Pohlad-Ryan Disagreement?

[prouster]

 

Yes. While with the Twins he had an OPS+ of 58 and an OPS of .528 against power pitchers. Park was signed nearing the age of 30 to a team chock full of lower-to-mid 20s DH/1B types who will play for the minimum for years to come. If Ryan wanted to make a splash in the offseason, why didn't he fill the actual need at SS and sign Desmond? If he wanted to go international, why didn't he sign Abreu when the Twins needed a DH/1B, or Aldemys Diaz, much younger guys with talent from a league that translates well to MLB level of play. Let's face facts, Ryan screwed the pooch on this one.

 

This really seems like cherry picking. Where are you getting these numbers? What is a "power pitcher" according to your source? Is it someone with an average fastball velo greater than, say, 95 mph? Someone with a wipeout slider? Someone who averages a K or more per nine? Someone who meets some vague criteria only your source's author knows about?

 

If you're going to criticize Terry Ryan for failing to sign Desmond to play shortstop, then you need to criticize 29 other GMs for the exact same thing. He's an aging slugger who was in the midst of an extended drop in offensive output. There is a reason Texas signed him for 1/8m--no one thought he'd be as good as he has been.

 

The only way to have a useful discussion about this stuff is to be intellectually honest, which means hindsight doesn't count as evidence.

[Dr. Evil]

Who cares if the Gm and owner had a disagreement. Ryan had Krap results. He is and should be gone. Nitpicking about how and why does not interest me(but that's just me, no disrespect). This team sucks. That's on Ryan's watch.

[Kwak]

I find it curious that there is so much defense of Ryan (and by implication) the rest of the front office but if this was: The Vikings, T-Wolves, Wild, or any sport at the University--there would have been "Ho-hum, this happens when you stink for 5 years."

[jokin]

 

This really seems like cherry picking. Where are you getting these numbers? What is a "power pitcher" according to your source? Is it someone with an average fastball velo greater than, say, 95 mph? Someone with a wipeout slider? Someone who averages a K or more per nine? Someone who meets some vague criteria only your source's author knows about?

 

If you're going to criticize Terry Ryan for failing to sign Desmond to play shortstop, then you need to criticize 29 other GMs for the exact same thing. He's an aging slugger who was in the midst of an extended drop in offensive output. There is a reason Texas signed him for 1/8m--no one thought he'd be as good as he has been.

 

The only way to have a useful discussion about this stuff is to be intellectually honest, which means hindsight doesn't count as evidence.

 

No cherry picking on Park- the numbers are easily discernible with a quick check of Baseball Reference- which is pretty established as an objective source of data. (And if you watched the Twins on a daily basis, it was apparent where Park's deficiencies lie relative to pitching style.)

 

On the matter of Desmond- there obviously was at least one good scout watching him play in the 2nd half of 2015- a Texas Ranger scout. They obviously thought they were getting a bargain and taking very low risk on a buy low, one-year deal.

 

Again, this was not hindsight- and I have been entirely "intellectually honest" on the matter, posting in this space since November. Please find my article on just this subject matter- and all of the "evidence" that I presented in full. And note that back during the Free Agency period, myself and others were pounding the table here on TD for Desmond on the cheap, low-risk, one-year deal, as an obvious choice to upgrade a key position on the field where the Twins could really use an upgrade, plus the veteran leadership to help fill the void left by Hunter's retirement.

 

If you're going to commit to improving the team through Free Agency, always go for proven talent, higher upside and an athlete's own incentivizations.

 

 

 

[old nurse]

 

No cherry picking on Park- the numbers are easily discernible with a quick check of Baseball Reference- which is pretty established as an objective source of data. (And if you watched the Twins on a daily basis, it was apparent where Park's deficiencies lie relative to pitching style.)

 

On the matter of Desmond- there obviously was at least one good scout watching him play in the 2nd half of 2015- a Texas Ranger scout. They obviously thought they were getting a bargain and taking very low risk on a buy low, one-year deal.

 

Again, this was not hindsight- and I have been entirely "intellectually honest" on the matter since November. Please find my article on just this subject matter- and all of the "evidence" that I presented in full. And note that back during the Free Agency period, myself and others were pounding the table here on TD for Desmond on the cheap, low-risk, one-year deal, as an obvious choice to upgrade a key position on the field where the Twins could really use an upgrade, plus the veteran leadership to help fill the void left by Hunter's retirement.

