Odd SP out

[DaveW]

With Santana back this weekend that means one guy is "out" of the rotation.

 

Pelf, Hughes and Gibson are all safe IMO and Milone has been pitching lights out lately.

 

 

While I hate to see him get sent down or to the pen, I think the choice has to be May.

[GACbaseball]

Pelfrey needs to get traded. He's been very good for us this year but his value will never be higher. We have so many SP options but he is the only one whose value is higher than his ability.

 

Hughes

Gibson

Santana

Milone

May

 

If any of these guys struggle, we still have Nolasco, Duffey, and even Berrios to work into the rotation.

Trade Pelfrey for a decent catcher or some international signing bonus money....?

[sane]

And your first argument is that "we still have Nolasco"?

 

I was unable to continue reading due to an outbreak of the dry heaves.

[Halsey Hall]

Nolasco is done for the year, book it!  Any talk of trading Pelfrey is crazy.  Who knows how Santana will pitch, he might not be as good as May.  For now, May will go to the pen, and Meyer back down to AAA.  With our lack of hitting we need the best pitchers on the mound.

[nytwinsfan]

At least put May in the bullpen (if you must pull him -- I would pull Milone). Send down Thompson. I don't mind having just one lefty.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

 

Trade Pelfrey for a decent catcher or some international signing bonus money....?

 

I don't see it.  We all assume that Santana will be lights out and the others will remain productive. Pelfrey would get a very low return and I believe he has more value as an insurance policy against injury or one of the current starters losing effectiveness.

 

I would agree that May is the odd man out for now - but I don't believe we have seen the last of him in the rotation this year.   

[SirLoin]

I could see May going to the bullpen and Meyer being sent back down.  If there's a bat that can be added to the lineup in exchange for a package including Pelfrey.  

[Ben Noble]

Put Santana in the bullpen for a week and run through the rotation we have a couple more times before making a decision. If it comes down to it, I'd rather keep May stretched out in the Rochester rotation than stashed in the Twins' 'pen.

[nicksaviking]

Why is May the odd man out?  Even with his bomb of an outing this weekend, he has been better than Pelfrey in June.  Not saying Pelfrey wasn't pretty good in June, May was just better.

 

May's development is more important to the future of the team than any kind of short term glory and appeasement of vets in my opinion.  May looks to be a future cornerstone member of the rotation even if he's not an ace.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think Milone will be the odd man out.

 

Pelfrey is worth more to the Twins to pitch every 5th day for them and then leave for nothing at the end of the year than any player or players they would receive in a trade.

 

The Twins could probably get more in return for the younger, leftier Tommy Milone. I don't think the Twins are going to trade any of their SPs any time soon - maybe near the deadline if they have collapsed, but the Twins probably think that having 6 or 7 starting pitchers that are league average or better is a good problem to have for a team in the hunt for a playoff spot.

 

It's a tricky situation to be towards the end of a re-build and also contending for a wild card spot. The Twins shouldn't be looking to deal away anyone that will be taking the place of Suzuki, Hunter, Mauer, Plouffe, or the older starting pitchers.

 

The plan should be to make a run this year with what they've got already, and if anything add longer term pieces so they can be contenders for the next 4-5 years as the younger guys reach their prime talent level. Maybe a smaller trade to pickup an Oswaldo Arcia or Josmil Pinto-like bat for the bench...

 

I think May should stay in the MLB rotation, Milone to AAA, Meyer stays in the MLB bullpen, and one of the other bullpen guys also departs (let's say Duensing or Thompson) when Hicks is healthy to bring the total number of pitchers down to 12.

[Loosey]

 

The plan should be to make a run this year with what they've got already, and if anything add longer term pieces so they can be contenders for the next 4-5 years as the younger guys reach their prime talent level. Maybe a smaller trade to pickup an Oswaldo Arcia or Josmil Pinto-like bat for the bench...

 

I think May should stay in the MLB rotation, Milone to AAA, Meyer stays in the MLB bullpen, and one of the other bullpen guys also departs (let's say Duensing or Thompson) when Hicks is healthy to bring the total number of pitchers down to 12.

Maybe I am misunderstanding this first part, but why would they make a trade for an Arcia or Pinto-like bat for the bench when they have Arcia and Pinto in AAA?  I agree with May staying in the rotation.  He needs to stay there since he is a long-term piece.  As good as he is pitching now, I think Milone is odd man out.  Also agree with Duensing AND Thompson getting the boot.  RE: Duensing -The Twins have hung on to "nice guys" too long and it probably sucks for them on a personal level, but from a competitive standpoint those decisions need to be made.

[TheLeviathan]

If it's May, I'm going to be really pissed.

[jimmer]

Better not be May.

[drjim]

 

If it's May, I'm going to be really pissed.

 

Agree with this. One bad outing can't outweigh his otherwise great month. There has to be a deeper level of thinking than what happened in the last game.

