Four Trade Packages That Actually Make Sense for Joe Ryan

[jorgenswest]

I think all of these deals are a notch above the deal for Berrios. That is at least the floor they need to seek in two top 100 prospects. The Padres deal doesn’t hit that mark but Salas is a step above either Martin or SWR at that time.

I would not take less for Ryan. They need to get an overpay and I think each of these meet that threshold.

[Dman]

 

58 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Isn't Michael Harris their CFer? They could use an OFer, especially with Acuna's injuries, but they also need pitching. Sale is 37 years old. They have Lopez and Perez in their rotation. Strider can't stay healthy. Smith-Shawver is a nice piece. And Schwellenbach. But who is the future in their rotation beyond them? I'd say they need arms in their system every bit as much as they need an OFer.

I'm less position focused as most others. I just want talent. Ceiling talent. As much high ceiling talent as I can get. I'll figure out the details later once I see who can actually get close to reaching their ceiling in the majors. Hartman is quite possibly their best talent, from what I can see. So, he's who I want.

Well your deal makes more sense than mine as it includes two top 100 players which seems like the starting point for Ryan.  I'm just not as in love with Hartman for this team.  With his weaker arm he kind of reminds of a faster Luke Keaschal, but from the left side. So another lefty outfielder, granted he runs faster than anyone we have in the system.  Rodriguez and Jenkins are currently rated higher than Hartman in the top 100 as well and Hartman isn't really known for his power though he has an average grade whereas Rodriguez and Jenkins are plus there.  

I get what you are saying as Hartman is a top 100 talent with a potential higher ceiling than some of the arms I named. So in that regard he is the better choice, but I'd still want more arms given the state of the Twins system right now. Still I could see that deal working for both sides.  Caminiti and Hartman are both at A+ so far enough away that the trade would be attractive for Atlanta. Throw in some lower level players hopefully arms and that's a likely deal that could be made.

However, the Twins would need to get back another close to ready AAA arm in this deal or another one then as it hurts them as they don't have much to replace Ryan with.   If it's taking both Caminiti and Hartman I don't see Atlanta giving them Murphy as well unless the Twins would be giving them something else along with Ryan.  Hard to know what each side would be willing to do, but I think Atlanta has the players to make a deal for Ryan work.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I think there's a 0% chance Seattle is trading Kade Anderson. 

Concur.  Absolutely.  The best pitching prospect in MLB.com's list, currently sporting a 1.27 ERA at AA, isn't going anywhere.

Quote

The package I'd like to see the Twins get back is Cam Caminiti and Eric Hartman from Atlanta. 

Left-handed corner outfielder as the sweetener?  Submit your resume to 1 Twins Way, asap, and see whether the front office is hiring.

[bean5302]

On to trades that work? There's no goal for the analysis. Trades are useless if there isn't an end goal. Based on Tom Pohlad's comments, the Twins are in it to win the World Series as soon as possible.

First trade - It doesn't help the Twins at all. Like... at all, and it shoots the Yankees in the foot, too. Volpe looks like he's on the way out so the Yankees NEED a new SS. We don't need another infielder prospect. Lombard, Jr. vs. Kaelen Culpepper vs. Marek Houston. How much better is Lombard, Jr. than our other two high level SS prospects? I wouldn't rank him a lot higher, and I'm more concerned about a hitter who struggles against MiLB fastballs already than a hitter who "might" struggle against MLB offspeed/breaking stuff. I'd be surprised if Houston wasn't a top 100 prospect at the end of the year at this rate, and potentially top 50 with his defensive skills. Also, teams RARELY trade their very top 1-2 prospects. It just doesn't happen. Beyond that, you never trade a top rotation arm for a mid rotation ceiling starter. It's like this article is trying to find dollar value without purpose or considering the viewpoint of potential trade partners.

Second trade - Ryan is arguably (probably) a #4 starter for the Mariners. He does not slide to the front of that rotation. Like, get &^*^ REAL. The homerism needed to make the comment that Ryan slides to the front of that rotation... Jeeez.
2026 fWAR and FIP last 2 years
Woo - 2.7, 3.38
Gilbert - 2.6, 3.34
Kirby - 2.5, 3.31
Ryan - 2.5, 3.61

Under normal circumstances, a #4 starter would rarely pitch in the playoffs. I just don't see the value for Seattle on this. Seattle can't hit. They need hitting, not pitching.

