Instant Reaction Poll: Rate the Hu for Jepsen Traded

[jokin]

 

In fairness, only Toronto with their low Canadian tax rates and awesome exchange rate could afford to sign the best catcher this off season......And only Toronto could acquire a top 3 guy at his position for multiple years of team control in back to back years (3B and SS). I mean, only they could have done that. Really. That other stuff they did? No way the Twins had the assets to do that.

 

They even kept dealing until the last possible minute before the deadline, and that was apparently only just to get a platoon/4th OF (Revere).

 

[gil4]

 

A (wesome)

B (etter than Boyer)

C (hrist, really?)

D (on't trade any more SP!)

F (ire Ryan)

 

 

This poll is like the schools these days - so little is required to get a B.

[jimmer]

TR has set the bar so low, there are actually people happy about this one minuscule move that could very likely do nothing to improve our bullpen.  I can't ever remember him ever doing anything at the deadline that made me even close to excited. Team chasing us gets arguably the best pitcher on the trade market and the best position player on the market.(Tulo, not Revere:-))

[beckmt]

Toronto figures with Yankee's pitching problems, they are likely to catch NY. Catching the Twins rates to be a small victory.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

TR has set the bar so low, there are actually people happy about this one minuscule move that could very likely do nothing to improve our bullpen.  I can't ever remember him ever doing anything at the deadline that made me even close to excited. Team chasing us gets arguably the best pitcher on the trade market and the best position player on the market.(Tulo, not Revere:-))

 

Different strokes for different folks. If the Twins had given up Berrios to get Price, what would the reaction have been? 

 

Toronto may catch us, and they're the better team. But they also have 13 games against the Yankees left. And whoever takes over if Anthopolous gets fired is inheriting a dumpster fire next year.

[whydidnt]

 

Different strokes for different folks. If the Twins had given up Berrios to get Price, what would the reaction have been? 

 

Toronto may catch us, and they're the better team. But they also have 13 games against the Yankees left. And whoever takes over if Anthopolous gets fired is inheriting a dumpster fire next year.

Of course, Flags fly forever. If the moves pay off this year, then it won't really matter next, will it?

 

Actually, their core of hitters is all signed through next year. 3/5's of their present rotation is set to be FA's though. However, they can likely re-sign Buerhle for less than the $19M he's making this year, or get a a better pitcher than him for that same amount. It will be interesting to see what they do to replace Estrada and Price, though. 

 

I think as it compares to the Twins, their situation going into next year really doesn't look worse. The Twins pitching seems to be more settled, but the bullpen still could be a mess. Toronto's lineup is multiple times better than the Twins and will likely remain that way. 

[jimmer]

 

Different strokes for different folks. If the Twins had given up Berrios to get Price, what would the reaction have been? 

 

Toronto may catch us, and they're the better team. But they also have 13 games against the Yankees left. And whoever takes over if Anthopolous gets fired is inheriting a dumpster fire next year.

They have Martin for years, Donaldson for years, Tulo for years, Devon Travis for years, Encarnacion for another year, Bautista for another year, and so on. They are way set up for next year too.

 

So I think if their GM doesn't have his contract renewed (cause his contract is over at the end of this year, right?), the next GM has plenty of weapons still, even if they don't step up to pay Price or get a pitcher in FA.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It's because it's the typical Twins trade. They're not acquiring an impact player, but they're still unnecessarily overpaying for that guy.

This was post #10 and captures my thoughts perfectly.

 

Jepson is ok but maybe there were bigger fish to angle for? Twins could have maybe thrown in a corner bat like Vargas, who had nowhere to play, and then gotten Jake McGee, who is miles better and younger than Jepsen. I don't know, just an idea.

 

The last couple weeks just leaves you with a "that's it?" type of feeling.

 

Whatever, it's Ryan and he plays the long game, the verrrrry long game. Jepsen will help and needs to get to the park tonight if possible.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

They have Martin for years, Donaldson for years, Tulo for years, Devon Travis for years, Encarnacion for another year, Bautista for another year, and so on. They are way set up for next year too.

 

So I think if their GM doesn't have his contract renewed (cause his contract is over at the end of this year, right?), the next GM has plenty of weapons still, even if they don't step up to pay Price or get a pitcher in FA.

 

Travis is the only one of those players on the right side of 30. The core of their offense is approaching their decline phase years. And they gutted their farm system to make a final run. If Toronto were a Led Zeppelin song, they'd be Achilles' Last Stand.

