Reusse thinks it's all about the money.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The free market for sports in Minnesota will be getting a bit more competitive with a new MLS team in a couple of years.  This will compete more directly with the Twins than any of the other sports teams.  The Twins will have to turn things around to attract fans who will have other options during the summer.

United and the Twins will play in Minnesota on the same day roughly ten times a season. I doubt the Pohlads are too concerned about it.

[Platoon]

This is a message board, not "media". I'm sure the person who started this thread used "all about the money" because the backbone to the article had to do with Target Field financials and how that is leading to the Pohlad's wanting change quicker than when in the Dome

I think your assumption is correct. One could argue the chicken and egg theory, does the money shortfall cause JP to fire Ryan? Or did he fire Ryan because he didn't believe Ryan would get his business back in the black? Bottom line, it's about da money. IF the Twins record was not reflected in the P&L, Terry Ryan would still be the teams GM. I don't doubt that JP would like to be in a WS parade, but that might be the extent of his baseball dream. Having competitive teams, playing solid fundamental ball is likely not part of his business model for this team. I fully realize that wins and losses and revenue go hand in hand. But the losses have been there for most of the last 6 years, the playoff losses have been there for the last 20. It wasn't until the revenue stream got whacked that there was any urgency displayed. Pa and Reusse were right. It's all about da money!

[Don Walcott]

 

United and the Twins will play in Minnesota on the same day roughly ten times a season. I doubt the Pohlads are too concerned about it.

If you have a family, and you go to one game every week or two, you might decide to go to a game that is packed, exciting, and the chosen sport of most kids.

[Vanimal46]

Hell, I'd guess that taking your family to the Minnesota United game is going to be less expensive than taking them to a Twins game.. Personally I don't think the United or the Twins are competing for the same customers.. Maybe that's just me. I'm not going to debate whether or not I want to attend a Twins game or a Minnesota United game. If that's the choice, it's going to be a baseball game 10 times out of 10. Sorry soccer. 

[Platoon]

I am amazed by the Mauer angst. Is he the classic power laden 1B, no? But he has saved quite a few IF from throwing errors, his fielding on GB is solid, and the Twins have far more problems at the plate than Mauer. He lost both his natural position, and at least a couple years to concussions. As for his salary, that was based on the new stadium, promises made to keep players, and a fortitious last year in the dome. It's a sunk cost. He's a local boy, with a good gig, who likely is not going anywhere. I know I wouldn't. And yes, he would have rocked in Boston. One one other topic. I hate soccer, but if I was the Twins I wouldn't overlook its impact. There are zillions of people playing it, and it is a world wide sport. Whether one likes it or not, it ain't going away! Ten years ago, who amongst us would have contemplated 7,000 plus for women's professional basketball in summer?

[Vanimal46]

Yeah maybe soccer's popularity is growing in Minneapolis. Clearly they think they have a market, otherwise they wouldn't have made the jump to MLS and build a fancy new stadium. 

I guess I have too much experience with casual soccer fans who only watch the World Cup and approximately 20 seconds of soccer total in between the World Cup. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah maybe soccer's popularity is growing in Minneapolis. Clearly they think they have a market, otherwise they wouldn't have made the jump to MLS and build a fancy new stadium. 

I guess I have too much experience with casual soccer fans who only watch the World Cup and approximately 20 seconds of soccer total in between the World Cup. 

 

So, like casual Twins' fans, then, except maybe less watch the playoffs and WS.....

[jimmer]

 

Yeah maybe soccer's popularity is growing in Minneapolis. Clearly they think they have a market, otherwise they wouldn't have made the jump to MLS and build a fancy new stadium. 

I guess I have too much experience with casual soccer fans who only watch the World Cup and approximately 20 seconds of soccer total in between the World Cup. 