Third trade - Again, the Dodgers do not need Joe Ryan, but unlike Seattle, the infinite resources of the Evil Empire of the West, I'm sure that organization would like to add him as Ryan would be nice insurance and a solid #3 or #4 arm for them. Blake Snell is close to returning for them and Glasnow appears to be close, too. Ohtani, and Yamamoto are unquestionably better than Ryan with the habitually hobbled up Snell also clearly superior when he's healthy. Sirota is probably a better Center Fielder prospect than Walker Jenkins who is universally viewed as a better corner OF prospect than CF, and Sirota has the All Star plus potential with the power if he can stick in CF. Fangraphs is decidedly down on his fielding instincts while other sources praise him and think he's solid as a long term CF. That said, the number one rule of trading a front line starter is to get back a pitching prospect with just as much or more ceiling than what you're giving up. That said... would you trade Walker Jenkins for 1.5yrs of Joe Ryan if your rotation was already stacked? What else do you think the Twins could legitimately get? Maybe Zazueta or Serwinowski?

The Padres are probably sellers not buyers.

 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

 

Well your deal makes more sense than mine as it includes two top 100 players which seems like the starting point for Ryan.  I'm just not as in love with Hartman for this team.  With his weaker arm he kind of reminds of a faster Luke Keaschal, but from the left side. So another lefty outfielder, granted he runs faster than anyone we have in the system.  Rodriguez and Jenkins are currently rated higher than Hartman in the top 100 as well and Hartman isn't really known for his power though he has an average grade whereas Rodriguez and Jenkins are plus there.  

I get what you are saying as Hartman is a top 100 talent with a potential higher ceiling than some of the arms I named. So in that regard he is the better choice, but I'd still want more arms given the state of the Twins system right now. Still I could see that deal working for both sides.  Caminiti and Hartman are both at A+ so far enough away that the trade would be attractive for Atlanta. Throw in some lower level players hopefully arms and that's a likely deal that could be made.

However, the Twins would need to get back another close to ready AAA arm in this deal or another one then as it hurts them as they don't have much to replace Ryan with.   If it's taking both Caminiti and Hartman I don't see Atlanta giving them Murphy as well unless the Twins would be giving them something else along with Ryan.  Hard to know what each side would be willing to do, but I think Atlanta has the players to make a deal for Ryan work.

I don't think this is a crazy take at all. Just not my line of thinking. I don't care if they get a close to ready AAA arm back for Ryan. Lopez, Taj, Abel, Matthews, Ober, Rojas, and Prielipp are enough arms for my liking at this point. I'm not playing for this year at all. Don't care who they throw out there in Ryan's place for the rest of 2026. They have the offseason to add depth to the rotation for 2027. Paredes as the 8th arm going into next year doesn't even make me mad. Couple offseason fliers and I'd be happy with the state of the rotation going into 2027.

I'd expect Caminiti and Hartman to both end this season in AA. Quick is already there. That'd give me 2 AA arms with good ceiling looking at 2028 debut possibilities. And another offseason to load up more there if needed. I just don't think the rotation is as dire as others do. And if I can spin Jeffers plus into Emerson Hancock, I'm really not worried.

My biggest complaint with the Twins has been that they stopped the rebuild midstream. Tommy Boy not letting them finish the job of setting this up as a transition year to get the young guys experience has made it more difficult to really get some momentum going towards truly building a winner, in my opinion. I think he actually hurt what I believe his goal truly is. I think he really does want a winner sooner than later, but I think not moving the rest of the veteran types has stuck them in a middle ground of trying to sell .500 as a success while also not putting them in a better spot for 2027 and beyond. I think they have enough between MLB and AAA that a few offseason adds could have put them in a really good spot for 2027 even without Ryan and/or Pablo and Jeffers. But I think they've pushed the window back by trying to win this year. I'm not worried as much about getting guys back in any of these deals that can help immediately. I just want ceiling. If they aren't here til 2028, that's totally fine with me. The window should be opening in 2027, but it's not a 1 year window. They're setting themselves up for a possible 1 year window by not moving Ryan and Lopez, but that sort of decision would likely come with a lessened chance at truly opening the window beyond that.

