The Twins Can't Wait Any Longer to Bring Back Royce Lewis

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, Wedman13 said:

This and the post below it are really good.  Gives a lot to think about in terms of the underlying stats.  The only thing I'd counter with, is confidence matters too.  I know that can't be measured, but Royce and MW 'seem' to be fragile guys where a little success (or failure) can matter.  Either with coming back up, or as a marketable trade asset, sadly, this may be the peak.  Only concern would be leaving them at AAA until they fail, then have little value for us, or others.  But again, you guys laid this argument out in an insightful way I would not have thought to do.  Thanks!

Confidence definitely matters. But, to me, that's another reason to not call him up until he's actually made some adjustments. If he hasn't made adjustments, I don't care how confident he is, MLB pitchers will continue to expose him and that may destroy his confidence forever.

[mickster]

1 hour ago, Rosterman said:

Then we should be buying light rail tickets for Culpepper replacing everyone at shortstop, Fedko learning Clemens' job, and Mendez taking the outfield corner and moving Martin to Outman's position, as well as Sabato playing 1st base instead of Bell... while Lewis searches for a spot on the field! Lewis as DH?

Lewis, Culpepper, Mendez, Sabato and Fedko all up???? Who leaves?  Outman, Bell, and who......can't send all three of Arcia, Gray and Kreideler out.   

[mickster]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm content to wait for a necessity (injury) to bring him back. We don't have decent minor league depth on the dirt. Royce is probably it. 

I don't expect the Twins front office to just cut or send down Kriedler, Gray or Arcia to make room for Lewis because we don't have major league ready AAA depth at 2B, 3B, SS or 1B.

I don't expect a hot streak from Lewis to cause a 26 man change to make room for him. I think this is an opportunity to get Lewis some work on the right side of the infield so he can slide into whatever hole opens up when an injury occurs and injury is going to occur at some point.

Because we don't have anybody else when that injury occurs. Schobel? Ross? Sabato maybe if he keeps hitting the ball... Otherwise... just look at the options. It's Lewis... he's the next man up. We can allow Lewis to work on things until we need the next man and that time is coming fast. Bank on it.  

Yeah... Culpepper. I know... Culpepper. He doesn't need to added to the 40 man roster until Dec 27. We have a potential lockout in 2027 that could burn his valuable service time while he is on the 40 man playing golf waiting for baseball and the players union to allow him to play.   

Lewis is the next man up. If Keaschall gets hurt, If Bell gets hurt, If Clemens gets hurt, If Kreidler gets hurt, If Lee gets hurt, If Gray gets hurt, If Arcia gets hurt. He's the next man up for the entire infield. Wherever that injury occurs that makes him necessary.

Brooks Lee is playing 3B now. Lewis has to get defensively prepared for any possibility so he gets that phone call that's coming. 

I would be just fine with Lewis up and Bell DFA'd for now.   AGree that Culpepper can wait until next year

[Coach Wheels]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Twins Fan said:

If they are seriously planning on turning Lewis into a first baseman, then he definitely needs more time in AAA to work on fielding that position. 

https://youtu.be/GzTsGdY_vFo?si=54A1vEi4rbGLq_uE

[jkcarew]

The notion that Lewis…a good athlete, with tons of experience at SS and 3B…can’t immediately play first base, is strange IMO. You see his type thrown over there all the time. And for THIS team?? In THIS season?? Absolutely no reason not to try it.

Of course, it only makes you better if he hits.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

So if he gets middle in pitches, should be take them and wait for one he should drive the other way? I'm not sure what he can do hitting wise at this point in AAA, the pitchers just aren't good enough. 

Why do you assume he's getting middle in pitches? He can have a different approach even at AAA. He's still chasing over 30% of the pitches he sees out of the zone. He's still swinging at just below 70% of the pitches he sees in the zone. Still swinging about 50% of the time at all pitches. The difference? He's making contact FAR more often. Because the pitches aren't as good. But if he's still being fooled and chasing pitches at the same rate despite the pitches not being as good, how does that help him when he gets back to facing the better pitches?