I watch World Cup, Premiere League Football (soccer) and zero MLS.  And I have an MLS team right down the road.  In fact, as luck (or u-nluck) would have it, we have an NBA and a MLS team.  No NFL, No MLB, No NHL. Ugh.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you have a family, and you go to one game every week or two, you might decide to go to a game that is packed, exciting, and the chosen sport of most kids.

Maybe but the average ticket price of an MLS game is something like $46. The average Twins ticket price is $32.

 

Given the lack of game overlap and the fact they're different sports, I think the effect will be negligible.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Hell, I'd guess that taking your family to the Minnesota United game is going to be less expensive than taking them to a Twins game.

 

The opposite is likely to be true. Baseball is cheap. They play 81 games a season in each ballpark.

[Don Walcott]

 

I watch World Cup, Premiere League Football (soccer) and zero MLS.  And I have an MLS team right down the road.  In fact, as luck (or u-nluck) would have it, we have an NBA and a MLS team.  No NFL, No MLB, No NHL. Ugh.

Sounds like Portland, where the Timbers sell out every game, have thousands of people on the wait list for season tickets, and everywhere you look, people are wearing Timbers scarves, t-shirts, hats and jerseys.  The women's team, the Thorns, average 13,000 per game as well.

 

Not sure which way MN will go with the MLS team.  However, having grown up playing soccer in MN (with Manny Lagos among others) I suspect the team will have a lot of excitement for the first year or two, at a minimum.  If they get supporters clubs going, like in Portland and Seattle, they will continue to do well, and if the team is good, they'll do even better.  I remember going to Kicks games that were sold out in Met Stadium (40,000+) -- and that was well before soccer became such a popular sport in MN.  So I think the chances are pretty good that the team will draw a lot of fans.

 

Obviously, that doesn't mean the Twins can't also do well.  I'm just saying that it will be additional competition.  I truly hope that both franchises are selling out their stadiums in a couple of years.  But as we all know, that means the Twins have to be good.

[Don Walcott]

 

 

Maybe but the average ticket price of an MLS game is something like $46. The average Twins ticket price is $32.

Given the lack of game overlap and the fact they're different sports, I think the effect will be negligible.

That makes sense because there are so many less games in a soccer season.  So if you are choosing which game to attend based on price, the Twins will probably win out.  However, if the Twins are doing poorly and losing a lot, and you take your family out to see them stink it up along with another 10,000 fans, your kids might be happier if you'd just splash the cash to go to a packed soccer stadium where everyone is excited to see the product.  I'm not saying this is a complete overlap, but there is some overlap there.

 

I also think there are season ticket holders who will be more excited to spend their dollars on the MLS than a poor Twins team.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Sounds like Portland, where the Timbers sell out every game, have thousands of people on the wait list for season tickets, and everywhere you look, people are wearing Timbers scarves, t-shirts, hats and jerseys. The women's team, the Thorns, average 13,000 per game as well.

 

Not sure which way MN will go with the MLS team. However, having grown up playing soccer in MN (with Manny Lagos among others) I suspect the team will have a lot of excitement for the first year or two, at a minimum. If they get supporters clubs going, like in Portland and Seattle, they will continue to do well, and if the team is good, they'll do even better. I remember going to Kicks games that were sold out in Met Stadium (40,000+) -- and that was well before soccer became such a popular sport in MN. So I think the chances are pretty good that the team will draw a lot of fans.

 

Obviously, that doesn't mean the Twins can't also do well. I'm just saying that it will be additional competition. I truly hope that both franchises are selling out their stadiums in a couple of years. But as we all know, that means the Twins have to be good.

Minnesota already has a supporters club. They're called the Dark Clouds.

 

I think MLS will do well here but I'm not convinced a team playing a different sport in a different city once a week is going to impact the Twins.

[old nurse]

The Minnesota Kicks were a party, They drew well until they forced people to actually watch the game. Attendance tailed off. I do not recall the Strikers ever drawing that well. It would be fair to say that the novelty factor will work for a year or two. Without a deep playoff team, not so much for the attendance once the novelty wears off.. They draw when they are novel, they draw when they win. Except for the Wild, the crowds dwindle when they lose. soccer will not harm the Twins.