[h2oface]

I am not bothered by the prospects that were traded, I am bothered about the reliever that was traded for. More of the same. No splash here. Not even a set of rings around were the pebble hit the water. This trade doesn't improve the team, it just allows Ryan to say he made a trade. This is so token it is trying to get a fare on the A train, but the train stopped taking tokens years ago. 

[jimmer]

 

Travis is the only one of those players on the right side of 30. The core of their offense is approaching their decline phase years. And they gutted their farm system to make a final run. If Toronto were a Led Zeppelin song, they'd be Achilles' Last Stand.

I keep forgetting how everyone falls apart at age 30.  My bad. Maybe they will bulk order some canes.

 

 I think they have at least next year and probably a couple more.  Maybe they can go find a 39 year old RF like Ryan did this offseason to help them next year.

[SwainZag]

 

I am not bothered by the prospects that were traded, I am bothered about the reliever that was traded for. More of the same. No splash here. Not even a set of rings around were the pebble hit the water. This trade doesn't improve the team, it just allows Ryan to say he made a trade. This is so token it is trying to get a fare on the A train, but the train stopped taking tokens years ago. 

 

Jepsen instantly becomes the best right handed reliever in the Twins bullpen, how does that not improve the team?  

[d-mac]

 

Like the saying goes:

Fool me once, shame on me.
Fool me twice, shame on you.
Fool me every year for the last 17 years: Fire Ryan.

 

Unfortunately I've run out of likes for today. This certainly deserves two likes.

 

[jimmer]

Blue Jays got Mark Lowe too

[jimmer]

Blue Jays right behind us for the 2nd wild card.  They get Tulo, Price, Hawkins, Revere, Lowe.

 

We get Jepsen.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

But its not like Hu and Tapia were A or B prospects and the Twins had better internal options for right now.

Why don't you think Hu is a B prospect?

 

He was rated 15th best Twins prospect coming in to the season on Knuckleballs... who is also a TD poster and lives in Cedar Rapids and watched most of Hu's starts IN PERSON last season. So, Hu was a top 15 prospect on the same lists that Sano and Buxton were on. Hu might have been a Twins top 10 prospect going into 2016 if things shook out differently. Also, Hu has a better stat line than Corey Meisner, who was traded for Clippard this week. Yeah these are A ball guys, but still. Why couldn't Ryan just say "no one in our Top 20."

 

So yeah, I think Ryan overpaid. I also bet you that Tampa Bay got the guy they wanted. Did Ryan get the guy he wanted? I think this also gets to why people are just put off by this trade/non-trade trade deadline inaction.

[SwainZag]

 

Blue Jays right behind us for the 2nd wild card.  They get Tulo, Price, Hawkins, Revere, Lowe.

 

We get Jepsen.

 

Comparing the cores of both teams before the trades should be taken into consideration.  The Jays are in a better position to sell off a lot of depth and make a run.  Let's not act they both were in identical situations and they decided to and the Twins didn't.  The majority of the Jays core is 29 or older.  The majority of the Twins core is under that age.

[Sweetwater]

I've been a TR supporter, but I think he blew it here. Being down on Hu is a contrarian take. He's been stellar every step of the way, isn't old, and reportedly has good stuff. Not great, but good. His WHIP and K/9 are very strong. This reeks of the Matt Capps trade. Overpaying for a bullpen guy who barely moves the needle. Would rather we stood pat.

[TheLeviathan]

1) I like what Toronto did, but that doesn't mean the Twins HAD to match them. Not every year you are in the mix necessitates huge moves.

 

2) The Twins needed to do more, Ryan has mismanaged the pen all year.

 

3) angst over Ryan's inaction is justified, but it has tipped too far to expecting the Twins to do something huge or else it was a failed deadline, as if there is no gray area. I would hope there is no pressure to HAVE to do things regardless of the value/sense of a move.

 

So many false dilemmas by both "sides".

[Craig Arko]

I guess I'll wait and give the guy a chance to see what he can do. If we avoid blowing a few leads as a result I'm not sure there's much else to ask of him.

[Dantes929]

I would prefer the Twins promote from within and as long as we have a highly ranked minor league system don't care if we never make moves.     I also prefer trading prospects for prospects and major leaguers for major leaguers.     There are those that dismiss prospects as useless until they are traded away. Isn't Jepsen the definition of a proven major leaguer?   I have less of a problem with Ryan than I do with Molitor.   May is the best arm out there and has hardly been used.   Plus he is the guy that should be throwing multiple innings but has not.

