Trevor May...what would you do?

tobi0040 · June 30, 2016

Ahh the conundrum. We have 25 wins and yet are so stacked in the rotation, pen, and lineup we have no room to break in guys like Berrios, Chargois, move May to the pen, Polanco, etc. Yet at the same time, none of our vets are worth a lick on the trade market for some reason.

Of course May should be moved to the rotation. He may fail, but so what? It may work out, it may not, but he can be moved back to the pen one final time if it does not. What I don't have patience for is not trying to maximize assets.

And those quoting May's record as a starter. It was his first taste. Look at Gibson's first 20-25 starts. And it has been beat to death, May's FIP and WAR was actually #1 or #2 if memory serves over that period and is likely favorable to the jokers we have in the rotation right now.

Are we really going to move assets to the closer role on a 50 win team? I guess we held onto Perins instead of trading him as he put up all star numbers on a 60 win team. So nothing is outside the realm of possibilities with this regime.

jimmer · June 30, 2016

I just wonder HOW MUCH LONGER we have to continue watching Ricky Nolasco lose start after start.

Yesterday I was having a discussion about the Rays rotation and someone decided to mention Nolasco for reasons passing understanding. For a moment, I thought maybe Nolasco had been traded to the Rays and that's why he was mentioned. I was pumped up! Alas, I tune in to last night's game and there he is, throwing BP to the White Sox. :-(

tobi0040 · June 30, 2016

.

I just wonder HOW MUCH LONGER we have to continue watching Ricky Nolasco lose start after start. I mean it's like torture. If the front office REALLY cares about winning they'd replace him with May (preferably) who has major league starting experience or bite the bullet embrace the loses and get Berrios badly needed major league experience.

I get that Ricky is still owed a lot of money, but at what point do you just bench him and say that's it your done.

Just maddening to watch.

Terry's old get your money's worth approach. You pay for a buffett and find out the food is terrible. Still have to eat a lot because you already paid.

Kevin C. had 54 starts after getting some money. Big Pelf had 65 here. Ricky has only had 52 so far.

287 IP at a 5.49 ERA clip. Terry is just getting his fill.

TheLeviathan · June 30, 2016

I'm still really curious who this "bunch" of guys we'd be missing out on in favor of May.

Mike Sixel · June 30, 2016

I hope it's clear that I like May as a starter, and my endorsement of him as such is a positive message. I am not at all discussing what the FO would or would not do......we have plenty of those threads out here.

wsnydes · June 30, 2016

I'm still really curious who this "bunch" of guys we'd be missing out on in favor of May.

If you can't figure it out on your own, we're not going to tell you.

/s

Dr. Evil · June 30, 2016

It's one thing to sign a free agent and have him not work out(Nolasco). It's quite another thing when you just keep throwing him out there. It's like punching yourself in the face every 5 days and adding insult to injury. It makes absolutely no sense. Every time the guy takes the mound I cringe and try to figure out why!!! From a team building perspective, does TR think that keeping so called "assets" around is good for the overall team attitude? The guy has no clue.

laloesch · June 30, 2016

. Terry's old get your money's worth approach. You pay for a buffett and find out the food is terrible. Still have to eat a lot because you already paid.

Kevin C. had 54 starts after getting some money. Big Pelf had 65 here. Ricky has only had 52 so far.

287 IP at a 5.49 ERA clip. Terry is just getting his fill.

Oh I get the type. I know folks like this. You got to a cheap buffet pay, but realize the food is horrible. Instead of demanding a refund and or walking out you eat like a pig and stuff your self until your gut is ready to burst and you have to go home and lie down because you feel so bloated and sick.

Terry runs the Twins with this mentality. Instead of walking away he keep running losers out, start after start, because he's paid in full and you have to get your money's worth. Just doesn't work if you want a winning franchise.

