Yorman Landa Not Tendered a 2017 Contract

[Seth Stohs]

The hard-throwing, 22-year-old becomes a free agent. 

 

He didn't pitch after mid-July due to a shoulder injury. I'm told that he's healthy now but will not pitch winter ball this year.

 

Hopefully he would be willing to come back on a minor league deal but I would think he'll have some options. 

[Han Joelo]

Bummer.  Hope he does what is best for himself, and hopefully that means sticking in the Twins org.

[Doomtints]

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

[KGB]

Why not just try and get him through waiver? Seems to have some potential.

[Homer Hanky]

 

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

I agree that Ryan promotes way to slow... what are some examples of guys who made the jump and were successful? What type of realistic expectations for guys should we have?

[Brandon Warne]

 

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

 

Easy for anyone not in the organization to say. He's had control problems at every rung. He's never walked fewer than 4 batters per 9 in any season. Those guys don't move aggressively. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

That Terry Ryan, always trying to hold prospects back, teach them a lesson, get them off his lawn.

[Vanimal46]

Good luck to him. He was a questionable 40 man add last year. Not surprised that Falvey and Co. cleaned up that questionable call.

[operation mindcrime]

Why not just try and get him through waiver? Seems to have some potential.

Nyet nyet pay that man his money! \m/

[AZTwin]

I get the move but I probably would have tried to hold onto him one more year with the type of heat he has. Still only 22 and would be 23 in AA with that heat and there is reason for hope. I probably would have let go Booshers but that's hard too because he's a lefty and provides major league depth. Hopefully we can bring him back on minor league deal, but either way, it's doubtful it comes back to haunt us

[Seth Stohs]

 

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

 

As Brandon mentioned, control has been an issue. But also, he's fought shoulder problems most every year. The second half of the 2014 season. The first half of the 2015 season. The second half of the 2016 season. He hasn't been moved too slowly because of Ryan.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Why is Danny Santana still on the roster? Especially over a 22 year old with a lottery ticket arm?

[goulik]

Why is Danny Santana still on the roster? Especially over a 22 year old with a lottery ticket arm?

This would be my question. D Santana provides some versatility defensively but we have guys that can fill his roles with more upside. I thought he'd be gone by now.

[goulik]

OK, so looking at the 40 man roster, I see D San and Grossman are the fourth and fifth outfielders followed by Palka and Granite. I see some logic there from a lack of depth perspective but I think I'd run with one of them and Palka as fifth. We sure screwed up our outfield trading Span and Revere and we've yet to fully recover out there. *Heavy sigh*

Hey Revere is a free agent...

[HitInAPinch]

 

Easy for anyone not in the organization to say. He's had control problems at every rung. He's never walked fewer than 4 batters per 9 in any season. Those guys don't move aggressively. 

 

Thanks for that.  I looked at Landa's stats this morning and thought he would have been a keeper.

Apparently missed reading that BB column       and the injury issues.

[ashbury]

Easy for anyone not in the organization to say. He's had control problems at every rung. He's never walked fewer than 4 batters per 9 in any season. Those guys don't move aggressively. 

Can't one just as easily make the opposite argument, that holding him back didn't appreciably help with his control?

 

It's a nice theory, to bring along certain guys a little slower, but maybe it isn't borne out by practice, in terms of players reaching the majors and being productive once there.

[Vanimal46]

Why is Danny Santana still on the roster? Especially over a 22 year old with a lottery ticket arm?

I'm crossing fingers D Santana is on the winter 40 man clean up list.

 

Him or Grossman (maybe both)

O'Rourke or Boshers (maybe both)

Randy Rosario

 

Still plenty of fringe players left to clean up the roster.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

 

I'm crossing fingers D Santana is on the winter 40 man clean up list.

Him or Grossman (maybe both)
O'Rourke or Boshers (maybe both)
Randy Rosario

Still plenty of fringe players left to clean up the roster.

 

I agree. There's still flexibility as the Twins move ahead. But there's no reason to clear the space prematurely.

 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Can't one just as easily make the opposite argument, that holding him back didn't appreciably help with his control?

 

It's a nice theory, to bring along certain guys a little slower, but maybe it isn't borne out by practice, in terms of players reaching the majors and being productive once there.

 

Well I guess? But I can't think of anyone who improved their control by being moved through an organization more quickly.

[Thrylos]

 

Well I guess? But I can't think of anyone who improved their control by being moved through an organization more quickly.

