When do you fire a manager?

[Platoon]

I don't see that as the proper evaluation.  Rather, did the horses you got finish as close to first as possible?

Or, did the horse run true and straight, and in the correct direction around the track. And how often did the horses run into each other? The pitchers talents aren't Molitors problem. But his BP usage is, as well as the continuing dumb a^* plays!

[twinsnorth49]

 

Finishing close to first place isn't the goal.

 

 

Finishing close to first isn't the goal. While it's nice to not be in last place it's not what the team should strive for. Our horses aren't even really in the race. In a couple of years maybe they will. As of now they are really young.

Based on the development of said horses this year, can you honestly say Molitor is the guy to get them there? Aren't in the race? Half of them aren't even on the track most of the time.

[Primetime82]

I haven't watched a full game all season and won't contribute nothing to this organization until there all fired! No games, clothes, TV ratings!  Mollie and his staff should be gone the same day the last game ends! And all of upper management should be sent out the same door!

[D. Hocking]

If he is not fired, I wonder if he will choose to resign when the season is over.  He is close to 60, he has a young child, and for years he was reluctant to get fully back in the game because of the schedule, traveling etc.

 

I am guessing part of him would like to stay to prove he can right the ship, but there has to be part of him saying - this is not worth it.

[alarp33]

 

If he is not fired, I wonder if he will choose to resign when the season is over.  He is close to 60, he has a young child, and for years he was reluctant to get fully back in the game because of the schedule, traveling etc.

 

I am guessing part of him would like to stay to prove he can right the ship, but there has to be part of him saying - this is not worth it.

 

I agree.  I firmly believe he should be let go, but I'm wondering if he even wants to return.  

 

The team next year is unlikely to be much better, and the new Pres/ GM have been told they only have to keep Molitor for one year... meaning he's basically a dead man walking next season managing a non playoff team.  

[gheggs42]

Let the staff finish out the year and then clean house. Tank for the #1 overall pick or hope Schwarz falls to #2 next June, if not, take a college arm that can hopefully fast track to the majors

[wsnydes]

 

Obviously one can make a great case for firing Molitor. However in reference to the original post, no decision of this magnitude should be done to send a message to fans. That's meaningless.

Frankly, this is the reason why Molitor is here to begin with in my view.  The fans wanted him, so that's who they got.  That's the reason I've never liked the hire.  I felt that it was playing to the fan base instead of being a sound baseball decision.  I may be completely wrong on that and they did feel that he was the best man for the job, but then I'd question how they got to that point considering he had zero managerial experience.

[wsnydes]

 

IMO, the manager has made a poor team worse, and it doesn't seem to be getting better, nor do I feel Molitor is growing into the job.
 

I can't agree with this more.  On a team that should be trending towards youth, that's a really bad thing.  That's the only reason I can agree with to fire him now though.  Overall, it doesn't really make much sense to fire him at this point.

[DrNeau]

 

"When do you fire a manager?"

 

Prior to falling to 0-9.  

[Loosey]

 

If he is not fired, I wonder if he will choose to resign when the season is over.  He is close to 60, he has a young child, and for years he was reluctant to get fully back in the game because of the schedule, traveling etc.

 

I am guessing part of him would like to stay to prove he can right the ship, but there has to be part of him saying - this is not worth it.

3 weeks ago I think most would say he is probably coming back next year, however after these last 10 games I think its 50/50 on if he just resigns for the reasons you stated.  

 

I never really thought of him as manager type of guy.  It almost seems like he was somehow forced into agreeing to be the manager by someone.  

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I haven't watched a full game all season and won't contribute nothing to this organization until there all fired! No games, clothes, TV ratings!

Please don't completely abandon clothes while the team is bad, though.

[wsnydes]

 

Please don't completely abandon clothes while the team is bad, though.

He may be on to something though.  Which is worse?  Prison or following this team?  

[Ncgo4]

When Ryan was canned, it was stated that they were looking for a new "GM" but that Molly would continue as manager in 2017 as part of the hiring deal for any"new GM. Just have to wonder, if that's finally off the table.

[bird]

I miss Gardy.

[jud6312]

To answer the very first post of this thread, "any time now is fine with me."

 

I wanted Molitor to get the job. Heck, I wanted him to get the job when they handed it to Gardy. I was wrong. Woefully, painfully wrong. There's something not clicking, not reaching these guys and it goes beyond the injuries and the baffling call-ups. 

 

If they stick to the Twins M.O. and hire from within, Mientkiewicz would be my choice. If, however, they go back on the "Molly is our guy next year" mantra and hire someone else from within, I fear it'll be Mauer. They've been grooming him for years. I assume Toby G. won't be far behind to be the hitting coach. 

 

It's starting to feel something like this:
 

[twinsnorth49]

Molitor needs to be releaved of his duties, what else will get through to these guys that there play STINKS.

A 12 game losing streak and a 49-83 record?

 

I don't think these guys need a message sent to them that they suck, it's abundantly clear. They aren't going to fire him with 30 games left in an utterly lost season, hopefully he makes the decision to walk away and allows the team a clean break.

[jimmer]

The problem is, it's not like the talent on this team screams we should be a contender.  No, we shouldn't be THIS bad, and certainly Molitor has done things to contribute, but bad is certainly what this talent level is, and was, going into the season.

[jokin]

 

I miss Gardy.

 

What's to miss? He's still here... collecting a paycheck, plenty of 2016 blame can be directed his way too... as he's providing his very "Special Assistant to the GM" insights on who gets called up to the majors... no doubt based on which prospect is battling his tail off and which one is really gettin' after it...