FargoFanMan · June 30, 2016

At this point you have got to stretch him out and start him. No excuses. When you are in a so called playoff race and your starters are doing descent and you need an extra kick. I totally understand. When you are last in the league in everything and you got a guy who has 3 quality pitches you start him. Anything different and you'll see the fire TR threads blow up again. I will also happen to side with the last statement If he's in the bullpen. Let's see this kid pitch!!!

dxpavelka · June 30, 2016

I'd get him into the rotation as quickly as possible. He might struggle a bit but the only way to salvage anything from this season is to use the last 3 months to see if certain guys can do certain things. May as a starter is one of those guys and one of those things. Get him in there and ride out any potential struggles. If, after half a season in the rotation, they are still set on him in the pen, at least they gave him a shot. 13.5 k/9-in a season in which he's struggled. Not many of those type of arms out there. But the main point that needs to be made is that he's not the only guy who fits into the "see if certain guys can do certain things" category. Can Sano play 3B at a level adequately enough above what he did in RF so we can be assured his only path to stardom is not as a DH for the next 5-10 years and we can then move Plouffe. Can Polanco be the big league SS, at least until Nick Gordon is ready for a shot? Yeah, I know "but Nunez has been our best hitter." Let's be honest. What Nunez has done is what, at the start of the season, we wanted to believe Escobar would do. Escobar's just proof that Nunez' star can fall just as quickly as it rose. And even if he continues to hit he'll never an everyday plus defensive player on a contending team. Can Rosario rebound and hit major league pitching well enough to ensure we have corner outfielders when Grossman's glass slipper shatters. Average is down to .268 so the slipper may already have some cracks in it. What can Berrios do? Lots of questions. The answers might even be there. But ya gotta try something.

howieramone2 · June 30, 2016

I really don't care one way or the other, because I believe he can be successful in either role, but feel they will have him close for the rest of the season. TR is looking to contend in 2017, and if May can fill the role of closer, one of the big question marks can be answered prior to the off season. If he's not lights out, I can see him being one of the inning eaters we need in 2017.

His versatility makes him valuable, not unlike Kepler, and I would consider both close to untouchable.

tobi0040 · June 30, 2016

I really don't care one way or the other, because I believe he can be successful in either role, but feel they will have him close for the rest of the season. TR is looking to contend in 2017, and if May can fill the role of closer, one of the big question marks can be answered prior to the off season. If he's not lights out, I can see him being one of the inning eaters we need in 2017.

His versatility makes him valuable, not unlike Kepler, and I would consider both close to untouchable.

To me it is 200 IP vs. 60. And his upside is top 2-3 on this team in terms of arms. So I think you first figure out how good of a starer he is, then make a decision. We haven't figured that part out yet.

Loosey · June 30, 2016

If only this would force TR to resign...

#TRexit?

wsnydes · June 30, 2016

#TRexit?

#TRexit.

ALessKosherScott · June 30, 2016

The time is only three months in a lost season. I don't see the risk, especially in a lost season.

I agree he can be a lights out closer. I think he could be solid #3 starter with upside, which would make him one of the 2 or 3 best starters on the team. #3 starter > elite closer

Give him a solid shot at starting before converting him.

I think it's more comparable to a right handed rotation version Perkins or Guardado to the potential of a right hand Perkins or Guardado in the pen. May's stuff and command are a little suspect as a starter. But the velocity bump makes him potentially lights out in pen.

alarp33 · June 30, 2016

I think it's more comparable to a right handed rotation version Perkins or Guardado to the potential of a right hand Perkins or Guardado in the pen. May's stuff and command are a little suspect as a starter. But the velocity bump makes him potentially lights out in pen.

May had a 2.02 BB/9 rate as a starter last year.

Compared to the 2016 staff, that is lower than; Santana, Berrios, Dean, Gibson, Milone, Hughes. It is very slightly higher than Nolasco and Duffey

As for "stuff". He had a 7.95 K/9 rate. That is higher than any of those Twins starters but Berrios, who is in AAA.

It was 2nd on the team behind Duffey last year

tobi0040 · June 30, 2016

May had a 2.02 BB/9 rate as a starter last year.

Compared to the 2016 staff, that is lower than; Santana, Berrios, Dean, Gibson, Milone, Hughes. It is very slightly higher than Nolasco and Duffey

As for "stuff". He had a 7.95 K/9 rate. That is higher than any of those Twins starters but Berrios, who is in AAA.

It was 2nd on the team behind Duffey last year

Get out of here with your stats.