I don't care about 2026 at all. This team isn't good enough. And they've moved the transition year to next year, so I'm less interested in opening day 2027 performance than I am with 2nd half 2027 performance. So I'll take the highest ceiling guys I can get that can be part of a window starting late 2027 and moving forward. The sustainable part of winning is important, too. And grabbing guys that debut a year or 2 after the current wave helps with that.

[bean5302]

39 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Johan Santana did make 5 playoff starts for the Twins. I think he'd probably argue he wasn't a #3 starter.

What were the rankings for runs allowed by playoff teams? Worse than the rankings for runs scored?

Let me get right on your 100 hour analysis request of yours which you will summarily dismiss for an arbitrary reason if it supports my position.

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Concur.  Absolutely.  The best pitching prospect in MLB.com's list, currently sporting a 1.27 ERA at AA, isn't going anywhere.

Left-handed corner outfielder as the sweetener?  Submit your resume to 1 Twins Way, asap, and see whether the front office is hiring.

Haha, I understand the sarcasm, but Hartman is probably the best CFer we'd have if they got him. He's a faster and a better defender than Jenkins or Emma or any of those other guys. He'd probably be our #3 or 4 prospect depending on how people view him vs Culpepper. I don't care if we have 1000 lefty outfielders if he's better than 997 of them. Just get me more talent.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Let me get right on your 100 hour analysis request of yours which you will summarily dismiss for an arbitrary reason if it supports my position.

Dang, just asked a question. If you're going to make a statement like "Whomever wrote this seems woefully unqualified to have their opinions quoted on this site" I assumed you'd be able to provide the data to back it up. My bad. Was curious what your research showed since you said "I've done this analysis before." Wasn't asking for new analysis, just the stuff you claimed you'd already done.

[Mike Sixel]

Hartman is much higher rated than EmRod, by fangraphs anyway. 

I'm not in love with that deal, as Caminiti makes me nervous....I just don't see a good match with Atlanta for Ryan, for me anyway. Atlanta would have to put a lot of guys in there, since I don't live Caminiti. 

[Linus]

9 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't think this is a crazy take at all. Just not my line of thinking. I don't care if they get a close to ready AAA arm back for Ryan. Lopez, Taj, Abel, Matthews, Ober, Rojas, and Prielipp are enough arms for my liking at this point. I'm not playing for this year at all. Don't care who they throw out there in Ryan's place for the rest of 2026. They have the offseason to add depth to the rotation for 2027. Paredes as the 8th arm going into next year doesn't even make me mad. Couple offseason fliers and I'd be happy with the state of the rotation going into 2027.

I'd expect Caminiti and Hartman to both end this season in AA. Quick is already there. That'd give me 2 AA arms with good ceiling looking at 2028 debut possibilities. And another offseason to load up more there if needed. I just don't think the rotation is as dire as others do. And if I can spin Jeffers plus into Emerson Hancock, I'm really not worried.

My biggest complaint with the Twins has been that they stopped the rebuild midstream. Tommy Boy not letting them finish the job of setting this up as a transition year to get the young guys experience has made it more difficult to really get some momentum going towards truly building a winner, in my opinion. I think he actually hurt what I believe his goal truly is. I think he really does want a winner sooner than later, but I think not moving the rest of the veteran types has stuck them in a middle ground of trying to sell .500 as a success while also not putting them in a better spot for 2027 and beyond. I think they have enough between MLB and AAA that a few offseason adds could have put them in a really good spot for 2027 even without Ryan and/or Pablo and Jeffers. But I think they've pushed the window back by trying to win this year. I'm not worried as much about getting guys back in any of these deals that can help immediately. I just want ceiling. If they aren't here til 2028, that's totally fine with me. The window should be opening in 2027, but it's not a 1 year window. They're setting themselves up for a possible 1 year window by not moving Ryan and Lopez, but that sort of decision would likely come with a lessened chance at truly opening the window beyond that.