[twinsnorth49]

The problem is, it's not like the talent on this team screams we should be a contender. No, we shouldn't be THIS bad, and certainly Molitor has done things to contribute, but bad is certainly what this talent level is, and was, going into the season.

Agreed but Mollie has doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on some of the bad on this team. Lineups, bullpen usage and repeated fundamental mistakes are on him imo.

[twinsnorth49]

What's to miss? He's still here... collecting a paycheck, plenty of 2016 blame can be directed his way too... as he's providing his very "Special Assistant to the GM" insights on who gets called up to the majors... no doubt based on which prospect is battling his tail off and which one is really gettin' after it...

Whoa...the Logan Schafer call up suddenly just became crystal clear.

[Mike Sixel]

Well,  you should probably not hire someone to be a manager who has zero experience in the first place......

 

My issues with Molitor are these:

 

1. The fundamentals are brutal. If he and the coaches can't improve that, then why bother having coaches at all?

2. The bullpen usage seems off to me.

3. Sacrifice bunting before inning 8......just plain bad strategy.

4. His love of Danny Santana, who plays more than any other 25th man in the history of the game.

4a. His apparent disdain for other young players in their first taste of the majors.

5. I don't see growth. All of the issues you see that you didn't like last year? They are still there this year.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Mollie seemed a very good roving instructor for this organization. Lots of guys (even guys you have heard of!) praised him for things he helped them with. It would be fantastic if we could maneuver him back into a role like that again. I thought he would be a good manager but it hasn't turned out that way. Gladly his thoughtfulness, intelligence and sense of humor haven't left him yet.

[Doomtints]

 

Well,  you should probably not hire someone to be a manager who has zero experience in the first place......

 

My issues with Molitor are these:

 

1. The fundamentals are brutal. If he and the coaches can't improve that, then why bother having coaches at all?

2. The bullpen usage seems off to me.

3. Sacrifice bunting before inning 8......just plain bad strategy.

4. His love of Danny Santana, who plays more than any other 25th man in the history of the game.

4a. His apparent disdain for other young players in their first taste of the majors.

5. I don't see growth. All of the issues you see that you didn't like last year? They are still there this year.

 

I think when it comes to coaching hitters, he is learning that every hitter can't take the approach he used when he was playing and turn that into success.  I think he is truly surprised by this revelation.  I think this is why we saw the phenomenal strikeout rates at the start of the year.  He seems to have learned this lesson.

 

I think when it comes to game management, he has this bizarre idea that pitchers need to complete innings.  This means he is reluctant to pull a pitcher who is clearly out of gas until after the damage is done.  This is a problem and it does not seem like he has figured it out.  He should probably let a pitching coach make these calls during games because he is managing by something arbitrary (finishing an inning) rather than observing how a pitcher is doing.  

 

The biggest problem is that young guys are coming up lost and overwhelmed.  This is a leadership problem, for sure, and I'm not sure it's one that can be fixed without replacing leadership.  This is one of those things that either you are good at or you're not, you can't train someone to be the type of person who makes other people feel comfortable.  Or can you?

[Mike Sixel]

I think people can improve their leadership....but you don't make someone an SVP before he's even been a mid-level manager.....

[Doomtints]

 

I think people can improve their leadership....but you don't make someone an SVP before he's even been a mid-level manager.....

 

True.  People thrust into a senior role without any management experience tend to take a hardline stance on issues which does not work.  This is how bad ideas become processes and has sunk many an organization, not just in sports.  

[Winston Smith]

I don't understand why you'd bring any of the minor league managers up. The players coming up fail in basic fundamentals daily. That is not the Major league managers job to teach fundamentals those things need to be learned long before a player gets to the majors.

 

Saying that I'm not defending Molitor in any way but thinking Mauer or Mietkiewicz are the answer when they keep sending up unprepared players doesn't make any sense, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't understand why you'd bring any of the minor league managers up. The players coming up fail in basic fundamentals daily. That is not the Major league managers job to teach fundamentals those things need to be learned long before a player gets to the majors.

 

Saying that I'm not defending Molitor in any way but thinking Mauer or Mietkiewicz are the answer when they keep sending up unprepared players doesn't make any sense, imo.

 

It certainly raises some serious questions. 

[ashbury]

A 12 game losing streak and a 49-83 record?

 

I don't think these guys need a message sent to them that they suck, it's abundantly clear.

True, but it's very possible for each player on a 25-man squad to think that he's OK, and that it's the other 24 who collectively need to get their act together.

 

I'm not saying Molitor has fostered this attitude, merely that letting the team's record speak for itself to the players won't accomplish anything much at all.

[twinsnorth49]

 

True, but it's very possible for each player on the 25-man squad to think that he's OK, and that it's the other 24 who collectively need to get their act together.

 

I'm not saying Molitor has fostered this attitude, merely that letting the team's record speak for itself won't accomplish anything much at all.

Possible, not plausible imo. In some respects, firing Mollie at this stage might allow some players the excuse of "see, it was him, not us".

[ashbury]

Possible, not plausible imo. In some respects, firing Mollie at this stage might allow some players the excuse of "see, it was him, not us".

I'm not sure your scenario of Molitor sticking it out another 30 games and then walking away is any different in this regard.

 

/ edit - in any case, firing Molitor at this stage is completely moot. Rob Antony is the acting GM and he would not have his boss's backing to make such a move.