You are totally ignoring that it is not a low cost signing when you give up a high draft pick to get the  player for a one year flier.   Ian Desmond is having a career year with a BABIB 70 points higher than his career norm.  Great for this year, not so great for the future. 

 

Funny the boards are silent from those that thought Bourjos, Bonafacio, and any number of budget free agent pitchers like Marcum or Sanchez. Cherry pick what you are right about, ignore when you are wrong.

[prouster]

 

No cherry picking on Park- the numbers are easily discernible with a quick check of Baseball Reference- which is pretty established as an objective source of data. (And if you watched the Twins on a daily basis, it was apparent where Park's deficiencies lie relative to pitching style.)

 

On the matter of Desmond- there obviously was at least one good scout watching him play in the 2nd half of 2015- a Texas Ranger scout. They obviously thought they were getting a bargain and taking very low risk on a buy low, one-year deal.

 

Again, this was not hindsight- and I have been entirely "intellectually honest" on the matter, posting in this space since November. Please find my article on just this subject matter- and all of the "evidence" that I presented in full. And note that back during the Free Agency period, myself and others were pounding the table here on TD for Desmond on the cheap, low-risk, one-year deal, as an obvious choice to upgrade a key position on the field where the Twins could really use an upgrade, plus the veteran leadership to help fill the void left by Hunter's retirement.

 

If you're going to commit to improving the team through Free Agency, always go for proven talent, higher upside and an athlete's own incentivizations.

 

What is a "power pitcher," anyway? It really seems like some arbitrary standard you yourself have invented in order to make your point. Besides, these "power pitchers" are presumably quite talented--is Park the only one who struggles against them? Define your terms, otherwise you make yourself susceptible to claims of cherry picking your data, which you have clearly done.

 

If you recall, Desmond signed very late in the process. No one was eager to have him. No one signed him to play short stop. What he's doing is incredibly surprising and, as others have pointed out, likely unsustainable. The fact that he's having a career year at a position he has never really played before (something quite a few people rightfully complained about on this very message board regarding Sano), then I suspect your attitude toward him as a player would be quite different. The fact of the matter is he profiled as an aging ex-star deep in the decline phase of his career. There's no logical reason to blast Terry Ryan for failing to see into the future, especially when the Twins would have needed to forfeit a high draft pick.

 

In any case, there isn't really a way to construe the Park signing as a hindrance. The mistake wasn't signing him, because it's never, ever a problem to have a surplus of power bats, especially when they hardly cost anything, posting fee included. The issue is that they failed to parlay that surplus into addressing other needs and diversifying the roster.

[howeda7]

I doubt it was money. The only 'eat $' discussion is Nolasco. They were never going to eat $25 million to trade Mauer and TR wouldn't have asked.

 

It's possible it was about Molitor as Pohlad likes him, but I seriously doubt TR wanted him fired mid-season. 

 

But most likely, Pohlad asked TR what his off-season plan was, and was told they're 'so close' and only need a tweak here or there and decided to pull the trigger.

[KirbyDome89]

I agree that roster construction has been an issue. I also agree with the sentiment that it's a collection of moves and not one individual decision; this seems to be the board consensus. If it's unfair to view the Park contract in isolation because of the moves leading up to it and following it,  why is it suddenly fair to criticize it in isolation? He's signed for 4 years at 3 million per year, that isn't exactly big money. The Twins have cut bait with much more money than that already this season. I believe those cuts were listed earlier in the thread as well. Nicksiviking killed it when talking about the posting fee so I won't repeat what he said (pg. 4?) It's disappointing that Park is in AAA right now, but his contract isn't hampering this club at all. If he can't hack it in MLB he can spend his 4 years in MiLB and at 3 million a year nobody should be up in arms. Sano may eventually be just a DH but the Twins aren't ready to relegate a 23 to that position this early and I can't say I disagree with that line of thinking. Vargas wasn't anything to write home about last season and ABW is striking out in almost 50% of his PAs at AAA so I can't blame the team for taking a chance on a guy with Park's potential. The jury is still very much out on Park's future. TR  made some very questionable decisions, I just don't think this was one of them. 

[Major League Ready]

 

Probably. But that's the risk with ANY signing. And as I said, a lot of people thought that Park's power would translate to the majors. 

He has been on a nice roll at AAA of late.  Let's hope this can transition to the ML level.

[Boom Boom]

I'm pretty sure the timing TR chose for his dismissal was to give his crony Rob Antony an audition, both for Twins GM and any other org. that will be shopping for one.