I don't care about 2026 at all. This team isn't good enough. And they've moved the transition year to next year, so I'm less interested in opening day 2027 performance than I am with 2nd half 2027 performance. So I'll take the highest ceiling guys I can get that can be part of a window starting late 2027 and moving forward. The sustainable part of winning is important, too. And grabbing guys that debut a year or 2 after the current wave helps with that.

This. You’ve nailed it once again. Get the highest ceiling guys you can get regardless of position and we can sort out the excess later if need be. If EmRod is great but doesn’t have anywhere to play he can be traded for additional value. Teams that are threats to win championships have several elite players, not a collection of mediocre bats that can’t play defense. 

[Dman]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't think this is a crazy take at all. Just not my line of thinking. I don't care if they get a close to ready AAA arm back for Ryan. Lopez, Taj, Abel, Matthews, Ober, Rojas, and Prielipp are enough arms for my liking at this point. I'm not playing for this year at all. Don't care who they throw out there in Ryan's place for the rest of 2026. They have the offseason to add depth to the rotation for 2027. Paredes as the 8th arm going into next year doesn't even make me mad. Couple offseason fliers and I'd be happy with the state of the rotation going into 2027.

I'd expect Caminiti and Hartman to both end this season in AA. Quick is already there. That'd give me 2 AA arms with good ceiling looking at 2028 debut possibilities. And another offseason to load up more there if needed. I just don't think the rotation is as dire as others do. And if I can spin Jeffers plus into Emerson Hancock, I'm really not worried.

My biggest complaint with the Twins has been that they stopped the rebuild midstream. Tommy Boy not letting them finish the job of setting this up as a transition year to get the young guys experience has made it more difficult to really get some momentum going towards truly building a winner, in my opinion. I think he actually hurt what I believe his goal truly is. I think he really does want a winner sooner than later, but I think not moving the rest of the veteran types has stuck them in a middle ground of trying to sell .500 as a success while also not putting them in a better spot for 2027 and beyond. I think they have enough between MLB and AAA that a few offseason adds could have put them in a really good spot for 2027 even without Ryan and/or Pablo and Jeffers. But I think they've pushed the window back by trying to win this year. I'm not worried as much about getting guys back in any of these deals that can help immediately. I just want ceiling. If they aren't here til 2028, that's totally fine with me. The window should be opening in 2027, but it's not a 1 year window. They're setting themselves up for a possible 1 year window by not moving Ryan and Lopez, but that sort of decision would likely come with a lessened chance at truly opening the window beyond that.

I don't care about 2026 at all. This team isn't good enough. And they've moved the transition year to next year, so I'm less interested in opening day 2027 performance than I am with 2nd half 2027 performance. So I'll take the highest ceiling guys I can get that can be part of a window starting late 2027 and moving forward. The sustainable part of winning is important, too. And grabbing guys that debut a year or 2 after the current wave helps with that.

Good points.  Hard to argue with that. I too feel like if the Twins do finally complete the tear down trades that 2028 looks pretty promising for them to truly compete for a long time.  So that does make your scenario more appealing than mine where I am trying to balance things more. I guess I still believe that even if they make those big trades at the deadline this team can still compete to a degree.  

To your point though if we are playing for 2028 both Caminiti and Hartman should be ready or close to it by then so highest talent wins out.  Still hoping to beef up the arms though as they break down at fairly high rates and are hard to find.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Good points.  Hard to argue with that. I too feel like if the Twins do finally complete the tear down trades that 2028 looks pretty promising for them to truly compete for a long time.  So that does make your scenario more appealing than mine where I am trying to balance things more. I guess I still believe that even if they make those big trades at the deadline this team can still compete to a degree.  

To your point though if we are playing for 2028 both Caminiti and Hartman should be ready or close to it by then so highest talent wins out.  Still hoping to beef up the arms though as they break down at fairly high rates and are hard to find.

