Pohlad-Ryan Disagreement?

[mazeville]

Yesterday, Doogie Wolfson tweeted that "philosophical differences" did not lead to Terry Ryan's firing.

 

But this morning, the StarTribune reported in a single line of its updated story that a disagreement over how to improve the club led to Ryan's dismissal.

 

http://www.startribune.com/terry-ryan-relieved-of-duties-as-twins-gm/387293961/

 

Because we don't know the nature of the disagreement it's difficult to make assumptions or develop an opinion. But it's not surprising. There's no point in firing a GM midseason unless there's some catalyst. And a disagreement with the owner would be that catalyst.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Yesterday, Doogie Wolfson tweeted that "philosophical differences" did not lead to Terry Ryan's firing.

 

But this morning, the StarTribune reported in a single line of its updated story that a disagreement over how to improve the club led to Ryan's dismissal.

 

http://www.startribune.com/terry-ryan-relieved-of-duties-as-twins-gm/387293961/

 

Because we don't know the nature of the disagreement it's difficult to make assumptions or develop an opinion. But it's not surprising. There's no point in firing a GM midseason unless there's some catalyst. And a disagreement with the owner would be that catalyst.

 

The big question now is which side held/holds which view.  Hopefully the Pohlads are of the view that significant changes/trades are needed and Ryan was of the view that only moderate changes/trades were needed.

[Hrbek70]

Well if Doogie said it, we know it isn't true.

[nicksaviking]

Seeing as Pohlad isn't exactly in tune with the baseball side of things, I'm not sure how he had a different idea how to improve the product.

 

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Seeing as Pohlad isn't exactly in tune with the baseball side of things, I'm not sure how he had a different idea how to improve the product.

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

 

Agreed, that was my first thought also.

 

But, as I said in another thread, we have no idea which "side" either Ryan or the owners are on these issues, but I wish I did know.

[wsnydes]

 

Seeing as Pohlad isn't exactly in tune with the baseball side of things, I'm not sure how he had a different idea how to improve the product.

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

That is exactly what I thought and I'm most afraid of.

[beckmt]

My guess is TR wanted to fire Molitor. Monitor is Pohlads guy. TR lost the power struggle

[mazeville]

 

Seeing as Pohlad isn't exactly in tune with the baseball side of things, I'm not sure how he had a different idea how to improve the product.

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

 

I agree.

 

But in the back of my mind, I also hope that Pohlad has been pushing for more aggressive moves and Ryan doesn't want to do that. 

 

The thing is, over the past few years, Ryan has clearly demonstrated an inability to spend on free agents and sign guys to long-term deals. And it seems like the push to spend on pitching has come from above.

 

This team needs to get people excited about going to the games again. So maybe ownership is looking at the declining attendance and lack of season ticket renewals and is pushing the GM to speed things up. 

 

Maybe.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

My guess is TR wanted to fireolitor. Monitor is Pohlads guy. TR lost the power struggle

Too many beers at breakfast, beckmt?

[Mike Sixel]

 

My guess is TR wanted to fireolitor. Monitor is Pohlads guy. TR lost the power struggle

 

that was my second thought.....

[lukeduke1980]

 

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

Yeah Nick but Ryan signed the Santana and Nolasco contracts -- 

 

TR:  'Hi Jim, want to take a 50 million dollar bath?  We could get a couple mid level prospects if you do.  Well, 1 mid-level, one very low level, but mid-very low.  Oh and we should fire Paul because he put Sano back at 3rd and reduced Robbie Grossman's playing time and can't manage a bullpen I didn't improve.'

  

 

 

[gunnarthor]

I've never really bought the Pohlad family's claims that they didn't limit spending.  I also figured that Molitor and Nolasco were Pohlad driven things.