 

If everyone has a typical game this turn, I would guess Milone goes to the bullpen. I don't think that is a great use of Milone, but really hard to justify sending him to AAA with clear bullpen arms that should be sent down or even DFAed.

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

Here's a different option - at one point weren't they talking about Hughes having a bit of a "dead arm"?  Maybe put him in the bullpen, for one or two times through the rotation, just to see how everyone shakes out and give Hughes a blow.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding this first part, but why would they make a trade for an Arcia or Pinto-like bat for the bench when they have Arcia and Pinto in AAA?  I agree with May staying in the rotation.  He needs to stay there since he is a long-term piece.  As good as he is pitching now, I think Milone is odd man out.  Also agree with Duensing AND Thompson getting the boot.  RE: Duensing -The Twins have hung on to "nice guys" too long and it probably sucks for them on a personal level, but from a competitive standpoint those decisions need to be made.

 

that was just a little snark about Pinto and Arcia not being on the MLB roster and not playing well in AAA.

 

The Twins could really use a better bat that is also a catcher, as well as a lefty masher...

 

Another reason I think Milone is the odd man out: he has options. He can go to AAA and the Twins can still keep him. I think he's a better as a  starter than he'd be coming out of the pen, but that's just a feeling I have, not based on anything concrete. 

[AWOLNATION_11]

Despite what has been said by Molitor, I wouldn't be surprised if they just go 6-man rotation until the All-Star Break and re-evaluate at that time.  No off-days from the 5th until the break. Puts it off for a turn and maybe something happens to make the decision for them.

[howieramone2]

Why is May the odd man out?  Even with his bomb of an outing this weekend, he has been better than Pelfrey in June.  Not saying Pelfrey wasn't pretty good in June, May was just better.

 

May's development is more important to the future of the team than any kind of short term glory and appeasement of vets in my opinion.  May looks to be a future cornerstone member of the rotation even if he's not an ace.

Continuing to use a vet who has been lights out is hardly appeasement. May, may or may not be a cornerstone of the future. Also, there are some on the board who believe the future is right now.

[jorgenswest]

Milone has performed better (by ERA+) since his first full season than any of the other 6. He is the only lefty. He is 28 and under team control until 2019.

 

Put him in the pen? He is probably the worst fit of the 7. He pitches better innings 4-6 than 1-3. In the first three innings he has an ERA of 4.33 with 16-12 K/BB. Innings 4-6 he has an ERA of 1.56 and 16/6. Is it possible that as the game progresses he gradually gets the unpire to give him a little more of the corner of the plate? He also has career platoon splits that are neutral and much more ideal for a starting role.

 

Pelfrey or Gibson? They with Milone have ERAs in the low 3s. How can any of the three be removed from their spot? What kind of message does that send to the team? Work your tail off. Back it up with performance and it doesn't matter. Pelfrey specifically had to fight back from two injuries and do it without the use of PEDs. Now they are going to replace him with a guy that tried to do it the easy way? Great message to send the organization.

 

That leaves Hughes and May. It isn't going to be Hughes. If contracts didn't matter, it would be Santana in the pen. May has one start before Santana returns. He needs to be lights out.

 

If they want to do what is best for the team, they really need to expect Santana to earn it. He hasn't yet. In 12.2 innings he has allowed 17 base runners with 2 home runs. He has 6 strike outs and 4 walks. You might recall Tommy Milone's numbers in AAA. in 38.2 innings it was 28 base runners and 47 Ks. There is no way a guy can allow 17 base runners while striking out just 6 batters in AAA and then be successful in the majors. Santana has one more game to show he is ready. He needs to show it. 

[Craig Arko]

 

Despite what has been said by Molitor, I wouldn't be surprised if they just go 6-man rotation until the All-Star Break and re-evaluate at that time.  No off-days from the 5th until the break. Puts it off for a turn and maybe something happens to make the decision for them.

I'd be okay with that.

[SirLoin]

I would actually like to see Pelfrey get traded for an arm to shore up the bullpen.  Perhaps like a Tony Watson from the Pirates or Justin Grimm from the Cubs.  

[nicksaviking]

 

Continuing to use a vet who has been lights out is hardly appeasement. May, may or may not be a cornerstone of the future. Also, there are some on the board who believe the future is right now.

 

Pelfrey has not been lights out.  The guy has a 4.3 K/9.  That is beyond absurd and his success is clearly not sustainable unless we jump into our time machine and head back to 1876.  May has been better than him lately, putting the rookie in the pen or AAA instead of moving a vet smells like country club antics to me.

 

This team has one of the worst offenses, below average defense, perhaps the worst bullpen in the league and a group of starters that are number #3s at best, and absolute time bombs at worst.  The games are fun to watch and I hope they keep winning, but the future is not now, and any move to stunt or impair the future for this year is a huge mistake.