[Don Walcott]

 

The Minnesota Kicks were a party, They drew well until they forced people to actually watch the game. Attendance tailed off. I do not recall the Strikers ever drawing that well. It would be fair to say that the novelty factor will work for a year or two. Without a deep playoff team, not so much for the attendance once the novelty wears off.. They draw when they are novel, they draw when they win. Except for the Wild, the crowds dwindle when they lose. soccer will not harm the Twins.

You are right about the Kicks.  And the Strikers had to play in the Metrodome, so that wasn't particularly fair.  However, that was the first generation of soccer players in Minnesota.  The sport has grown immensely since then.  So i think the conclusions drawn from the Kicks and Strikers might not be applicable to United (I wish they would name them the Kicks and bring back the orange jerseys).

 

And I apologize to everyone for leading this thread off on this tangent.

[TheLeviathan]

Reusse was talking about soccer?

 

In which case, yes, I'd pay money not to watch soccer.

 

That's what this is about right?

[Brock Beauchamp]

You are right about the Kicks. And the Strikers had to play in the Metrodome, so that wasn't particularly fair. However, that was the first generation of soccer players in Minnesota. The sport has grown immensely since then. So i think the conclusions drawn from the Kicks and Strikers might not be applicable to United (I wish they would name them the Kicks and bring back the orange jerseys).

 

And I apologize to everyone for leading this thread off on this tangent.

If the club changes its branding, I'll lose my mind. United has the best branding in Minnesota sports and it's not close. Everything about the look of their branding is design perfection.

[Platoon]

Reusse was talking about soccer?

 

In which case, yes, I'd pay money not to watch soccer.

 

That's what this is about right?

Years ago I heard Reusse explain the interest in soccer for young families. He said it was because when every kid came off the field there parents could commend them on what a good job they did chasing after the ball. There was no pop up to drop, football to fumble, or basket to miss! I have a hard time disputing that theory.

[Monkeypaws]

Let's not forget the Saints. The St, Paul baseball experience is on a par with that of the Twins, if not better in some ways. Their crowds are about 1/3 of what MN United expects, but far more often. I plan to go to once to each park this season, and am likely not alone.

[DocBauer]

I think the colum itself reeks of a deadline with nothing more to say and is rather self serving to get attention. (As well as meet deadline)

 

Look, if you owned the Twins, and they were losing, losing, losing some more...and the fans weren't happy...and ND receipts were down...wouldn't you finally axe the man who helped make all that losing happen?

 

As a business, wins and loses, including perception, all works along with the money factor. Hand in hand. Move along now...nothing more to see here.

[Platoon]

I think the colum itself reeks of a deadline with nothing more to say and is rather self serving to get attention. (As well as meet deadline)

Look, if you owned the Twins, and they were losing, losing, losing some more...and the fans weren't happy...and ND receipts were down...wouldn't you finally axe the man who helped make all that losing happen?

As a business, wins and loses, including perception, all works along with the money factor. Hand in hand. Move along now...nothing more to see here.

The losing was here for years! First in the form of mediocre teams in weak divisions getting their ass handed to them in the playoffs, to the point of embarrassment. And then just plain old full time losing, 4 years of over 90 losses. A faux run for the roses, er 2nd WC in '15, and now this year. And not one thing moved the Pohlads until now. It could be a coincidence, if one believes in coincidences!

[nicksaviking]

Reusse may be right, and with the tight ship the Twins keep we are conditioned to think we'll never hear the whole story.

 

But all reports are that Terry Ryan is amongst the most respected men in baseball. If he got fired to drum up positive PR, or because he wanted to eat some veteran salaries or the remainder of Molitor's contract, other clubs will or perhaps already know. If Ryan is so revered, I would think at some point soon folks from other organizations will anonymously rat out Twins ownership if they did Ryan wrong.