 

This is just a guess on what happened.  Coming into the season, the Twins thought they could at least contend for a WC spot.  Then **** happened.  Jepsen and May were terrible.  Plouffe was injured and uneven.  Dozier was horrible early.  Perkins and Hughes were terrible and then hurt.  Rosario and Buxton struggled and were sent down.  After a hot six weeks Park struggled.  Nolasco still sucked.  When Pohlad was trying to figure out what was going wrong, he probably talked to Molitor who would say the talent level wasn't there or wasn't ready.  This was in contradiction to what his GM suggested so Pohlad fired Ryan.  

[jud6312]

I'm going to trust the source that's not "I would be Doogie."

 

I also believe it was probably a "Molly's gotta go" conversation that prompted it.

 

There's a part of me that wants to believe old Jimmy told Terry to unload the veterans and their salaries for whatever they could get and start getting the kids up to sink or swim. Terry, unwilling to admit when he's been licked by the likes of Nolasco, Hughes, etc., digs in his heels and tells Jimmy that these are his guys and he's going to war with them ... and then he got canned.

 

Then logic kicks in and tells me that Jimbo probably did tell him to move whoever he can, but that he wouldn't kick in anything on salary to facilitate it, Terry balked and they came to the understanding that it's time for the heir apparent to ascend to the throne he's been promised for the last 5 years.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

a disagreement over how to improve the club led to Ryan's dismissal.

TR didn't want to be fired.  He thought the best way to improve the club was to retain him.

 

Pohlad apparently thought the best way to improve the club was to bring in someone new.

 

TR disagreed, and was dismissed before that process began, as per his request.

 

I suspect Doogie was correct, I doubt it had anything to do with anything as specific as deadline trades.

[mazeville]

 

TR didn't want to be fired.  He thought the best way to improve the club was to retain him.

 

Pohlad apparently thought the best way to improve the club was to bring in someone new.

 

TR disagreed, and was dismissed before that process began, as per his request.

 

I suspect Doogie was correct, I doubt it had anything to do with anything as specific as deadline trades.

 

Have you seen any of this reported or is this just your speculation? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Have you seen any of this reported or is this just your speculation?

 

I will take it one further, and speculate that Pohlad is just tired of losing, is still a bit embarrassed about the interview he gave Scoggins (total system failure), and just decided that it was time to do something but the only thing to really do was fire Ryan. I bet he now wishes he could undo it.

[clutterheart]

Too many conspiracy theories here.

 

wins stunk this year.  Twins had to fire someone.  The owner likes Moliter and doesn't want a coaching carousel, so Ryan is gone while Moliter stays.

 

Pretty simple.  

 

[Major League Ready]

 

Seeing as Pohlad isn't exactly in tune with the baseball side of things, I'm not sure how he had a different idea how to improve the product.

I hope it's not about money, the first thing that came to my mind was Ryan wanted eat money to move vets and Pohlad doesn't want to.

I was thinking the same thing.  We are also just guessing which is a bit ironic given the origin of this conversation is managerial competency.  As fans, we constantly speculate and draw conclusions without adequate information.  We make wild generalities like all of the people Ryan hired should be fired, etc.  We come to conclusions we support rigorously with information that is so inadequate that anyone drawing conclusions this way in the real world would get to print a lot of resumes.

 

My own theories on the reasons for Ryan’s dismissal would start with that they did not adapt to new trends.  They also did not go outside to add talent.  Of course, the two are related.  They also got virtually nothing out of the free agent dollars they spent.  To add insult to injury, the extended Hughes and Perkins when there was absolutely no need to do at the time those transactions took place.  Jim Pohlad did not need to be a “baseball guy” to recognize these things.

[Danchat]

 

Too many conspiracy theories here.

 

wins stunk this year.  Twins had to fire someone.  The owner likes Moliter and doesn't want a coaching carousel, so Ryan is gone while Moliter stays.

 

Pretty simple.  

Yep, I think this is exactly it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Have you seen any of this reported or is this just your speculation?

Speculation, but pretty much based on the reporting. The decision was made a while ago, and it has been more or less said that TR didn't want to be a lame duck.