Oh, I'm always happy to get more arms. Never enough. I just think it's harder to get multiple top level arms in a deal than an arm and a bat. Every team wants more pitching. Even the Dodgers, and they have like 37 Cy Young candidates (slight exaggeration, maybe). If the Twins can get a deal for 2 top 100 arms, I'd be all for it.

[ashbury]

22 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Haha, I understand the sarcasm, but Hartman is probably the best CFer we'd have if they got him. He's a faster and a better defender than Jenkins or Emma or any of those other guys. He'd probably be our #3 or 4 prospect depending on how people view him vs Culpepper. I don't care if we have 1000 lefty outfielders if he's better than 997 of them. Just get me more talent.

Dman posted at about the same moment I did, and expressed why I am not completely sold on Hartman as a CF long term.  I agree that if he can stick in CF then he's not just another Alan Roden,.  And, bigger picture, I'm not super hung up on who we get in return for the players we want to trade away - because I view the coming 8 months as an opportunity to wheel-and-deal - obtain trade chips that other teams will consider valuable, and then use them to make some splashy trades in the off-season.

[HeresWaldo]

I suspect all of these headliner prospects are out of reach and I'd much rather just keep Ryan. If you can talk the Mariners into trading Anderson by all means do it but I seriously doubt they're that stupid. If they wanted a starter they could just call him up.

The Athletic correctly pointed out that a decent comp for Joe Ryan right now is the Jose Berrios trade. Joe Ryan is a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.42 ERA season and carrying a 3.38 ERA into the trade deadline as of this moment. He's been worth 6.6 bWAR in the past season and a half. Berrios was a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.52 ERA season and carrying a 3.48 first half ERA into the trade deadline. He'd been worth 5.3 bWAR in the season and a half leading up to the trade. So maybe Ryan is a bit better, but Ryan also famously fades in the second half which could be a factor. 

I know it's fun to dream on robbing other farm systems, but just as a hypothetical, how many people would still want to trade Ryan if the fair return for him is Austin Martin and SWR? If the return is going to be a new 5th or 6th best prospect in the Twins system do we really want to lose a great player?

 

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, HeresWaldo said:

I suspect all of these headliner prospects are out of reach and I'd much rather just keep Ryan. If you can talk the Mariners into trading Anderson by all means do it but I seriously doubt they're that stupid. If they wanted a starter they could just call him up.

The Athletic correctly pointed out that a decent comp for Joe Ryan right now is the Jose Berrios trade. Joe Ryan is a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.42 ERA season and carrying a 3.38 ERA into the trade deadline as of this moment. He's been worth 6.6 bWAR in the past season and a half. Berrios was a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.52 ERA season and carrying a 3.48 first half ERA into the trade deadline. He'd been worth 5.3 bWAR in the season and a half leading up to the trade. So maybe Ryan is a bit better, but Ryan also famously fades in the second half which could be a factor. 

I know it's fun to dream on robbing other farm systems, but just as a hypothetical, how many people would still want to trade Ryan if the fair return for him is Austin Martin and SWR? If the return is going to be a new 5th or 6th best prospect in the Twins system do we really want to lose a great player?

 

I mean, if we know the prospects won't turn out ahead of time, of course we aren't making the trade. I'm not sure your point?

Every decision involves risk, the question is, knowing what you know now about this year and next, and beyond, what to do. Ryan could get hurt. He could return another Ryan who pitches in Minnesota for five or more years? 

[Scott51104]

" The Yankees package is cool but I'm not trading any of our best players to a rival "

I wonder if the Yankees realize this rivalry exists?

[TheLeviathan]

I don't so much mind the suggestions, but the teams listed here don't seem like the ones who will be shopping for starting pitching.  I find it more like the Cubs, Braves, and Red Sox should be on this list with the Padres.  I can maybe squeeze a look at the Dodgers and Yankees just for being the gorillas in the room but WTF is Seattle doing on it?

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't so much mind the suggestions, but the teams listed here don't seem like the ones who will be shopping for starting pitching.  I find it more like the Cubs, Braves, and Red Sox should be on this list with the Padres.  I can maybe squeeze a look at the Dodgers and Yankees just for being the gorillas in the room but WTF is Seattle doing on it?