[Blackjack]

I don't see how you can send Milone down after how well he has pitched.  Keep him in the rotation until he pitches himself out of it.  I personally would like to see how he does the rest of the year.  Other teams have 'crafty leftys' that seem to be able to win. 

 

Hughes and Santana, with the money they are making, are givens.

 

Gibson is also a given.  He's pitched well and is part of the future.

 

Pelfrey has pitched too well to take him out.

 

That leaves May.  With that last dud he pitched himself out of the rotation. Sorry but thats the way competition works, you don't perform you're out. Put him in the pen, he could be really good there and can be moved back to a starter at a moments notice.

 

Entertain offers for Pelfrey and Milone at the trade deadline, if its something good, trade one of them, other wise go with what I outlined above - Hughes, Santana, Pelfrey, Gibson, Milone, with May in reserve for the rest of the year.  

 

 

[Dantes929]

It really is kind of absurd.    The ONLY thing that makes sense at all is putting Santana in the pen until someone falters.    Milone has the best career ERA, pitched lights out in the minors, and has an ERA of 2.03 in his last 5 starts.   If he is demoted I will be pissed.  

May had 5 quality starts in his prior 7 games.  Even this last start might have been better if Robinison makes the catch and May turns the double play.   If he is demoted I will be pissed.   Pelfrey has the lowest ERA on the team.   If he is demoted I will be pissed.   Gibson has been great.  If he is demoted I will be pissed.   Leaves us with Hughes who has been pitching better recently against Santana who hasn't pitched at all until recently.  

 

[Dantes929]

 

Pelfrey has not been lights out.  The guy has a 4.3 K/9.  That is beyond absurd and his success is clearly not sustainable unless we jump into our time machine and head back to 1876.  May has been better than him lately, putting the rookie in the pen or AAA instead of moving a vet smells like country club antics to me.

 

This team has one of the worst offenses, below average defense, perhaps the worst bullpen in the league and a group of starters that are number #3s at best, and absolute time bombs at worst.  The games are fun to watch and I hope they keep winning, but the future is not now, and any move to stunt or impair the future for this year is a huge mistake.

The future is probably not now but the current team is likely diminished by putting Santana in the rotation right now.  Future is not hurt at all by putting him in the pen until it become clear who should be replaced.   The elephant in the room is fact that Santana has not dominated the minors and there has been little talk about how much the PED's contributed to his last couple of years of success.   It is absurd that the Twins are not able to void or renegotiate his contract.  

[Craig Arko]

I predict no matter how this turns out there will be rioting in the streets here.

[howieramone2]

Pelfrey has not been lights out.  The guy has a 4.3 K/9.  That is beyond absurd and his success is clearly not sustainable unless we jump into our time machine and head back to 1876.  May has been better than him lately, putting the rookie in the pen or AAA instead of moving a vet smells like country club antics to me.

 

This team has one of the worst offenses, below average defense, perhaps the worst bullpen in the league and a group of starters that are number #3s at best, and absolute time bombs at worst.  The games are fun to watch and I hope they keep winning, but the future is not now, and any move to stunt or impair the future for this year is a huge mistake.

The past several years when our favorite team couldn't possibly compete, the win now guys were thick as mosquitos. I wonder what happened to those guys. Regardless, Ryan is going for the jugular.

[Otto von Ballpark]

May has the worst ERA among the current starters. although the best FIP.  (Interestingly, Nolasco beats him on both counts -- an even worse ERA, and an even better FIP.)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins look at that Milwaukee start and think May is riskier than the other options right now.  And even though he was good prior to that in June, he generally wasn't working beyond 6 innings, which is another demerit given our current pen (although ironically, May himself could notably improve the pen).

 

In any case, May should get one more start Wednesday. 

[Rosterman]

May to Rochester to continue to start. Putting him in the bullpen wou;d be great, but we already have one arm too many there.

 

Speaking of the bullpen, what can be done. It needs something. Maybe Meyer will be a gem (remember, we still have one arm too many). Unless we go with Oliveros, most of the other prospects are soft0tossing alsorans (Darnell, Achter, Thielbar). If you can option out Thompson, would. Duensing's time has come and gone. He might be able to pick up with another team.

 

Milone is a lefty and has some value. But not sure if he is that pitcher (as well as Pelfrey) that a team NEEDS to trade for to put them over the hump for contention. But if you can get some aprt/s to help the club not just this year but down the road, do it. Both or either.

 

I like the starting prospects a lot mroe in the minors...from Rogers to Dean to Berrios to Duffy than any we have trotted out in the past).

 

[stringer bell]

I would agree that as of today May is the odd one out. May also has an option remaining, but I think it would better serve the team for him to go to the bullpen for now. I think he could be effective there and the club needs bullpen help.

 

Milone's numbers since his recall have been outstanding. May's are good. I really doubt Milone could help in the bullpen and May could be a real force there. Tough call, but I go with Milone to stay and May to the 'pen.