But When the purposeful pitch is thrown that one is OK, but the accident was not ok.

 

How does that make sense?  

 

The fact Sano got a suspension is ludicrous because he did nothing beside yell at guy for throw a baseball at him on purpose (and shove a man in full protective gear).  But the guy who could have seriously hurt someone on purpose get's a slap on the wrist because for some backwards reason he was in the right?

[laloesch]

 

He might have been suspended for 40 games instead of just one.

 

Maybe 10 but not 40.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Can you find me one instance of a player getting thrown at because someone stole a base in a 3-1 game? For bunting against a shift?

 

You think this is hyperbole?  

 

Bo Porter had his team throw at Jed Lowrie for bunting against the shift in the first inning of a game.

 

And Colby Lewis - doing a double stupid.    Now, I can't verify if Rasmus was thrown at later by Lewis or not, but there it is.

 

So not hyperbole at all.   This nonsense happens all the time, just those of you that get all geared up seeing grown men act like 4 year olds look past how utterly and totally ridiculous it usually is.

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

it would be easier to have this conversation without the hyperbole.

 

Can you find me one instance of a player getting thrown at because someone stole a base in a 3-1 game? For bunting against a shift?

 

On the other hand,

Personally, if someone feels the need to premeditatedly show up the other team by excessively pimping a home run, I'm ok with him wearing a fastball later. I like the game better without it, and the threat of it keeps that crap to a minimum.

And baseball is also the only sport that retaliates against someone celebrating putting points on the scoreboard.

Baseball players are so sensitive it's crazy.

Nobody gets offended in hockey when guys celebrate after a goal.

Nobody gets offended in football when a touchdown is celebrated.

You know what you do if you are offended by the other team celebrating a home run? Don't give up a home run.

That is the attitude in every other sport. Only baseball players have this unhealthy level of thin skin over celebrations. Which, by the way is hypocritical, because the same pitcher throwing at guys for pimping a home run is more than happy to fist pump when they get a key strike out.

[jimmer]

 

And baseball is also the only sport that retaliates against someone celebrating putting points on the scoreboard.
Baseball players are so sensitive it's crazy.
Nobody gets offended in hockey when guys celebrate after a goal.
Nobody gets offended in football when a touchdown is celebrated.
You know what you do if you are offended by the other team celebrating a home run? Don't give up a home run.
That is the attitude in every other sport. Only baseball players have this unhealthy level of thin skin over celebrations. Which, by the way is hypocritical, because the same pitcher throwing at guys for pimping a home run is more than happy to fist pump when they get a key strike out.

All of this

 

AND the ridiculous unwritten rules that offend these sensitive players seem to expand every year, and there's no evidence to suggest that the retaliation for breaking such rules is slowing down people from violating them anyway.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

You think this is hyperbole?  

Which game had the "orgy of lawless violence" again?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Which game had the "orgy of lawless violence" again?

 

That was hyperbole.  And I was using it to poke at the idea that these unwritten rules are the lone decent sheriff, maintaining law and order in a game that would otherwise turn into the Wild West. The people who defend this nonsense often suggest that the unwritten rules are the only thing keeping the game from spiraling out of control.  That it's "better" than the alternative.

 

Yet it's demonstrably, undeniably true that these unwritten rules lead to confusion and altercations.  (whether you like that or not is another thing)

 

So what exactly are they providing?  Why put up with the stupidity?

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I would venture to guess someone would being saying to Haley "Hey....let's not hit other guys in the face, let's get outs" without people having to be thrown at.

 

Call me crazy I guess. I think that's sort of the object of baseball.

no kidding...

 

With the increase in HBP, maybe plunking a batsman should be two bases instead of one. I mean if f the penalty of giving up another base isn't enough to deter this sort of thing, maybe 2 bases or a run would do it.