Ya. Zero, zero, zero, chance Seattle is lining for pitching. They might trade it away! Mind. Boggling. 

[MGX]

I'm guessing this is unlikely, but here is a trade option for Joe Ryan that might work for everyone whether you think we should be buyers or sellers. Tom stated he wanted to be competitive...

Assuming Baltimore ends up as sellers, which I think they will be. Trade Ryan for Trevor Rogers & a couple of good prospects.

Why the Twins might do this 
1. Joe Ryan isn't likely to sign a long term contract here
2. We're in the 2nd half of the season where Ryan has consistently faded
3. Trevor Rogers is on an expiring contract & I would guess viewed by most as less valuable than Ryan. This hopefully means we can still get a couple of valued prospects in the deal
4. Trevor Rogers is more likely to fit the Twins budget (thinking 4 years 60-70 million)should we want to offer an extension.
5. While Rogers stats look middling for 2026, he's been awesome in June & July & has been a better 2nd half pitcher during his career.

Why the O's might do his
1. They could sign Ryan long term
2. Joe moves to the top of their rotation

Alright let the unrealistic comments begin, lol
 

 

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, MGX said:

I'm guessing this is unlikely, but here is a trade option for Joe Ryan that might work for everyone whether you think we should be buyers or sellers. Tom stated he wanted to be competitive...

Assuming Baltimore ends up as sellers, which I think they will be. Trade Ryan for Trevor Rogers & a couple of good prospects.

Why the Twins might do this 
1. Joe Ryan isn't likely to sign a long term contract here
2. We're in the 2nd half of the season where Ryan has consistently faded
3. Trevor Rogers is on an expiring contract & I would guess viewed by most as less valuable than Ryan. This hopefully means we can still get a couple of valued prospects in the deal
4. Trevor Rogers is more likely to fit the Twins budget (thinking 4 years 60-70 million)should we want to offer an extension.
5. While Rogers stats look middling for 2026, he's been awesome in June & July & has been a better 2nd half pitcher during his career.

Why the O's might do his
1. They could sign Ryan long term
2. Joe moves to the top of their rotation

Alright let the unrealistic comments begin, lol
 

 

They'd have to be great prospects, not good ones, for this to work. 

[chpettit19]

28 minutes ago, HeresWaldo said:

I suspect all of these headliner prospects are out of reach and I'd much rather just keep Ryan. If you can talk the Mariners into trading Anderson by all means do it but I seriously doubt they're that stupid. If they wanted a starter they could just call him up.

The Athletic correctly pointed out that a decent comp for Joe Ryan right now is the Jose Berrios trade. Joe Ryan is a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.42 ERA season and carrying a 3.38 ERA into the trade deadline as of this moment. He's been worth 6.6 bWAR in the past season and a half. Berrios was a 2 time All Star with 1.5 years team control remaining coming off a 3.52 ERA season and carrying a 3.48 first half ERA into the trade deadline. He'd been worth 5.3 bWAR in the season and a half leading up to the trade. So maybe Ryan is a bit better, but Ryan also famously fades in the second half which could be a factor. 

I know it's fun to dream on robbing other farm systems, but just as a hypothetical, how many people would still want to trade Ryan if the fair return for him is Austin Martin and SWR? If the return is going to be a new 5th or 6th best prospect in the Twins system do we really want to lose a great player?

 

2 top 100 prospects? Yes, I'd still want to trade Ryan if the return is 2 top 100 prospects. 

The Twins are going to lose that great player anyway. The question isn't whether or not people would rather have Joe Ryan than 2 unknowns, it's whether they'd rather have the unknowns or nothing after the team goes 3 straight years under .500 while having the 4th one be 1 game over .500.

[ashbury]

37 minutes ago, HeresWaldo said:

I suspect all of these headliner prospects are out of reach and I'd much rather just keep Ryan. If you can talk the Mariners into trading Anderson by all means do it but I seriously doubt they're that stupid. If they wanted a starter they could just call him up.

The comparison to Berrios may be apt. And, like you, I expect that Anderson is not available for any conceivable trade package (the OOTP AI certainly doesn't lead me to believe he would be). 

