Why Hasn't Stephen Gonsalves Been Called Up?

[hosskartrite]

Seriously, what the hell does Stephen Gonsalves have to do to get a call up. Last three starts, 21 IP, 6 hits, 6 BB, 25 SO, 0 ER. Oh, and btw, the 5 starts before that averaged 6 innings per start with a total of 4 earned runs. Can't wait until they offer Hector Santiago arbitration.

[nytwinsfan]

Ummmm . . .

 

(1) By Gonsalves' own admission, he has lots left to work on, including his control and command.

(2) Even if he had nothing left to work on or prove at AA, it is usually wise to let a prospect go up against the aging sluggers, rehabing major leaguers and AAAA hitters in AAA to get practice against the best non-MLB hitters available nearby.

(3) This season is over in terms of playoffs, so adding Gonsalves now isn't going to get us anything, other than maybe (if he plays really well) a lower draft pick.

(4) Why start his service time clock now? If he is called up now, it means the Twins will likely need to wait until July next year to call him up while preserving the extra year of service time. And next year it might be much more valuable to have him in the majors earlier. Every day he is in the majors next year is certainly more valuable than every day he is in the majors this year.

(5) The Twins can always call him up in September as a reliever, which will allow him to get at least two more starts at AA and limit his innings a little, and get the reward of pitching a few innings of relief under the bright lights. Why not wait till September (assuming you want to call him up as a reward at all - service time weighs against even doing that)?

 

Gonsalves doesn't need to succeed at the Major League level in order to make non-tendering Santiago a good idea. Mejia is closer, and May is another option to join the rotation. If Santiago continues to be terrible, the Twins are in position not to tender him a contract.

[jimmer]

He's not even on the 40 Man roster and this is a lost season.  No need to get his clock rolling by adding him to the 40 man and bringing him up now.

[Mike Sixel]

Uh, what?

 

No way he should be up this year, unless it is after September, and they seriously believe he's a candidate for the rotation to start next year, which probably almost no one does.

[diehardtwinsfan]

He just promoted to AA.  Giving another promotion after 10 starts might be feasible if he was on the 40 man and they desperately needed help at SP, but not here.  He will probably start next season in AAA.

[alarp33]

 

Seriously, what the hell does Stephen Gonsalves have to do to get a call up. 

 

Pitch more than 59 innings above A ball?

[sthpstm]

 

Ummmm . . .

 

(1) By Gonsalves' own admission, he has lots left to work on, including his control and command.

(2) Even if he had nothing left to work on or prove at AA, it is usually wise to let a prospect go up against the aging sluggers, rehabing major leaguers and AAAA hitters in AAA to get practice against the best non-MLB hitters available nearby.

(3) This season is over in terms of playoffs, so adding Gonsalves now isn't going to get us anything, other than maybe (if he plays really well) a lower draft pick.

(4) Why start his service time clock now? If he is called up now, it means the Twins will likely need to wait until July next year to call him up while preserving the extra year of service time. And next year it might be much more valuable to have him in the majors earlier. Every day he is in the majors next year is certainly more valuable than every day he is in the majors this year.

(5) The Twins can always call him up in September as a reliever, which will allow him to get at least two more starts at AA and limit his innings a little, and get the reward of pitching a few innings of relief under the bright lights. Why not wait till September (assuming you want to call him up as a reward at all - service time weighs against even doing that)?

 

Gonsalves doesn't need to succeed at the Major League level in order to make non-tendering Santiago a good idea. Mejia is closer, and May is another option to join the rotation. If Santiago continues to be terrible, the Twins are in position not to tender him a contract.

Agreed, but on point 5, I think the only reason to call him up is because he needs more starts and more innings. Unless Chattanooga makes the playoffs he will have fewer starts and innings than last year. So they won't call him up to use him in the bullpen. Perhaps he's an AFL candidate?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Gonsalves is a promising, though not yet elite, prospect.

 

He has 10 starts in AA. He'll finish the season with 12-13 starts.

 

His career high in IP came last season at 134. He's currently at 125 IP, which means he should close the season a tick over what he pitched last season.

 

If he continues strong in AA, the Twins should consider moving him to Rochester to start the 2017 season but only if they think he's ready to take that last step toward MLB.

 

He's only 21 years old. If he gets the call in June of 2017 (provided everything goes well in the next 10 months), he'll be just 22 years old when he makes his MLB debut.

 

It's a typical promotion schedule for a promising but not elite prospect. The Twins are doing what most other teams would do in this situation (to this point, anyway).

[Rosterman]

He should pitch in Arizona this Fall instead and get an invite to spring training.

[alarp33]

 

Agreed, but on point 5, I think the only reason to call him up is because he needs more starts and more innings. Unless Chattanooga makes the playoffs he will have fewer starts and innings than last year. So they won't call him up to use him in the bullpen. Perhaps he's an AFL candidate?

 

He'll have 3 more starts in AA, if he pitches 7 innings per start, he'll end the season at 146 innings, a 10% increase over last season

[Thrylos]

 

Seriously, what the hell does Stephen Gonsalves have to do to get a call up.