[Thrylos]

FWIW, I did not mind Hu, but I did mind Tapia.  I think that he has a higher upside than Hu.   And I would not mind trading them for an 8 inning guy, but Jepsen has a 0 fWAR this season.  ZERO.  Better than the Twins have, but still....  ZERO.  Replacement level.

[jimmer]

 

FWIW, I did not mind Hu, but I did mind Tapia.  I think that he has a higher upside than Hu.   And I would not mind trading them for an 8 inning guy, but Jepsen has a 0 fWAR this season.  ZERO.  Better than the Twins have, but still....  ZERO.  Replacement level.

And he hasn't exactly been stellar with inherited runs these last two seasons.  Worse than our bullpen has been.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you allow that Hu's value approximates that of Stewart's, and assign a value of zero to Tapia, then the Twins used the 4th overall pick of the 2013 amateur draft to select a pitcher whose value two years later is equal to that of a 31 year old replacement-level (2015 WAR 0.0) right-handed reliever.

 

So solely by that equation, either the Twins kind of suck at trading, or kind of suck at drafting.

So there are teams out there that score on every draft pick they make?

 

I'm not defending the Twins' drafts but this post is an absurd example of false equivalency.

 

Maybe the Twins are the bestest drafters evah because they got Berrios in the supplemental round. See how that works?

 

No? Good, because it doesn't.

[jun]

 

Seriously...you are quoting numbers for Class A level talent. How many guys have we had at that level that had similar numbers and never, ever really had productive careers.  I will let the Stat Geeks, fill in the blanks, but let's look at totals for people like: Kevin Slowey, Boof Bonser, etc...there is a stadium full of Class A level talent with similar numbers that ended up being crap and couldn't produce at a higher level.  You have to give up something to get something...there are not a lot of even trades in the business.  Usually someone gets a slightly better end of the deal, but if it helps the club for a couple of years than it might be worth it.  Let's talk in three years and see where our boy Hu is at.  Even if he was the worst Relief Pitcher traded, that shouldn't factor into this trade, it can still be a good trade for the Twins because it makes your current roster better.

I don't really care for this year. This team is not going to the playoff. Jepsen is just slightly better than Boyer. Hu could get to the big league as soon as next season and he is a real competitor. He might be a better starter than Jay. It's just another terrible trade. It reminds me of that Ramos for Capps trade. Very similar. If in the future, the Twins is one good starter short of post season, who should we blame?

[jun]

Trading a starter for a reliever is never going to be good. A starter could easily be converted to a reliever with success. (Davis, Perkins) It's like trading a Watermelon for an apple. Hu is also much younger. What the Twins should have done is to promote from within. Achter, Duffey and Rogers should all be good candidates.

[DocBauer]

 

On the plus side, no more stupid Hu jokes in a week or so.......which is something I demanded a few weeks ago on a Hu thread.

Now, just Hu are you referring to?

[jimmer]

For me, it has nothing to do with who we gave up. I mean, Hu cares? :-)

 

My issue is while teams with similar markets as us are in playoff contention and going for it hard, we get Jepsen and that's it.   

 

Or maybe it's because no matter what we always have deadlines like this.  But at least TR can say he did something.

 

edit: sorry Mike, I never saw you call for no more.

[nicksaviking]

I didn't want another declining 30+ year old who is still under contract next year. I wanted the team to get rid of those kind of players.

[LaBombo]

 

I'm not defending the Twins' drafts but this post is an absurd example of false equivalency.
 

 

And I'm not attacking the Twins' drafts.    So that's a win for everybody!

 

 

As for the rest, it's fine that you believe that my post suggests a false equivalency, but you didn't attempt to explain why.

 

As I tried to make clear with the phrase "solely by that equation", my comparison had nothing to do with Jose Berrios (or Crunch Berries, for that matter), or other teams' drafts, or anything else you mentioned.

 

You approximately equated the value of Kohl Stewart to that of Hu.    The Twins equated the value of Hu to Jepsen (or less than Jepsen if you allow that Tapia has any value) when they traded for him.  WAR equates the value of Jepsen to a replacement player.

 

Stewart ≈ Hu ≤ Jeppesen = 0.0 WAR = replacement player.    ===>    Stewart ≤ replacement player.

 

So assuming that you stand by your valuation of Hu as comparable to Stewart (and I can't see why you shouldn't), then it seems that your quarrel with "absurd false equivalency" lies either with Terry Ryan or the WAR formulation of player value, not with me.