Game Recap: White Sox 4, Twins 2

Time for some heat from writers/bloggers/beat reporters on the front office, Rocco, Wes Johnson, and the hitting coach. A team simply cannot regress this hard 35 games into the season with no heat on them. I don't think Rocco should be fired, nor should anyone in the front office, but I do think a change, especially on the hitting side of things, would be welcome. The Mets fired their beloved hitting coach after not getting the results they wanted. The Twins coaches should not be immune to this. I've said it the past few days, maybe even weeks, but this team simply isn't very good. Almost every single player outside of Buxton, Cruz, Donaldson, and Polanco as of late has regressed. Time for someone inside the organization to take some blame and accountability for things, and it starts with Rocco saying something other than "Yeah, these guys are really battling but aren't getting the results we want. It'll come around eventually." Show some fight. Please.

They lose the same way all the time. When was the last time that someone got a clutch late inning hit to tie the game or take the lead? Bullpen---just bad enough..again. First Robles lets an inherited runner score. then typical Rogers...he gets 2 outs and then gives up the RBI hit to turn it into a 2 run game again.

Meanwhile Twins strike out at every opportunity. None of them escape this. 12 more men left on. They had chances galore and just never got the clutch hit. And often the RISP were with less than two outs.

Twins are now the worst team in MLB and they have earned every bit of that. The hitters look frustrated from the time they step up to the time they walk back to the dugout.

Time for a shaleup...something...anything

chili davis is probably available.

No point in opening more capacity. Nobody is going to go to watch these losers.

My great uncle was Wes Westrum from Clearbrook MN and had these conversations with him as a kid a long time ago.... He was considered one of the greatest defensive catchers in his era; I know I have his glove he used in two world series and you would not believe it was a catchers glove....

Many teams forget winning ballgames in April is more important than August since you set the tone early. This year we lost (0-7) in extra innings and X amount after 7 innings!

So what happened? likely technology has improved through the roof folks. Watch the good hitters they are not swinging at swings outside the heat maps.

We really need to look at heat maps of catchers and hitters; many of our pitchers simply do not match up with their battery mates on calls. Randy D. great example veteran catcher he did well, rookies calling the game he did not. TD needs to show this as well it is important as all get out.....

I Forgot to mention Uncle Wes managed both the SF Giants when they moved from New York (he played his career with NY Giants in the 50's) and only manager to be traded for another manager Casey Stengel to the NY Mets (Expansion team)..... So yeah lots of baseball smarts as he was player, manager, and long time scout........

So Rocco lost a lot of his staff and it is starting to show now. MLB managers are like Team CEOs and bench/in game coaches are the ones actually talking to the guys with the game plans now....

Great hitting coaches are rare and this year I swear the pitches are being tipped somehow or the catchers are not calling a good game....

Also what the heck happened to bunting anymore???????

It's incredible how every single high-leverage situation seems to turn out poorly for the Twins this season, on both sides of the ball. I know it feels like clockwork to all of us fans at this point, and it looks like the players have that same "here we go again" mindset in big situations. This team desperately needs someone to step up in some big situations and help everyone shake off that mindset. Maybe someone needs to sacrifice a chicken in the clubhouse or something?

Rocco lost a lot of his staff the past two years and i believe it is showing up now this year.....

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Robles outperformed the odds there......the problem was the starter was finally left in like you all have been BLASTING the manager for not doing.......I'll sit here and wait for everyone to talk about how wrong they were about that.....

The thing is no one has any faith in this bullpen. This is the only option. Pineda and Berrios are way better than anyone there.

The Twins went 0-for-10 with RISP,

'nuff said...

2 minutes ago, jun said:

The thing is no one has any faith in this bullpen. This is the only option. Pineda and Berrios are way better than anyone there.

Now i am very disappointed with the Twins.   They are ranked last in MLB league.   The key of winning games is to have an excellent starting and relief pitchers.  Too many LOBs in those games!  Too many blown games!  

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I didn't say too long....I said it didn't work...which is how people here seem to judge decisions......and, none of it was personal. You attacked my position, not me. Which is great on a forum. He'd just walked two guys.....people here would be blasting him if he'd left him and it didn't work.....really, there is no good option there given this bullpen. If they had even an average 'pen, making the move there is an easy choice. Frankly, I feel bad for Rocco.....there just aren't good options, and it isn't like he gets to hire these guys, he gets who he gets.

Tbf, the 2nd walk was a really bad call and most definitely a strike, and had a chance to be a strike em out throw em out, and instead resulted in none. Leaving in Pineda was the right call there, result or not. I had zero issue with how Rocco managed this game (which is a rarity for me in this young season). However, if you think Rocco is just “getting who he gets” you’re fooling yourself. Rocco doesn’t have the final say on players on the roster, but he certainly does get a say on it somewhat. 

1 hour ago, Mill1634 said:

Time for some heat from writers/bloggers/beat reporters on the front office, Rocco, Wes Johnson, and the hitting coach. A team simply cannot regress this hard 35 games into the season with no heat on them.......time for someone inside the organization to take some blame and accountability for things, and it starts with Rocco saying something other than "Yeah, these guys are really battling but aren't getting the results we want. It'll come around eventually." Show some fight. Please.