But, there is no rule that says we must do like we did with Berrios and receive two prospects in return.  What if the Twins were the team offering the package?  Maybe a slightly lower pitching prospect like Ryan Sloan could be attainable, if Joe Ryan were the headliner and a significant prospect was included as well?  I don't know what it would take - Ryan plus Emma Rodriguez, in return for Sloan plus a lesser piece?

We have so many outfielders seemingly coming of age at around the same time.  There isn't room in one major league outfield for all of them.  I refuse to believe we can't make use of some of them to swing a really interesting deal.  No, we can't simply trade 5 corner outfield bats for one good pitcher, but one trade at a time seems like we could upgrade our ceilings.

Like I keep cautioning myself, I have probably played too many hours of OOTP during the past 20 years.

 

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, MGX said:

I'm guessing this is unlikely, but here is a trade option for Joe Ryan that might work for everyone whether you think we should be buyers or sellers. Tom stated he wanted to be competitive...

Assuming Baltimore ends up as sellers, which I think they will be. Trade Ryan for Trevor Rogers & a couple of good prospects.

Why the Twins might do this 
1. Joe Ryan isn't likely to sign a long term contract here
2. We're in the 2nd half of the season where Ryan has consistently faded
3. Trevor Rogers is on an expiring contract & I would guess viewed by most as less valuable than Ryan. This hopefully means we can still get a couple of valued prospects in the deal
4. Trevor Rogers is more likely to fit the Twins budget (thinking 4 years 60-70 million)should we want to offer an extension.
5. While Rogers stats look middling for 2026, he's been awesome in June & July & has been a better 2nd half pitcher during his career.

Why the O's might do his
1. They could sign Ryan long term
2. Joe moves to the top of their rotation

Alright let the unrealistic comments begin, lol
 

 

Could I see Pohlad finding this sort of idea intriguing as he continues to point at .500 as some sort of success? Sure. But I don't see the value in bringing back Rogers at all. Why not just offer him that deal in the offseason while getting better prospects in return in the trade? Have my cake and eat it, too.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

The comparison to Berrios may be apt. And, like you, I expect that Anderson is not available for any conceivable trade package (the OOTP AI certainly doesn't lead me to believe he would be). 

But, there is no rule that says we must do like we did with Berrios and receive two prospects in return.  What if the Twins were the team offering the package?  Maybe a slightly lower pitching prospect like Ryan Sloan could be attainable, if Joe Ryan were the headliner and a significant prospect was included as well?  I don't know what it would take - Ryan plus Emma Rodriguez, in return for Sloan plus a lesser piece?

We have so many outfielders seemingly coming of age at around the same time.  There isn't room in one major league outfield for all of them.  I just can't believe we can't make use of some of them to swing a really interesting deal.  No, we can't simply trade 5 corner outfield bats for one good pitcher, but one trade at a time seems like we could upgrade our ceilings.

Like I keep cautioning myself, I have probably played too many hours of OOTP during the past 20 years.

 

If the Twins are willing to get wild and wheel and deal this deadline, it could be very interesting. I don't find it likely, but I don't think it's outrageous. I still think going and getting Hancock with a package built around Jeffers is incredibly interesting. Put Emma with him if that's what Seattle wants. To me, that then opens up a trade of Ryan elsewhere with Hancock taking his spot in the rotation (I mean literally pitching on the days Ryan would have, not as any statement on skill level). Whether it's my Atlanta idea or something else. If I can get 2 top 100 prospects and Emerson Hancock for Ryan, Jeffers, and a prospect, I'm thrilled.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

The comparison to Berrios may be apt. And, like you, I expect that Anderson is not available for any conceivable trade package (the OOTP AI certainly doesn't lead me to believe he would be). 

But, there is no rule that says we must do like we did with Berrios and receive two prospects in return.  What if the Twins were the team offering the package?  Maybe a slightly lower pitching prospect like Ryan Sloan could be attainable, if Joe Ryan were the headliner and a significant prospect was included as well?  I don't know what it would take - Ryan plus Emma Rodriguez, in return for Sloan plus a lesser piece?