 

I really doubt that Pohlad and DSP have any idea about what they would do differently than TR, they just finally admitted they have to go that direction.

[bird]

So, one of the minions at the Pohlad Companies caught the ear of Bobby and told him about Twins Daily. Bobby read a few threads, and took it to Jimmy. "Look, these guys at least like and know  baseball, so maybe we should listen to them and get rid of Ryan", said Bobby, rather forcedly.

 

"Listen, Bobby, I don't barge into YOUR office and tell you how to run the airplane company", responded Jimmy, rather perturbedly. "We own an airplane company?", asked Bobby, rather inquizzedly.

 

Well, they eventually called Billy, who sided with Bobby, and that was that.

[mazeville]

 

Speculation, but pretty much based on the reporting. The decision was made a while ago, and it has been more or less said that TR didn't want to be a lame duck.

I really doubt that Pohlad and DSP have any idea about what they would do differently than TR, they just finally admitted they have to go that direction.

 

To be honest, I would be heartened if the disagreement is that Jim Pohlad thought the team should bring in someone new, and that TR disagreed, and that Pohlad booted him as a result.

 

That said, I don't see how you keep TR after this season regardless, and failing to make a change at the top is really shortsighted. TR has made way too many bad decisions to be allowed to stick around. I know he's well loved and well respected and I really don't like seeing people get fired, but it's hard to imagine that reality not hitting Pohlad in the face. 

[twinsfanstreif]

The disagreement was likely over the Pohlad's wanted to actually field a good team, TR disagreed

[Riverbrian]

When the wheels come off... Those in position of responsibility are forced to look at it.

 

You'd be amazed how quickly the normally opinionless suddenly have opinions when they look at the wheels off.

 

Quite normal for disagreements to arise in this scenario.

[Blackjack]

 

 

 

That said, I don't see how you keep TR after this season regardless, and failing to make a change at the top is really shortsighted.

 

 

I just think it was a classless move by Jim Pohlad to do it right now, in the middle of the season. Wait until after the WS, give TR notice, let him resign, and move on. He was here for 16 years, whats another 3 months??!!

[Riverbrian]

I just think it was a classless move by Jim Pohlad to do it right now, in the middle of the season. Wait until after the WS, give TR notice, let him resign, and move on. He was here for 16 years, whats another 3 months??!!

Rob Antony said that Terry Ryan was told that he would be replaced at seasons end and Terry gave it some thought and said "let's just do it now".

 

All indications are that Terry requested the firing if it was gonna happen anyway.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Too many conspiracy theories here.

 

wins stunk this year.  Twins had to fire someone.  The owner likes Moliter and doesn't want a coaching carousel, so Ryan is gone while Moliter stays.

 

Pretty simple.  

However, your view is just another conspiracy theory.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Rob Antony said that Terry Ryan was told that he would be replaced at seasons end and Terry gave it some thought and said "let's just do it now".

All indications are that Terry requested the firing if it was gonna happen anyway.

You can't fire me! I'm fired!

[Kwak]

Besides the losing and the unmet expectations (promises?), the contract decisions by Ryan (and maybe there were more!) was reason enough to fire Ryan. The extension for Hughes will hamstring the Twins for three years. Extending Pelfrey--egads.  Plouffe? and now Park--constipating the Twins given the Mauer contract and the hopes for Sano. Despite all of the misfortunes this season Ryan is quoted (in an interview) "...figure [this]...out".  Yikes!

 

I can see several more seasons of 90+ losses while young guys are tested at the MLB level to try and see who actually "is the solution".

[mazeville]

 

I just think it was a classless move by Jim Pohlad to do it right now, in the middle of the season. Wait until after the WS, give TR notice, let him resign, and move on. He was here for 16 years, whats another 3 months??!!

 

Per reports, he was planning to do this after the season and TR is the one who wanted it done now. Regardless, if you're going to make the move, make the move. Don't know that you do TR or the team or the fans any favors by piddling around and waiting until the year is done. He'll be fine.