He's seeing 3% more pitches in the zone than he was in the majors. So, 3 more out of every 100 pitches he sees is in the zone in the minors. But he's still chasing the same amount. He's still having 15% of the pitches he sees be called strikes. He just isn't swinging and missing as much and is making better contact against insufficient pitches. His challenge, to save his career, is to stop chasing the numbers on the back of his AAA baseball card and start chasing the adjustments that need to be made to improve the numbers on the back of his MLB baseball card. 

He can lay off pitches out of the zone. The idea that he is just getting middle in pitches and the pitchers aren't fooling him or he's not having full at bats where he has to lay off pitches ever is not reality. He's not having good at bats. The pitches not being as effective at AAA should make it easier for him to lay off pitches out of the zone. But he isn't doing it. He hasn't changed his approach at all. And he can do that against AAA pitching. He's either choosing not to or isn't capable of it. Either way, he hasn't fixed the problems that stop him from hitting MLB pitching.

[DJL44]

19 minutes ago, mickster said:

I would be just fine with Lewis up and Bell DFA'd for now.   AGree that Culpepper can wait until next year

Bell runs hot and cold and he has an 835 OPS over the last week. 

DFA Arcia, option Kreidler. Call up Lewis and Culpepper. Arcia will end up back in St Paul.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, mickster said:

I would be just fine with Lewis up and Bell DFA'd for now.   AGree that Culpepper can wait until next year

I get it. I wasn't a big fan of spending our limited resources on Bell. 

But... the Twins went and spent 7 million on Josh and he has some major league track record that he was supposed to provide therefore justifying the 7 million dollar expense as the team continues to try and go for it. And technically... Isn't out of contention despite our lack of confidence. 

That's one thing but the bigger problem... is the current infield depth. If you make that move... Lewis goes from the only option to nobody being a sensible option on the infield when an injury occurs and an injury is going to occur.    

When that happens... and it will. I doubt the Twins call up Ben Ross. They will go searching that waiver wire and bring in a Jonah Bride or Dylan Moore type guy. 

If the Twins were to release Bell and eat the remaining dollars of that 7 million. It better be the start of youth flowing into the clubhouse at 1 Twins Way shortly afterwards. Ryan needs to be traded for prospects, Jeffers traded for prospects. Larnach and Ober will probably need to be moved for prospects.  

[Twins GFP]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Off topic so I apologize. 

However... the mention of Gasper is an opportunity to point out that Mickey is currently the primary catching option in Boston despite the presence of two other catchers on the 26 man roster. 

In the past 9 games... Gasper has caught 5 of them. Narvaez 3 and Wong 1.

Gasper appears to be the guy behind the plate against right handed pitching. How long will that last... I have no idea but after 19 Games... 65 Plate Appearances. Mickey has an OBP of .375 and .414 slug.

His OPS is currently 2nd on the Red Sox. Small Sample obviously but the sample is growing and there he is behind Contreras and ahead of Abreu and Duran and Roman Anthony and Story and... and... and... and. 

Not saying I wish Gasper was here but I am saying... he's getting opportunity and so far... doing something with it. 

And... one more thing. Jovani Moran. The Bullpen guy we traded for Gasper. He has 30 innings tossed so far out of the Red Sox bullpen. His WHIP 0.87 with 32 Punch outs. 

The Red Sox have officially won the Gasper trade. 

 

 

 

Not looking to pick a fight, just balancing the scale:
1) The daily outcry on this site with Gasper on the roster should not be forgotten
2) The outcry was earned as he carried an OPS+ of 39 in MN
3) Moran has been a typical RP to date... to paraphrase a quote on Minnesota weather: If you don't like a relief pitcher, wait 10 minutes. Don't forget his 5.74 ERA his last season in MN

For their sakes, I wish them success. From a Minnesota POV:  eh. 

[bean5302]

52 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

The notion that Lewis…a good athlete, with tons of experience at SS and 3B…can’t immediately play first base, is strange IMO. You see his type thrown over there all the time. And for THIS team?? In THIS season?? Absolutely no reason not to try it.

