Question of the week: grade the offseason

[Brock Beauchamp]

What grade do you give the Twins this offseason?

[Mike Sixel]

F

[Cory Engelhardt]

Incomplete. No way it's done yet. 

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Incomplete. No way it's done yet. 

Pitchers and catchers reported. It's done.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Pitchers and catchers reported. It's done.

The Taylor Rogers and Brent Rooker for Chris Paddack trade happened on 4/7/22, and all reporting out there states the Twins still want a SS and at least one more right handed reliever. Frankly with losing Pablo I almost expect another starter to potentially now be added too.

So no, I don't think the time to add players prior to opening day is in any sense done.

[DJL44]

Trades can still happen, but we are in spring training. It’s the preseason, not the offseason.

[Cory Engelhardt]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Trades can still happen, but we are in spring training. It’s the preseason, not the offseason.

Real games start 3/26/26. Lots of time between now and then. That's all

[bunsen82]

The issue is the majority of the work is done.   Now,  the Pablo injury did create a wrench,  and there is a possibility that contract was insured so may have opened up other money to be used.  Even still on the free agent market,  Lucas Giolito, Zach Littell and Kopech are the only 3 names in my opinion still a free agent that could move the needle.  Trades could happen, but they aren't major players generally this late in the preseason.   There is in't much that is moving the needle.  D+ in my book,  C- if picked up Kopech.    

[howeda7]

Since it included Derek Falvey finally getting fired, it's upgraded from an F to a C. 

[Kevin Sheehan]

ESPN ranked all MLB teams. Twins were only team receiving an F. I find it hard to argue with the grade

[jctwins]

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Since it included Derek Falvey finally getting fired, it's upgraded from an F to a C. 

This is an interesting consideration I wish I would have thought of.

[Permanent Twins Fan]

I give them a B- because I doubt Falvey/Zoll were given the financial freedom to spend much money. Despite that, they still managed to build a almost league average bullpen, and brought in a few fringe bats.

[Parfigliano]

I gave a D for dumping Falvey.

[Vanimal46]

D because a couple of the tidal wave of recently signed 30+ year old relievers will work out this season. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I gave them a D because I actually really like the Bell and Caratini signings.

The problem is that they didn't have enough money to do anything else, which is largely the fault of ownership. But also, this front office refuses to adapt to their new reality of payroll, and make trades that need to be made. So they get some blame for that.

[bunsen82]

15 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Since it included Derek Falvey finally getting fired, it's upgraded from an F to a C. 

And we replaced him internally with someone who either A will likely have the same philosophy,  B.  has 1 year of experience at this level of job.   Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  If you had it as an F should have gone to F-

[old nurse]

This is like giving a restaurant review off the list of ingredients to be used. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

4 hours ago, old nurse said:

This is like giving a restaurant review off the list of ingredients to be used. 

Ambiance is fine and dandy, but is the food good?

if the food isn’t good, I don’t really care about the color of the napkins 

[old nurse]

15 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Ambiance is fine and dandy, but is the food good?

if the food isn’t good, I don’t really care about the color of the napkins 

The Hamburger at Meisters is far better than a hamburger at a fast food restaurant.  Same ingredients. 

[bean5302]

44 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Ambiance is fine and dandy, but is the food good?

if the food isn’t good, I don’t really care about the color of the napkins 

Actually, appearances influence most people's perception of the test of the food. The overall experience has more impact than you think so maybe the food is terrible but the stupid "M" is for Mariners hats have ruined your palate. Maybe the food would taste better without bad uniforms, hahaha

[Richie the Rally Goat]

16 hours ago, old nurse said:

The Hamburger at Meisters is far better than a hamburger at a fast food restaurant.  Same ingredients. 

That is exactly the point. Ground beef, bun, sauce is not detailed enough to make a comparison. Using that comparison, one would never know that Meisters is better than McDonalds.

Fresh Wagyu beef, bakery bun, chef recipe aioli compared to frozen grade B ground beef, wonder bread bun, generic catsup.

It’s the quality of the ingredients. You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.

 

[old nurse]

34 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

That is exactly the point. Ground beef, bun, sauce is not detailed enough to make a comparison. Using that comparison, one would never know that Meisters is better than McDonalds.