We have so many outfielders seemingly coming of age at around the same time.  There isn't room in one major league outfield for all of them.  I just can't believe we can't make use of some of them to swing a really interesting deal.  No, we can't simply trade 5 corner outfield bats for one good pitcher, but one trade at a time seems like we could upgrade our ceilings.

Like I keep cautioning myself, I have probably played too many hours of OOTP during the past 20 years.

 

Sloan is number ten overall for fangraphs..... I'd be shocked if the Twins could get him. 

Jeffers, any OF prospect not named Jenkins or Tait, and Quick or Hill or Soto? Maybe that does it? 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If the Twins are willing to get wild and wheel and deal this deadline, it could be very interesting. I don't find it likely, but I don't think it's outrageous. I still think going and getting Hancock with a package built around Jeffers is incredibly interesting. Put Emma with him if that's what Seattle wants. To me, that then opens up a trade of Ryan elsewhere with Hancock taking his spot in the rotation (I mean literally pitching on the days Ryan would have, not as any statement on skill level). Whether it's my Atlanta idea or something else. If I can get 2 top 100 prospects and Emerson Hancock for Ryan, Jeffers, and a prospect, I'm thrilled.

I'd give Zoll a five year deal if he pulled that off. 

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

If the Twins are willing to get wild and wheel and deal this deadline, it could be very interesting. I don't find it likely, but I don't think it's outrageous. I still think going and getting Hancock with a package built around Jeffers is incredibly interesting. Put Emma with him if that's what Seattle wants. To me, that then opens up a trade of Ryan elsewhere with Hancock taking his spot in the rotation (I mean literally pitching on the days Ryan would have, not as any statement on skill level). Whether it's my Atlanta idea or something else. If I can get 2 top 100 prospects and Emerson Hancock for Ryan, Jeffers, and a prospect, I'm thrilled.

Basically, if every trade is a "win" in terms of raising the ceiling (and again, this is the OOTP player talking), then I almost don't care if the individual trades are pitcher-for-pitcher, pitcher-for-batter, etc.  The sequence is unimportant.  What the farm system and 40-man look like next February is the metric.

But again, I expect real-world GMs are ALL looking to pull off trades where "I give you 10 chickens and you give me one horse."  That's a flaw in OOTP's AI trade mechanism that I exploit to a fault because I play for fun.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd give Zoll a five year deal if he pulled that off. 

I'll do you 1 better, I would give our new Pohlad overlord another year before complaining about him being terrible.

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sloan is number ten overall for fangraphs..... I'd be shocked if the Twins could get him. 

Jeffers, any OF prospect not named Jenkins or Tait, and Quick or Hill or Soto? Maybe that does it? 

I think I needed another comma....Tait or an OF not named Jenkins.

But in looking, that's an overpay for Minnesota. Jeffers, Tait, and an ok prospect is likely enough? 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Basically, if every trade is a "win" in terms of raising the ceiling (and again, this is the OOTP player talking), then I almost don't care if the individual trades are pitcher-for-pitcher, pitcher-for-batter, etc.  The sequence is unimportant.  What the farm system and 40-man look like next February is the metric.

But again, I expect real-world GMs are ALL looking to pull off trades where "I give you 10 chickens and you give me one horse."  That's a flaw in OOTP's AI trade mechanism that I exploit to a fault because I play for fun.

It is definitely easier to make trades on the internet or in games. But I actually think it's a realistic possibility to pull something like that off. Not in terms of likelihood, but in terms of there being a path to moving pieces in such a way that you don't look like you blew up the now while also boosting your odds in the future.

To me, the Hancock thing is incredibly intriguing. Jeffers is likely to be one of the better right handed bats on the market. Especially now that Boston has gone nuclear and Contreras is less likely to be dealt. Suzuki, Paredes, and Jeffers are probably your top 3 righty bats from the rumors I've seen of who may be available. That should make there a very real conversation to be had with the Mariners. If you can get Hancock, it really opens the doors to a wide variety of moves that don't sacrifice 2027 but help build beyond that. I'd be blowing up Dipoto's phone if I were Zoll.