We already know he is only capable as a reliever.

We also know that Chargois needs more time in AAA after an appearance.

And Meyer should have been pulled from his first MLB start after giving up two runs in an inning.

After four starts, Berrios needed more time.

Trust Terry. His judgement has been spot on.

scottz · June 30, 2016

The longer this thread goes on, my thoughts have changed slightly. I don't think, as I did when I first posted, that May should be stretched out for 4-5 starts/3 weeks in Rochester. I think he should slot into the rotation with the Twins right now, knowing that for the next 4-5 starts, that's a bullpen game. I mean, they have 13 pitchers, right? They should be able to absorb that.

1st start - 40-45 pitches

2nd start - 50-55 pitches

3rd start - 60-65 pitches

4th start - 70-80 pitches

5th start - 85-100 pitches

After that? Go, Trevor May. Go.

tobi0040 · June 30, 2016

The longer this thread goes on, my thoughts have changed slightly. I don't think, as I did when I first posted, that May should be stretched out for 4-5 starts/3 weeks in Rochester. I think he should slot into the rotation with the Twins right now, knowing that for the next 4-5 starts, that's a bullpen game. I mean, they have 13 pitchers, right? They should be able to absorb that.

1st start - 40-45 pitches
2nd start - 50-55 pitches
3rd start - 60-65 pitches
4th start - 70-80 pitches
5th start - 85-100 pitches

After that? Go, Trevor May. Go.

You could back him up with a long reliever in the first few starts. Or simply transition May to the rotation via a few turns in the long role. God knows we will have ample long relief opportunities.

Jham · June 30, 2016

May had a 2.02 BB/9 rate as a starter last year.

Compared to the 2016 staff, that is lower than; Santana, Berrios, Dean, Gibson, Milone, Hughes. It is very slightly higher than Nolasco and Duffey

As for "stuff". He had a 7.95 K/9 rate. That is higher than any of those Twins starters but Berrios, who is in AAA.

It was 2nd on the team behind Duffey last year

Put May in the rotation and we can put a $1000 wager on whether his BB/9ip will be O/U 2.02 the rest of the season or 2017 too. You have to cover the over bets. His walks were way down at the beginning of last year. He either found control or he had a spectacular run of feel and rhythm that wasn't likely to last (and didn't). Aside from a ridiculous year in avoiding walks, his production as a starter was only so so. He improved greatly out of the pen. What would his production as a starter have looked like when his walks went up to the 3.38 it's at this year? Probably a lot like his production this year. Pretty poor.

alarp33 · June 30, 2016

Put May in the rotation and we can put a $1000 wager on whether his BB/9ip will be O/U 2.02 the rest of the season or 2017 too. You have to cover the over bets. His walks were way down at the beginning of last year. He either found control or he had a spectacular run of feel and rhythm that wasn't likely to last (and didn't). Aside from a ridiculous year in avoiding walks, his production as a starter was only so so. He improved greatly out of the pen. What would his production as a starter have looked like when his walks went up to the 3.38 it's at this year? Probably a lot like his production this year. Pretty poor.

I know this is an anonymous message board, but I am NOT Terry Ryan nor am I Paul Molitor, so unfortunately I can't "put May in the rotation".

As for my post, I was replying to someone who said his "command and stuff as a starter was suspect" with stats that totally refuted that. I was not making a prediction on his BB rate should he be allowed to start again.

As for "his walks being way down at the beginning of last year... that was unlikely to continue.. and didn't." Also, simply not true. 9 walks in 1st 30 innings as a Starter, 10 in next 40 innings as a starter.

Major League Ready · June 30, 2016

Of course May should be moved to the rotation. He may fail, but so what? It may work out, it may not, but he can be moved back to the pen one final time if it does not. What I don't have patience for is not trying to maximize assets.

This.

Steve Lein · June 30, 2016

At this point this year, I'd be bringing him back up in the rotation to evaluate him there for the future.

But I could get behind him being the closer.

FormerMinnasotan · June 30, 2016

Considering how bad Nolasco and Milone have been I'd bring him back to be a starter. I'd bring up Berrios now, and once May has had a few tune up starts in AAA ball I'd bring him back as a starter. So then the rotation would be:Santana, Duffey, Gibson, Berrios, and May.