 

The same thing that his teammate Felix Jorge has to do:

 

Wait.

[RedBull34]

I'd argue his last start is indicative of why he shouldn't come up yet.  He went through 6 innings with 0 H's and 2 BB's but still hit 105 pitches?  That's over 5 pitches a batter.  Seems like he has major command issues.  He can keep working on that.

[Han Joelo]

I thought this thread was about astronomy, but someone changed the title.

 

Anyway, What If the Twins were in contention?  Would you be tempted to at least take a peek, if say your fourth and fifth starters really stunk?

 

[alarp33]

 

I thought this thread was about astronomy, but someone changed the title.

 

Anyway, What If the Twins were in contention?  Would you be tempted to at least take a peek, if say your fourth and fifth starters really stunk?

 

The Twins were in playoff contention last year, had poor 4/5 starters, and didn't take a peek at Berrios, who was in AAA.  So I would say there's basically a 0% chance they would.  I wouldn't either for what its worth, but would have with Berrios last year

[jimmer]

 

I'd argue his last start is indicative of why he shouldn't come up yet.  He went through 6 innings with 0 H's and 2 BB's but still hit 105 pitches?  That's over 5 pitches a batter.  Seems like he has major command issues.  He can keep working on that.

9 strike outs probably had a bit to do with it.  I'm not sure if 66 strikes compared to 39 balls is bad.  Maybe it is?  It's like 1.75 balls throw per batter.  Is that bad, especially if he's baiting them to strike out guys. like dropping one off the table to get them to chance isn't about control issues, it's a pitch thrown with purpose.

[RedBull34]

 

9 strike outs probably had a bit to do with it.  I'm not sure if 66 strikes compared to 39 balls is bad.  Maybe it is?  It's like 1.75 balls throw per batter.  Is that bad, especially if he's baiting them to strike out guys. like dropping one off the table to get them to chance isn't about control issues, it's a pitch thrown with purpose.

The 9 K's definitely were a part of it.  I guess it depends somewhat if the balls were thrown as bait or were misses.  But Gibson's start last night was only 115 pitches and had 8 hits, with 6 K's.  I guess it feels like Gonsalves is still a  thrower not a pitcher.

[jimmer]

 

The 9 K's definitely were a part of it.  I guess it depends somewhat if the balls were thrown as bait or were misses.  But Gibson's start last night was only 115 pitches and had 8 hits, with 6 K's.  I guess it feels like Gonsalves is still a  thrower not a pitcher.

Gibson last night: 73 strikes, 42 balls.

 

IF Gonzalez is throwing pitches off the table to try and induce Ks, I'd like that as opposed to trying to throw every pitch in the zone at every count.  Cause usually that results in Gibson's normal results.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I thought this thread was about astronomy, but someone changed the title.

 

Anyway, What If the Twins were in contention?  Would you be tempted to at least take a peek, if say your fourth and fifth starters really stunk?

 

I would, but the Twins didn't call up Rogers or Berrios last year....now, maybe they knew Berrois wasn't ready, but Rogers is showing he could have been, at worst, a LOOGY.

[RedBull34]

 

Gibson last night: 73 strikes, 42 balls.

 

IF Gonzalez is throwing pitches off the table to try and induce Ks, I'd like that as opposed to trying to throw every pitch in the zone at every count.  Cause usually that results in Gibson's normal results.

Yea, I don't know, I'm kinda guessing here based off of Gonsalves own comments, but he could be closer than is my impression.  I'm uncertain, a full scouting report would be needed.

[jimmer]

 

Yea, I don't know, I'm kinda guessing here based off of Gonsalves own comments, but he could be closer than is my impression.  I'm uncertain, a full scouting report would be needed.

I'm not at all suggesting he should be up and I'm sure he needs to work on things.  I'm hoping they aren't trying to make him a throw strikes at all cost type pitchers.  Sometimes throwing a pitch out of the zone is what you should do.

[nicksaviking]

 

The 9 K's definitely were a part of it.  I guess it depends somewhat if the balls were thrown as bait or were misses.  But Gibson's start last night was only 115 pitches and had 8 hits, with 6 K's.  I guess it feels like Gonsalves is still a  thrower not a pitcher.

 

It was also only one start. He only needed 101 pitches to get through 9 innings in the start before.

 

Last game he threw 105 pitches to 21 batters for an average of 5.00 pitches per batter. That's a lot. But his other nine AA starts combined saw him throw 858 pitches to 214 batters for 4.01 pitchers per batter, that's not bad.

[RedBull34]

 

It was also only one start. He only needed 101 pitches to get through 9 innings in the start before.

 

Last game he threw 105 pitches to 21 batters for an average of 5.00 pitches per batter. That's a lot. But his other nine AA starts combined saw him throw 858 pitches to 214 batters for 4.01 pitchers per batter, that's not bad.

All fair enough.  It definitely was just one start.  Hell, IDK, keep him down, bring him up, whatever the Twins think is fair to him.  I'm just not going to be pissed if he doesn't come up right now.