 

Felix Jorge and Fernando Romero

[gunnarthor]

Brad Steil and company have done a fine job promoting prospects as warranted - Berrios did two levels nearly every year and was in the first HS pitcher picked from the 2012 draft to make the majors.   Stewart and Gonsalves were two of the youngest pitchers in AA. 

 

Landa is an undersized RH pitcher with control problems. 

[ashbury]

Well I guess? But I can't think of anyone who improved their control by being moved through an organization more quickly.

I don't have a strong opinion either way - my question was genuine and I'd love to see some kind of careful study.

 

My approach would be to look at highly successful pitchers, since it's by developing those that you really help build your organization (filler is always available cheaply), and see what their BB/9 numbers looked like coming up through the minors.

 

So, as a very quick and dirty cut at the question, I looked at the top 5 AL ERA (with enough innings to qualify): Aaron Sanchez, Verlander, Tanaka, Kluber, and Porcello. Tanaka is a special case with his years in Japan. Verlander never had control problems in his short time coming up, likewise Porcello.

 

That leaves only two to look at (some study!). Sanchez had BB/9 in the 4 to 5 range, not too far off from Landa, and yet the Blue Jays didn't have him repeat levels after he was 18; he had good ERAs and was promoted. Finally, Kluber was a relatively late bloomer, and his BB/9 was measurably better than Landa but not masterful, in the 3 to 4 range. Again, his team(s) didn't leave him languishing.

 

FWIW, both have had much better BB/9 once they reached the majors.

 

Far from a statistically valid study (duh!), and I don't propose to undertake one. But these are two pitchers who helped their teams a lot this year. Moving them up even when their control wasn't yet pinpoint didn't seem to stunt their development.

 

I'm not saying Landa projects to be like them. But if sink-or-swim at each succeeding level works for other organizations, maybe the Twins have been overthinking it. Move them up, and if they flounder (due to control issues, or just getting hit hard) either demote them if you think a second chance is warranted, or else flush them.

 

And now *I* am guilty of overthinking. But you asked.

[Brandon Warne]

Not really comfortable with the comparison, since Landa had to come over and acclimate to the states and was never close to a top-100 prospect like Sanchez was. Just not the same types of players at all.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Felix Jorge and Fernando Romero

 

Jorge is heading into year seven in the organization and has like 75 innings above High-A. 

 

He also was never close to having control problems. His high-water mark was like 3.0 BB/9. 

 

Romero might prove your point that it has happened, but I doubt it's a correlation-causation thing. It would be hard to ever prove that. 

[DocBauer]

To me, and I'm not speaking of Landa directly, I'm not overly concerned with a prospect...with good live stuff mind you...that walks 4-5 per 9. Is a concern? Definitely. But everything in regard to pitching takes time; gaining control of breaking stuff, feel for a change, setting up hitters, etc. Learning better control, walking fewer, repeating motions, etc, is part of the learning process. I don't say to automatically rush someone just because he has a good arm, but I do believe you need to challenge guys sometimes. And at each level, they should learn more as they are exposed to better and better hitters. In fact, they should end up challenging themselves in the process. And in that process, they should not only learn, but they may learn something different about themselves from themselves, as well as their next pitching coach.

[DocBauer]

I know this thread is about Landa, and I don't want to hijack it. But since Dan San and Grossman have been mentioned......

 

Like most all the Twins minor leaguers, I followed Dan San's career with interest. And I admit a bit of a man crush on him after his rookie season. He really didn't play poorly in the field, especially being rushed, and being spooned in to an unfamiliar position. I saw the quick wrists, a good arm, speed, some pop, and all around athleticism and was very intrigued. I felt his BA would certainly come down, but experience and natural progression would see at least some rise in contact and BB ability. I thought he had a chance to develop in to a nice, sometimes dangerous, and exciting, versatile role player. But it just hasn't happened for whatever reason. But it still could. But at this point, he has to be one of the first guys to be taken off the 40 man to make room for a FA signing or traded for player. He COULD still find the right team, maybe bounce around for a year or two, and be what I hoped he'd be for the Twins, but I'd be willing to live with that. However, if he went unclaimed, I'd sign him to a milb contract in a heartbeat.