Of course, it only makes you better if he hits.

Can Lewis catch a ball? Yes
Can Lewis step on a bag? Yes

Does Lewis instinctively know where to position himself? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know when to scoop, when to block, when to come off the bag? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know when/how to hold a runner at 1B? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know what his role is backing up other fielders? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know the sequence of fielding? No.

It's not a question of catching a baseball and stepping on a base for a force out. It's the repetition of different actions and sequences which are not committed to memory which will make Lewis a bad 1B. Positional flexibility is a joke. There's a reason the Twins suck at defense (which is spelled correctly there despite the red squiggly line under the word). They don't develop it. 

Players making transitions to new positions have made comments about learning a new positions, especially in the infield, repeatedly over the years. It's hard.

Aside from that, Lewis is a better fielder than Brooks Lee, IMHO. 1B is a position where you put bad fielders with big bats.

[Twins GFP]

1 hour ago, Coach Wheels said:

https://youtu.be/GzTsGdY_vFo?si=54A1vEi4rbGLq_uE

I knew that one was coming, but I was thinking of this one:

https://youtu.be/bn08vlj7mYU?t=1408

 

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Can Lewis catch a ball? Yes
Can Lewis step on a bag? Yes

Does Lewis instinctively know where to position himself? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know when to scoop, when to block, when to come off the bag? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know when/how to hold a runner at 1B? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know what his role is backing up other fielders? No.
Does Lewis instinctively know the sequence of fielding? No.

It's not a question of catching a baseball and stepping on a base for a force out. It's the repetition of different actions and sequences which are not committed to memory which will make Lewis a bad 1B. Positional flexibility is a joke. There's a reason the Twins suck at defense (which is spelled correctly there despite the red squiggly line under the word). They don't develop it. 

Players making transitions to new positions have made comments about learning a new positions, especially in the infield, repeatedly over the years. It's hard.

Aside from that, Lewis is a better fielder than Brooks Lee, IMHO. 1B is a position where you put bad fielders with big bats.

Royce Lewis has been a professional baseball player since he was 18 years old. He's now 27. If he hasn't picked up where the 1B goes for backing up fielders or cuts or anything like that by now, he's never going to figure it out. He's been on a professional baseball field thousands of times. If he doesn't pay enough attention, especially as a SS, to know where everybody goes on the field, that's on him and is a major flaw in a wanna be leader. You don't think Correa can tell you where every player on the field is supposed to be on every play? He's never played 1B, but I'll bet my life's savings he knows exactly where the 1B should be on every play.

Every team moves guys around every year and they don't all suck at defense. The Twins suck at defense because they have a bunch of guys who don't have the skills to play MLB level defense. Tatis Jr moved from SS to CF/RF as a 22-year-old with no minor league experience and won the gold glove in his next season. Jackson Merrill had never played a game of CF before he showed up in spring training as a 20-year-old and debuted at that position on opening day. And played it well. Luis Gonzalez never played an inning of baseball in the grass until he was a rookie in the majors and they moved him to LF from 1B/3B. Mookie Betts moved to the OF when he was about to debut because the Red Sox had an MVP at 2B. Xander Bogaerts had never played an inning of professional baseball at 2B until he got to San Diego as a 31-year-old and they moved him there. Marcus Semien has 2 gold gloves despite playing 2B, SS, 3B, and LF in the minors. Paul Molitor played SS, 2B, 3B, CF, RF, LF, and 1B in the majors. Wait, that's every non-catching or pitching position there is, right? And he turned out alright. Manny Machado won a gold glove his first full season. At 3B. A position he played 18 innings of in the minors before he debuted in the majors at it.