100% Absolutely agree. There seems to be a lot of reporters saying things like "Gee whiz, another bad game for the Twins" and not much else. This is a train wreck and the media is just mailing it in, like the coaching staff. LaVelle did tweet last night that this could be a 100 loss team but he's not really the Twins beat reporter right now. No pressure at all from media or ownership or front office...

Now you also mentioned fight. Here's the crazy part:

Josh Donaldson: known as a competitor, can be a red-assed hothead. Wants to WIN. Period.

Luis Arraez: Battles every plate appearance. Gritty. Gutty. Fun. Contagious attitude.

Nelson Cruz: Ageless talent and the one of the biggest cheerleaders in the game. Yells and celebrates and has tons of fun with teammates in the dugout.

La Tortuga: If not a competitor, at least he's a fun addition to a clubhouse.

Buxton: A huge "LETS GO!" guy who gets fired up when he makes big plays and gets fired up when his teammates do as well.

Berrios: Works hard, has the respect of his teammates and is not shy about pumping his fist. Clearly wants to WIN.

How on earth can a team with the players listed above be so listless? What on earth is going on? It's like Rocco's putting sleeping pills in the gatorade or something. Not only are the Twins playing way under their abilities, but they are also sleepwalking through the whole thing. It's insane and even crazier is that all we hear is "gee whiz these Twins aren't playing well" from the local media and from Rocco.

This is a dumpster fire and I for one want answers.

50 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which RP and SP do you think he wants more than he has? Including the majors and minors? Or hitters? I mean, the minors are barren other than Thorpe and Jeffers at this point for immediate help.....

Not entirely sure what you’re getting at, but I’m mainly speaking before the team breaks north outta ST. of course he isn’t saying, hey go sign alex colome, let Matt wisler go, etc. but he certainly does have a say on final roster construction and things like “hey, we might want to go sign another Tyler clippard part as I don’t think Stashak is the answer.”  Things along those lines he has a say on. Not the final say, but a say nonetheless. 

25 minutes ago, bighat said:

It's insane and even crazier is that all we hear is "gee whiz these Twins aren't playing well" from the local media and from Rocco.

This is a dumpster fire and I for one want answers.

I'm curious about what specifically you'd like the media to do or say, and what you think would change because of it. I think the team and the organization is well aware of how badly this season is going and how frustrated all of the fans are. What answers would satisfy you? I don't think anyone really has any answers at this point.

35 games, 32 different batting orders. I understand some of this is necessary because of injuries, but I don't see other teams shuffling line-ups as much as the Twins do. A little consistency might let guys get more comfortable at the plate and understand roles better. That, and other than Cruz, Donaldson & Sano (and maybe Buxton when he returns), more guys need to start moving runners over instead of weak pop-ups to the SS.  

17 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I agree, Mike. Just because Pineda didn't do well in the 6th doesn't mean you pull every starter after 80-85 pitches. Let these guys go and give them a chance to work out of jams. This bullpen isn't getting better any time soon so we have to try to get length out of the starters. 

Speaking of which, the one place we seem to have a little tiny surplus is starting pitching with Thorpe and Dobnak at AAA. Let's call one of them up to start and take a current starter and put him in the bullpen to see if he could be more successful in one or two inning stints. I nominate Matt Shoemaker since we have no long-term commitment there and he has been our worst starting pitcher by far. Maybe we will get lucky and he will be successful as a high leverage reliever, reinvented himself, and provide value at the trade Deadline. His level of starting pitching is replaceable with either Dobnak or, I think, with Thorpe who we need to develop anyway. 

This is now officially become a development year, not a contending year. Let's get the young guys some real opportunities. Kirilloff and Larnach need to play every day, Garlick and Kepler platoon when Buxton comes back. On the pitching side, I would actually bring up Dobnak first with Shoemaker going to the bullpen, then bring up Thorpe if there is an injury or when we inevitably trade Happ at the deadline for low-level prospects.  Let's give Andrew Vasquez as a chance in the pen and we should really think about whether Jax or Duran can come up this year and get their feet wet at the MLB level by pitching out our bullpen. I know Levine subscribes to the two months evaluate, two months fix, two months enjoy theory of roster construction but I don't think we need to wait our full two months to make this change. Six weeks of bad baseball is enough.

For what it's worth Big Mike threw 96 pitches, not 80-85. Even so, he's BIG and he's been around for a while. There's no reason why he couldn't throw 110 pitches or more. Unless he told Rocco he was tiring, the option to leave him out there or go to the bullpen which has imploded almost every game would give me reason to let him throw until his arm falls off. We all know that happens now-a-days once a pitcher reaches the magical number of 100 pitches or more. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Right now one would have to question Rocco's sanity with his every move to quick hook a starter and go to the bullpen. With the current state of the bullpen I'd be letting the pitchers go 8 or 9 innings everytime out if they aren't imploding like the bullpen. 

Bottom line, 2 runs isn't enough.

The pitching has been bad, the relievers have been bad, the lineup has been bad, Rocco's managed himself into some horrible situations (that infield alignment in Oakland with a lead in extra innings would be "Exhibit A" at the trial) . . . . 

This team is doing next to nothing right beyond showing up for the games on time.