 

And what a spectacle that would be.

 

I suspect Occam's Razor here though, Ryan got canned for bad decisions and poor performances, just as most of us have been complaining about. If we don't hear reports otherwise, I'll be satisfied with that assumption.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Years ago I heard Reusse explain the interest in soccer for young families. He said it was because when every kid came off the field there parents could commend them on what a good job they did chasing after the ball. There was no pop up to drop, football to fumble, or basket to miss! I have a hard time disputing that theory.

 

Such condescending BS, it hurts my eyes to even read this ..... "my time sitting around watching my favorite sport is better than your time".....MLB is not some holy sanctuary, and soccer is not some curse on hard work and humanity.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Reusse was talking about soccer?

 

In which case, yes, I'd pay money not to watch soccer.

 

That's what this is about right?

 

Feel free to send me a check.  Then you don't have to watch soccer.

[jimmer]

Speaking of Minnesota Soccer?  Anyone see what Minnesota United's goalkeeper did?  Funny stuff.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/watch-minnesota-united-goalie-throws-ball-into-his-own-net-in-blooper-of-the-year/

[Everyday Eddy]

 

Such condescending BS, it hurts my eyes to even read this ..... "my time sitting around watching my favorite sport is better than your time".....MLB is not some holy sanctuary, and soccer is not some curse on hard work and humanity.

It's funny how he always acts like every sport but basketball, baseball and football is a waste of time because i bet 95% of the world would rather watch a good soccer game than a good baseball game

[wsnydes]

 

The best way to improve the Twins bottom line is to convince Joe Mauer to waive his no trade clause and somehow end up in Boston or New York.

How is that a better way to improve the bottom line over improving the team?!  Moving Mauer doesn't put more butts in seats or sell more merchandise.  It likely does the exact opposite.  His salary isn't the problem, the product on the field is.  There are much larger problems with the product on the field than Mauer.

[jimmer]

 

How is that a better way to improve the bottom line over improving the team?!  Moving Mauer doesn't put more butts in seats or sell more merchandise.  It likely does the exact opposite.  His salary isn't the problem, the product on the field is.  There are much larger problems with the product on the field than Mauer.

Well, not only that, but the Twins would have to eat a good chunk of money, probably most of it, for a trade to even happen if he did waive the no trade clause.  Wouldn't help the bottom line, our team wouldn't suddenly go grab an ace with any of the saved money.  And, you know, he's not exactly blocking any hot prospects either.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

The best way to improve the Twins bottom line is to convince Joe Mauer to waive his no trade clause and somehow end up in Boston or New York. Every time in history that a or one player makes 33% of the Twins payroll they have been a horrible team on the field. I don't see it happening but the best move the Twins could make is somehow convincing Joe Mauer to waive that no trade clause and hopefully there still is a buyer out there for him. Boston still has somewhat of an opening at first base and there short porch to right would be really good for Joe Mauers swing. It is really the only logical place he could go that would help him, and the Twins. Again doubt it happens but it is a nice pipe dream.

 

I know it is not likely to happen, Mauer has his whole family here and is comfortable and quite frankly the money he is earning now was based on past results of him being an All Star catcher. There is no chance that he is going to be able to return any more value on that contract the next two years. Mauer is a trade asset just doesn't seem very viable in that I don't think his skills would generate much if any trade interest.

correlation does not equal causation

[old nurse]

 

You are right about the Kicks.  And the Strikers had to play in the Metrodome, so that wasn't particularly fair.  However, that was the first generation of soccer players in Minnesota.  The sport has grown immensely since then.  So i think the conclusions drawn from the Kicks and Strikers might not be applicable to United (I wish they would name them the Kicks and bring back the orange jerseys).

 

And I apologize to everyone for leading this thread off on this tangent.

Every sport has a fan base. Then there are the front runner and it is the new thing crowds. I really don't think one sport will cut into the other.