The joke is pretending that asking professional baseball players to play other positions has a significant impact on anything. Ozzie Smith could've slid to 2B or 3B and still been a wizard with the glove. Julien's inability to field 2B is because he lacks the feet and hands to field that, or any, position. Not because it wasn't the only position he played in the minors. Bryce Harper grew up a catcher, switched to RF in the pros, and then to 1B after an injury. He's been a solid fielder in both right and first. Bo Bichette is bad at SS, 3B, and 2B. Because he's a bad fielder, not because they moved him from SS to another position. ARod was a good fielder at both SS and 3B. He didn't fall apart because he didn't know the intricacies of 3B when he went to the Yankees. Jorge Polanco has played all over and that wasn't why he wasn't/isn't a great fielder. It's because he doesn't have all the skills needed to be a great fielder. 

[amjgt]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

What adjustments has he made?

"the Twins needed to know that the changes were real."

What changes were made and why should the Twins believe they're real? There was never any doubt Royce Lewis is too good for AAA pitching. Him destroying AAA pitching doesn't prove he's made any adjustments or changes. You don't present any information on what changes or adjustments were made or why anyone should believe they're "real." 

Royce's walk rate is 5.2% in AAA compared to the 10.1% he had in the majors this year. He hasn't started laying off pitches and taking good at bats. His oppo% is down to 11.9% in AAA compared to the 14.7% he had in the majors this year. He hasn't started going the other way with pitches. His swing percentage overall has gone up to 51% from the 48.6% it was in the bigs. His O-Swing% (out of zone pitches he swings at) has gone up an insignificant amount from 32.8 to 33%.  Again, he hasn't stopped chasing pitches. He's simply making more, and better, contact against inferior pitching.

So, I ask again, what adjustments has he made and why should the Twins think they're real? Because it's pretty easy to look at his swing decision and approach numbers and see he hasn't changed anything. He's simply destroying inferior pitching. Why should we believe he's "fixed" and he wouldn't continue to struggle with his swing at everything, pull everything approach in the majors again when he hasn't changed that approach one bit? 

Without agreeing or disagreeing with what it seems your takeaway is of all of the numbers you've shown, a large (immeasurable) part of an athlete's performance in just about any sport is confidence. 

If you lack it, you're sunk. If you've got it, then often it leads to even more of it. 

We've seen what low-confidence Royce (and low confidence Wallner) do at the major league level. They struggle. And they struggle in ways beyond how "normal" players struggle. 

We've also seen what the confident versions of each of those players can do. Right now they seem confident. I want that. This lineup needs that. If they get called up today. will we get that? No idea. But I'm fine with whatever the results are. The good version is fun and successful. The bad version means a trip back to St Paul and/or to another team. I'm to the point with these two players where I'm fine with that binary. 

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, amjgt said:

Without agreeing or disagreeing with what it seems your takeaway is of all of the numbers you've shown, a large (immeasurable) part of an athlete's performance in just about any sport is confidence. 

If you lack it, you're sunk. If you've got it, then often it leads to even more of it. 

We've seen what low-confidence Royce (and low confidence Wallner) do at the major league level. They struggle. And they struggle in ways beyond how "normal" players struggle. 

We've also seen what the confident versions of each of those players can do. Right now they seem confident. I want that. This lineup needs that. If they get called up today. will we get that? No idea. But I'm fine with whatever the results are. The good version is fun and successful. The bad version means a trip back to St Paul and/or to another team. I'm to the point with these two players where I'm fine with that binary. 

You are the 3rd person to respond with "confidence matters, too" to me on this. And I'll give you the same answer I gave the other 2...that's all the more reason to not call him up until he's made real adjustments. Major League pitchers don't care about Royce's confidence. They will continue to throw him away while he tries to yank everything and out of the zone while he continues to chase everything. And he'll fail. Again. What does that do to his confidence? I'd say it raises the chances his confidence is completely blown and then his career with the Twins is over.

I am not fine with "well he hasn't adjusted at all, but he's confident so let's just put him back up there even though we know his flaws are still there and the 90% chance is that he fails again and we can then DFA him." If your intention is not to have him truly fix his flaws, then let him mash AAA for another week or 2 and trade him for whatever you can get.