 

Grossman is a different story. Look, the times I saw him play defense last season wasn't always pretty. I'm sure some of you saw him more than me. I saw him play OK, and I saw a couple really bad plays as well. I'm still not sure how good or bad he is defensively. But I do know this, the guy can be dangerous against LH pitching. He has a potential role on this team as a 5th OF, OCCASSIONAL OF, PH and DH. I'd like to keep him. We complain over and over again the Twins have too many 1B/DH types...TYPES...but we are still unsettled there despite numerous options. We have Mauer...a shell of his former self, but good defensively, solid OB and still around. We have Vargas, who I still argue needs an opportunity, and not just playing a couple times a week or being discarded after a bad week, to see what he can really do. Park is solid defensively, has potential, but also needs to be healthy. Vargas and Park both have options, which is good. But we'really really not sure yet what and who we have in this glut of 1B/DH situation we always talk about. I think Grossman is a decent "option" to have in the mix for now.

[Mr. Brooks]

I know this thread is about Landa, and I don't want to hijack it. But since Dan San and Grossman have been mentioned......

 

Like most all the Twins minor leaguers, I followed Dan San's career with interest. And I admit a bit of a man crush on him after his rookie season. He really didn't play poorly in the field, especially being rushed, and being spooned in to an unfamiliar position. I saw the quick wrists, a good arm, speed, some pop, and all around athleticism and was very intrigued. I felt his BA would certainly come down, but experience and natural progression would see at least some rise in contact and BB ability. I thought he had a chance to develop in to a nice, sometimes dangerous, and exciting, versatile role player. But it just hasn't happened for whatever reason. But it still could. But at this point, he has to be one of the first guys to be taken off the 40 man to make room for a FA signing or traded for player. He COULD still find the right team, maybe bounce around for a year or two, and be what I hoped he'd be for the Twins, but I'd be willing to live with that. However, if he went unclaimed, I'd sign him to a milb contract in a heartbeat.

 

Grossman is a different story. Look, the times I saw him play defense last season wasn't always pretty. I'm sure some of you saw him more than me. I saw him play OK, and I saw a couple really bad plays as well. I'm still not sure how good or bad he is defensively. But I do know this, the guy can be dangerous against LH pitching. He has a potential role on this team as a 5th OF, OCCASSIONAL OF, PH and DH. I'd like to keep him. We complain over and over again the Twins have too many 1B/DH types...TYPES...but we are still unsettled there despite numerous options. We have Mauer...a shell of his former self, but good defensively, solid OB and still around. We have Vargas, who I still argue needs an opportunity, and not just playing a couple times a week or being discarded after a bad week, to see what he can really do. Park is solid defensively, has potential, but also needs to be healthy. Vargas and Park both have options, which is good. But we'really really not sure yet what and who we have in this glut of 1B/DH situation we always talk about. I think Grossman is a decent "option" to have in the mix for now.

 

I'm all for Grossman havinga role, as long as Molitor isn't allowed to use him in the field. Where we diverge is that I don't think Mollie can be trusted not to.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Yet another Twins player who was promoted too slowly during Ryan's second stint.  Three years of rookie ball?  Another two years at A?  Come on.  He didn't have a chance.  He should have been at A+ two years earlier judging by his stat sheet.

 

Rk 2011 & 2012

A 2013

A+ 2014

 

2017 could have been his coming out year instead of his getting sacked year. 

 

Again, this is a stereotype and hardly true.  He started at 17 in the DSL.  At 18, he moved to the GCL.  At 19, the Appy league.  

 

As for results... yeah, not exactly what screams "move him up".  Landa walked 7.3 batters per 9 in DSL in 2011 and got promoted to the GCL where he walked 5.4 batters per 9 and saw a big drop in his K rate. Despite that, he got promoted to Elizabethon. His minor league career walk rate is 5.09.  Compare that with Jim Hoey, who sports a 4.66 BB/9 in the minors.  K rates in that stop weren't bad, but weren't stellar either. ERA was good.

 

Look at the numbers before and see if there was a reason to hold the guy back before making statements like this. 

[Seth Stohs]

Much ado about nothing, I guess... Landa's back...

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Brad Steil and company have done a fine job promoting prospects as warranted - Berrios did two levels nearly every year and was in the first HS pitcher picked from the 2012 draft to make the majors.   Stewart and Gonsalves were two of the youngest pitchers in AA. 

 

Landa is an undersized RH pitcher with control problems. 

 

Based on the massive success the prospects are having in MN the last few years?

 

I'd question EVERY thing this organization does right now, given it's total system failure.