70charger · June 30, 2016

The longer this thread goes on, my thoughts have changed slightly. I don't think, as I did when I first posted, that May should be stretched out for 4-5 starts/3 weeks in Rochester. I think he should slot into the rotation with the Twins right now, knowing that for the next 4-5 starts, that's a bullpen game. I mean, they have 13 pitchers, right? They should be able to absorb that.

1st start - 40-45 pitches
2nd start - 50-55 pitches
3rd start - 60-65 pitches
4th start - 70-80 pitches
5th start - 85-100 pitches

After that? Go, Trevor May. Go.

I agree with this. Why bother with the option year? It is his last one, after all.

Jham · June 30, 2016

I know this is an anonymous message board, but I am NOT Terry Ryan nor am I Paul Molitor, so unfortunately I can't "put May in the rotation".

As for my post, I was replying to someone who said his "command and stuff as a starter was suspect" with stats that totally refuted that. I was not making a prediction on his BB rate should he be allowed to start again.

As for "his walks being way down at the beginning of last year... that was unlikely to continue.. and didn't." Also, simply not true. 9 walks in 1st 30 innings as a Starter, 10 in next 40 innings as a starter.

Last year first half: 1.92 BB/9 (primarily as starter). Last year 2nd half: 2.37 BB/9. This year 3.38 BB/9. Maybe he just found more command as a starter, but I don't think he'd ever been under 3.9 BB/9 as a minor league starter. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6398&position=P That's why I feel confident betting the over on 2.02 which led to average starter production, and why I'm concerned that his success, if you can call it that, as a starter was a mere flash in the pan. I'd put him back in the rotation to see if he has made some adjustment that has harnessed more control, but again, I'm not willing to bet on it, and in fact, I'm willing to bet heavily against it.

Vanimal46 · June 30, 2016

The longer this thread goes on, my thoughts have changed slightly. I don't think, as I did when I first posted, that May should be stretched out for 4-5 starts/3 weeks in Rochester. I think he should slot into the rotation with the Twins right now, knowing that for the next 4-5 starts, that's a bullpen game. I mean, they have 13 pitchers, right? They should be able to absorb that.

1st start - 40-45 pitches
2nd start - 50-55 pitches
3rd start - 60-65 pitches
4th start - 70-80 pitches
5th start - 85-100 pitches

After that? Go, Trevor May. Go.

I am good with this strategy. The first 3-4 starts won't be any different than the results we've been getting out of Milone lately.

h2oface · June 30, 2016

May is just another AAAA pitcher. He may have some good months ala Scott Diamond, but nothing special no matter whether he starts, or whether he is in the pen. Just another Twins pitcher that takes up space for far too long and paralyzes fans with false hope. Japan is calling.

Otto von Ballpark · July 1, 2016

Last year first half: 1.92 BB/9 (primarily as starter). Last year 2nd half: 2.37 BB/9. This year 3.38 BB/9. Maybe he just found more command as a starter, but I don't think he'd ever been under 3.9 BB/9 as a minor league starter. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6398&position=P That's why I feel confident betting the over on 2.02 which led to average starter production, and why I'm concerned that his success, if you can call it that, as a starter was a mere flash in the pan. I'd put him back in the rotation to see if he has made some adjustment that has harnessed more control, but again, I'm not willing to bet on it, and in fact, I'm willing to bet heavily against it.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the over/under at 3 or even 3.5 then? I don't think anyone here is saying he is likely to be better than 2.02, so I am not sure why you would bet around that number.

Of course, a lot has happened in the meantime, with changing roles and injuries, so I am not sure anyone really wants to bet on something like this, but they'd still probably like to see May get a chance.

laloesch · July 1, 2016

May is just another AAAA pitcher. He may have some good months ala Scott Diamond, but nothing special no matter whether he starts, or whether he is in the pen. Just another Twins pitcher that takes up space for far too long and paralyzes fans with false hope. Japan is calling.

Wow. I have to strongly disagree with this post. May IS NOT a AAAA pitcher. He has major league quality stuff.

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