[amjgt]

I'm a "respond to a post when I see it" guy, so I didn't make it through the whole thread before responding. 
Hopefully my version at least had the best grammar of the 3.

[purplesoldier4u]

Lewis and Fedko! More RH bats ... please!

[Major League Ready]

I think the better short-term solution at 1B is to let Clemmons play there full-time.  He has simply been much better than Lewis offensively and I doubt Lewis could match him defensively.  I think of Clemmons as a good bench player because of his versatility and what has basically been an average bat.  However, after a weak first month, OPS is .863 since the last week in April.  Why do we want to insist Clemmons can't grow into a well-above average player.  He has been for the past 6 weeks.  If he is just average over the next 6 weeks, go grab whoever is the hottest between Mendez / Sabato / Gonzalez, or Fedko.

Of course, you could also DFA Bell and bring up one of these guys right now. 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, mickster said:

I would be just fine with Lewis up and Bell DFA'd for now.   AGree that Culpepper can wait until next year

You can thumbs down my response. I can't stop you from doing that but I'm not sure what specifically you are thumbs downing. 

I get that you would DFA Bell and give Lewis the 26 man spot. That move in itself is fine with me because Bell won't be back next year and I wasn't a fan of spending 7 million on him in the first place.

However, I'd recommend that you sit down for dinner with Pohlad and Zoll at Murray's and convince them to eat what's left of his contract. They won't do it and they will probably make you pay for the dinner. At least the steak will be pretty good as you leave the restaurant dejected and $500 bucks lighter if they don't bring their wives with. 😄   

Our infield depth is non-existent. 

   

 

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You can thumbs down my response. I can't stop you from doing that but I'm not sure what specifically you are thumbs downing. 

I get that you would DFA Bell and give Lewis the 26 man spot. That move in itself is fine with me because Bell won't be back next year and I wasn't a fan of spending 7 million on him in the first place.

However, I'd recommend that you sit down for dinner with Pohlad and Zoll at Murray's and convince them to eat what's left of his contract. They won't do it and they will probably make you pay for the dinner. At least the steak will be pretty good as you leave the restaurant dejected and $500 bucks lighter if they don't bring their wives with. 😄   

Our infield depth is non-existent. 

   

 

They pay him either way, and adding a guy is less than a million. Not even they are that cheap.... Ok, maybe they are. Sigh..

I'm all in on giving one of the AAA hours a chance at DH....

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

Not looking to pick a fight, just balancing the scale:
1) The daily outcry on this site with Gasper on the roster should not be forgotten
2) The outcry was earned as he carried an OPS+ of 39 in MN
3) Moran has been a typical RP to date... to paraphrase a quote on Minnesota weather: If you don't like a relief pitcher, wait 10 minutes. Don't forget his 5.74 ERA his last season in MN

For their sakes, I wish them success. From a Minnesota POV:  eh. 

Balance is a good thing. No fight necessary. 

I wasn't advocating the return nor lamenting the loss of Gasper. Just pointing out that he's getting opportunity and taking advantage... as is Moran. 

 

 

[Linus]

36 minutes ago, amjgt said:

I'm a "respond to a post when I see it" guy, so I didn't make it through the whole thread before responding. 
Hopefully my version at least had the best grammar of the 3.

If the number is less than 10 you are supposed to spell it in a sentence so you didn’t win on grammar points either 😀. (Having fun here). 

[Riverbrian]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

They pay him either way, and adding a guy is less than a million. Not even they are that cheap.... Ok, maybe they are. Sigh..

I'm all in on giving one of the AAA hours a chance at DH....

As you know... I wouldn't have gone the direction they went in the off-season. I've said it multiple times. I know you wouldn't have either because you have said it multiple times. 

However... I would be more disappointed in the front office if they just abruptly changed course.

They cant' go for it and change their mind with 98 games to play just 3 games out of a wild card spot. 

That would probably be the scariest, most unstable, untrustworthy thing that a front office could possibly do.

I can live with bad decisions but I can't live that incredible degree of wishy washy courage of your convictions.   