[nicksaviking]

I don't want him up this year. I want the next GM to be making these calls.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Gibson last night: 73 strikes, 42 balls.

 

IF Gonzalez is throwing pitches off the table to try and induce Ks, I'd like that as opposed to trying to throw every pitch in the zone at every count.  Cause usually that results in Gibson's normal results.

 

If undisciplined AA guys are swinging at junk out of the zone that shows up as a strike, not a ball, so it's possible he's closer to 55%-60% of pitches in the zone and is getting bailed out with hacks. The high walk rate suggests that as well, but it looks to be improving. As Berrios is finding out you won't survive trying to get MLB hitters to chase fringy stuff out of the zone, so it's better to work on that now. Thankfully he seems to be improving at a good pace.

 

Edit: I just looked at last night's box score and I see 66 strikes out of 105 pitches, not 73/42. That's definitely on the low side of where you want him to be.

 

2nd Edit: Disregard first edit. Tired eyes, my bad.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Ummmm . . .

 

(1) By Gonsalves' own admission, he has lots left to work on, including his control and command.

(2) Even if he had nothing left to work on or prove at AA, it is usually wise to let a prospect go up against the aging sluggers, rehabing major leaguers and AAAA hitters in AAA to get practice against the best non-MLB hitters available nearby.

(3) This season is over in terms of playoffs, so adding Gonsalves now isn't going to get us anything, other than maybe (if he plays really well) a lower draft pick.

(4) Why start his service time clock now? If he is called up now, it means the Twins will likely need to wait until July next year to call him up while preserving the extra year of service time. And next year it might be much more valuable to have him in the majors earlier. Every day he is in the majors next year is certainly more valuable than every day he is in the majors this year.

(5) The Twins can always call him up in September as a reliever, which will allow him to get at least two more starts at AA and limit his innings a little, and get the reward of pitching a few innings of relief under the bright lights. Why not wait till September (assuming you want to call him up as a reward at all - service time weighs against even doing that)?

 

Gonsalves doesn't need to succeed at the Major League level in order to make non-tendering Santiago a good idea. Mejia is closer, and May is another option to join the rotation. If Santiago continues to be terrible, the Twins are in position not to tender him a contract.

This!! Love the kid, but like you said on his own admission he knows he's got some work to do. If he spends extra time in the minors to work on his mechanics and control he might be a monster when get gets here. I'm just willing to be paitent, I really want to see him succeed.

[jimmer]

 

If undisciplined AA guys are swinging at junk out of the zone that shows up as a strike, not a ball, so it's possible he's closer to 55%-60% of pitches in the zone and is getting bailed out with hacks. The high walk rate suggests that as well, but it looks to be improving. As Berrios is finding out you won't survive trying to get MLB hitters to chase fringy stuff out of the zone, so it's better to work on that now. Thankfully he seems to be improving at a good pace.

 

Edit: I just looked at last night's box score and I see 66 strikes out of 105 pitches, not 73/42. That's definitely on the low side of where you want him to be.

73/42 was Gibson, 66/39 was Gonzalves.  It's what I wrote.  You quoted it where I said Gibson was 73/42 and I had already written 66 to 39 for Gonzalves in an earlier post during the discussion I was having with another poster.

[Taildragger8791]

 

73/42 was Gibson, 66/39 was Gonzalves.  It's what I wrote

 

My bad. Misread your post. Was thrown off because you wrote Gonzalez instead of Gonsalves and got focused on the second part of your post.

 

I don't have a problem with throwing out of the zone, but you have to have the right pitches to do it at a 35%-40% rate. Gibson can't fool hitters into chasing with his pitches so he has to live in the zone or walk guys, which is why he struggles sometimes. Hopefully Gonsalves has better stuff to keep getting swings and misses.

[jimbo92107]

If you're going to promote him, send Gonsalves to AAA Rochester, not Minneapolis. This season is about development, not about winning a few more games at the mlb level. Let him pitch his last few games in AAA, so he can get a taste of more experienced hitters. If he dominates there, then he'll be emotionally ready to take on the last giant leap to the Show. 

 

Meanwhile, I want to see Logan Darnell, Jason Wheeler and maybe Alex Wimmers get a cup of coffee. If they get pounded, so what? We see where they're at, they see what they need to work on. Every now and then a non-prospect turns out to be pretty good at the mlb level. What better season for tryouts than this one? 

 

As for non-pitchers, I'd kind of like to see that catcher batting .300. What's his name... Garver!

[jimbo92107]

I would, but the Twins didn't call up Rogers or Berrios last year....now, maybe they knew Berrois wasn't ready, but Rogers is showing he could have been, at worst, a LOOGY.

I'm keeping my eye on Taylor Rogers. That kid is a lot better than a LOOGY. He might just develop into a very fine major league pitcher. 

[Doomtints]

A similar conversation comes up for Buxton whenever he plays well for a week or so in the minors.

 

I grade the OP a B- for choosing an unexpected player with which to launch the conversation.  But I can't give a higher grade because, well, come on.