Fresh Wagyu beef, bakery bun, chef recipe aioli compared to frozen grade B ground beef, wonder bread bun, generic catsup.

It’s the quality of the ingredients. You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.

 

But the capabilities of players are not completely a foregone conclusion. Carlos Correa had contributed 34 BWAR to Houston in 750 games played, 10.4 WAR in his 450 games in Minnesota. The acquisitions of. Ryan and Lopez is the other direction.  How can you grade when nothing really is certain. If what they bought performs better than expected, it should be a good grade. If you are grading because they did not invest in the team, you have to show they could get a return on that investment. You can’t show that is a possible outcome for the Twins. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

8 minutes ago, old nurse said:

But the capabilities of players are not completely a foregone conclusion. Carlos Correa had contributed 34 BWAR to Houston in 750 games played, 10.4 WAR in his 450 games in Minnesota. The acquisitions of. Ryan and Lopez is the other direction.  How can you grade when nothing really is certain. If what they bought performs better than expected, it should be a good grade. If you are grading because they did not invest in the team, you have to show they could get a return on that investment. You can’t show that is a possible outcome for the Twins. 

So, don’t try because you might fail?

they did not buy fresh Wagyu beef

they did not buy a Wagyu cow

they didn’t even buy a Wagyu calf

 

they bought the gristly ground leftover bits from a past its prime bull

 

[old nurse]

22 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

So, don’t try because you might fail?

they did not buy fresh Wagyu beef

they did not buy a Wagyu cow

they didn’t even buy a Wagyu calf

 

they bought the gristly ground leftover bits from a past its prime bull

 

When. They bought Correa, they thought they were buying Wagyu, they got ground chuck. When they bought Bader last year he was coming off. 2 seasons of being expired ground beef. He played like wagyu. Sorry that your bias clouds you.

[bean5302]

42 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

So, don’t try because you might fail?

they did not buy fresh Wagyu beef

they did not buy a Wagyu cow

they didn’t even buy a Wagyu calf

 

they bought the gristly ground leftover bits from a past its prime bull

 

Correa was projected to be the #1 free agent in all of baseball for 2022 at: 10yrs $320MM.

Correa was projected to be the #2 free agent in all of baseball for 2023 at: 9yrs $288MM.

He was billed as wagyu. Didn't work out.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

43 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Correa was projected to be the #1 free agent in all of baseball for 2022 at: 10yrs $320MM.

Correa was projected to be the #2 free agent in all of baseball for 2023 at: 9yrs $288MM.

He was billed as wagyu. Didn't work out.

Correa was the second best position player on the team and exactly why you buy Wagyu. He was awesome and absolutely worked out

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

When. They bought Correa, they thought they were buying Wagyu, they got ground chuck. When they bought Bader last year he was coming off. 2 seasons of being expired ground beef. He played like wagyu. Sorry that your bias clouds you.

Correa was great! Bader was also very good! I’d kill for 5 more Harrison Bader signings as this team does not have a SS or a bullpen. Talk about bias clouding judgement, have you looked in the mirror?

2022-2025

[old nurse]

5 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Correa was great! Bader was also very good! I’d kill for 5 more Harrison Bader signings as this team does not have a SS or a bullpen. Talk about bias clouding judgement, have you looked in the mirror?

2022-2025

The restaurant can’t buy Wagyu when the customers won’t pay for it.  The ample evidence is the crowds that did not come out to see Correa, nor Gray and Lopez. Instead you get to see what the chef makes with what they have  You can’t give it a grade until you see what they can make of it. . 

[Mike Sixel]

33 minutes ago, old nurse said:

The restaurant can’t buy Wagyu when the customers won’t pay for it.  The ample evidence is the crowds that did not come out to see Correa, nor Gray and Lopez. Instead you get to see what the chef makes with what they have  You can’t give it a grade until you see what they can make of it. . 

If you only grade things after they happen, what's the point? And, sometimes things turn out badly, even if you make a good choice (of vice versa). If your pilot decides to use the flaps wrong, do you wait to see if you crash before you know it was a bad decision? 

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

If you only grade things after they happen, what's the point? And, sometimes things turn out badly, even if you make a good choice (of vice versa). If your pilot decides to use the flaps wrong, do you wait to see if you crash before you know it was a bad decision? 

What is the point of grading something you don’t know how it is going to turn out? All subjectivity