 

[amjgt]

4 minutes ago, Linus said:

If the number is less than 10 you are supposed to spell it in a sentence so you didn’t win on grammar points either 😀. (Having fun here). 

Oof. You're right. 
I might need a Royce Lewis-eqsue reset. If you need me I'll be here: https://twinsdaily.com/forums/forum/9-twins-minor-league-talk/

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

As you know... I wouldn't have gone the direction they went in the off-season. I've said it multiple times. I know you wouldn't have either because you have said it multiple times. 

However... I would be more disappointed in the front office if they just abruptly changed course.

They cant' go for it and change their mind with 98 games to play just 3 games out of a wild card spot. 

That would probably be the scariest, most unstable, untrustworthy thing that a front office could possibly do.

I can live with bad decisions but I can't live that incredible degree of wishy washy courage of your convictions.   

 

Fair. I'd prefer to think about it at them getting smarter and changing their mind with more information and the performance of Wallner, Lewis and Bell.... Not to mention the SP injury situation, but I get your point!

[karcherd]

48 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

As you know... I wouldn't have gone the direction they went in the off-season. I've said it multiple times. I know you wouldn't have either because you have said it multiple times. 

However... I would be more disappointed in the front office if they just abruptly changed course.

They cant' go for it and change their mind with 98 games to play just 3 games out of a wild card spot. 

That would probably be the scariest, most unstable, untrustworthy thing that a front office could possibly do.

I can live with bad decisions but I can't live that incredible degree of wishy washy courage of your convictions.   

 

At what point do you make an honest assessment of your team and say yes  we may be 3 games back but we are also 6 games under .500.  Maybe changes do need to be made because we are relying on a number of one year guys and what gives you hope that we will make a true run and not possibly sneak into the playoffs, which I highly doubt will happen.  I get your point about thinking this would be an abrupt change, but I don't think it would be as abrupt as you do.  Use the injuries to the pitching staff  as an excuse if you want.  But they need to find out what will work for next year and future years.  Set the infield spots and let them play there the rest of the year and assess at the end of the year.  I don't want to wait until August.  I personally would play Lewis, Culpepper, and Keaschall from 3rd to 2nd.  Lee is the one who has shown he can play multiple spots in the infield.  You can get rotate those 4 guys and everyone should be able to play at least 5 days a week.  Part of that is freeing up DH spot and that means releasing Bell.  Give Sabato a shot at 1B, he can share time with Clemens who can be the late inning defensive replacement.  Give Fedko a shot, who know what you have until you bring him up here.  But this is not a contending team and at some point they need to look inward and make an honest assessment.  The White Sox were in the same position a few years ago at the all star break and traded away some of their top players because they didn't feel they were true contenders.  The other part of this is getting rid of Zoll and do an honest assessment of this organization from top to bottom.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair. I'd prefer to think about it at them getting smarter and changing their mind with more information and the performance of Wallner, Lewis and Bell.... Not to mention the SP injury situation, but I get your point!

That is also fair... Although, I'll still throw tomatoes at any front office that wasn't prepared for the possibility of what happened with Wallner, Lewis and Bell or any group of players in any given season because it happens in every given season.  

If they changed course this quickly because something that was bound to happen happened... that's not just a tomato thrown... that's La Tomatina that would need to occur at 1 Twins Way.   

 

[Riverbrian]

39 minutes ago, karcherd said:

At what point do you make an honest assessment of your team and say yes  we may be 3 games back but we are also 6 games under .500.  Maybe changes do need to be made because we are relying on a number of one year guys and what gives you hope that we will make a true run and not possibly sneak into the playoffs, which I highly doubt will happen.  I get your point about thinking this would be an abrupt change, but I don't think it would be as abrupt as you do.  Use the injuries to the pitching staff  as an excuse if you want.  But they need to find out what will work for next year and future years.  Set the infield spots and let them play there the rest of the year and assess at the end of the year.  I don't want to wait until August.  I personally would play Lewis, Culpepper, and Keaschall from 3rd to 2nd.  Lee is the one who has shown he can play multiple spots in the infield.  You can get rotate those 4 guys and everyone should be able to play at least 5 days a week.  Part of that is freeing up DH spot and that means releasing Bell.  Give Sabato a shot at 1B, he can share time with Clemens who can be the late inning defensive replacement.  Give Fedko a shot, who know what you have until you bring him up here.  But this is not a contending team and at some point they need to look inward and make an honest assessment.  The White Sox were in the same position a few years ago at the all star break and traded away some of their top players because they didn't feel they were true contenders.  The other part of this is getting rid of Zoll and do an honest assessment of this organization from top to bottom.

This honest assessment that you want them to make isn't ours. That's the problem. 

This off-season. Some folks on Twinsdaily would have torn it down to the studs. They would have traded Ryan, Jeffers, Lopez, Buxton, Larnach, Wallner and Ober for prospects and then they were expecting to draft #1 for a couple of years and come out of the darkness with a team that wins the world series in 2030.  

I wouldn't have gone that far. I would continued what was started at the deadline but I wouldn't have tossed everyone overboard. I would have cashed in the chips at peak value. Joe Ryan and Ryan Jeffers and made a commitment to youth with the return and what was in house. I would have tried to shore up SS and 1B with the best young players I could get for Joe Ryan and Ryan Jeffers and I didn't believe the rebuild would have taken that long.  

The problem... is the front office didn't see it the way I did or the way the others did. They had a different assessment and if that assessment only last's 64 games when they are still 3 games out of a wild card spot. 

That's a bigger problem than getting it wrong in the first place.

Baseball seasons are too rollercoastery to begin with. 

[karcherd]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

This honest assessment that you want them to make isn't ours. That's the problem. 

This off-season. Some folks on Twinsdaily would have torn it down to the studs. They would have traded Ryan, Jeffers, Lopez, Buxton, Larnach, Wallner and Ober for prospects and then they were expecting to draft #1 for a couple of years and come out of the darkness with a team that wins the world series in 2030.  

I wouldn't have gone that far. I would continued what was started at the deadline but I wouldn't have tossed everyone overboard. I would have cashed in the chips at peak value. Joe Ryan and Ryan Jeffers and made a commitment to youth with the return and what was in house. I would have tried to shore up SS and 1B because with the best young players I could find. 

The problem... is the front office didn't see it the way I did or the way the others did. They had a different assessment and if that assessment only last's 64 games when they are still 3 games out of a wild card spot. 

That's a bigger problem than getting it wrong in the first place.

Baseball seasons are too rollercoastery to begin with. 

The main decision maker that set the path for this season left right before spring training.  I realize Zoll was part of that team, but if he can't objectively look at the results then he definitely isn't the person for the job.  At a minimum there needs to be some kind of a plan and from a distance it sure is hard to see.  In all my years of following the Twins during good and bad times I have been able to at least see some plan whether I agreed to it or not.  They are playing their third shortstop in three days tonight, how many winning teams do that at that position unless it is because of injuries. They are wandering thru the desert right now with no real direction.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, karcherd said:

The main decision maker that set the path for this season left right before spring training.  I realize Zoll was part of that team, but if he can't objectively look at the results then he definitely isn't the person for the job.  At a minimum there needs to be some kind of a plan and from a distance it sure is hard to see.  In all my years of following the Twins during good and bad times I have been able to at least see some plan whether I agreed to it or not.  They are playing their third shortstop in three days tonight, how many winning teams do that at that position unless it is because of injuries. They are wandering thru the desert right now with no real direction.

I... like many others had a hard time seeing sensible plan going forward and my opinion hasn't changed much from my opinion in the off-season. 

However... I get that we have names in the lineup card that many don't feel comfortable with

But objectively... If the front office believed this team could contend and moved forward with that belief and planned with that belief. From a won loss standpoint. It's not White Towel time. 

The problem is that some of us... maybe even me included were waiving the white towel in the off-season and we haven't stopped waiving it.