Astros 5, Twins 2: Beaten Bats, Balk Ruin Home Opener for Minnesota Twins

[LastOnePicked]

48 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

The players aren’t getting it done. The Manager getting them more fired up to hit or perform in general, seems to be some imaginary solution to me.

For a smaller stretch in a long season, I think you're right. Baseball has it's ups and downs, and players have to adjust.

But we're talking about long term patterns here. Baldelli has had multiple seasons and multiple roster turnovers, and yet we see the same thing. If the longball is working, the Twins are okay. If the game is tight and smart play is the deciding factor, the Twins fall flat.

Managers matter. The best ones have a feel for the game, set their players up for success and get better play out of their players over time. There's nothing imaginary about that. That's why Francona is, as you mention, bound for the HOF.

[karcherd]

Another thought on Baldelli.  Larnach doesn't start against Perez but then he lets him hit against Hader.  That is the time to pinch hit for him.  I want Larnach and Wallner to get more chances against LH pitching but can we at least smart about it.  I know Gasper was the only option but that is why Larnach and Wallner more chances at least give them a chance at success.

[tony&rodney]

12 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Louie Varland coughed up another run but Alcala and McCaughan did fine. Varland was lousy last fall and he's been lousy so far this season. 71.4% hard hit.

Varland gave up a run because Bader took a few steps back and couldn't get a read on a fly ball out. Bader is a good outfielder but he is new to the corner outfield. He is playing fine, but no run scores if that simple fly ball is caught. Varland may not pan out as a relief pitcher but I'm guessing about 29 other teams would love to have him. 

On a similar note, Ryan gives up 2 runs on a single with the infield in on the grass in the 4th inning. I guess Rocco already knew the Twins were not going to score again but watching other games across baseball there aren't any other teams using that practice, at least in my SSS of a couple dozen games. The blame goes to Ryan for the balk but it might be an idea to concede a run in the early innings in a belief, perhaps false, that the Twins might score some runs.

[JD-TWINS]

42 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

For a smaller stretch in a long season, I think you're right. Baseball has it's ups and downs, and players have to adjust.

But we're talking about long term patterns here. Baldelli has had multiple seasons and multiple roster turnovers, and yet we see the same thing. If the longball is working, the Twins are okay. If the game is tight and smart play is the deciding factor, the Twins fall flat.

Managers matter. The best ones have a feel for the game, set their players up for success and get better play out of their players over time. There's nothing imaginary about that. That's why Francona is, as you mention, bound for the HOF.

Well said! ………… I don’t necessarily disagree on his inability to be a great (good) game strategist but individuals have to hit the ball.

Francona excelled in Boston with some interesting culture guys & he helped that fit together but they had some pretty high performing bats on those clubs.

Baldelli hit .290 for 3 years when healthy ……. .330 OBP - averaged 3.0 WAR. He’s not detached on what it takes to be a successful hitter at MLB level. Maybe he doesn’t convey things well? My view is the players get a free pass on TD way too often & Baldelli is the fall guy.

[JD-TWINS]

Obvious here: 3 - 1 - 0 - 2 -2 runs in the 5 losses………where’s the real issue? Not the Pen - not the Starters.

[RpR]

13 hours ago, h2oface said:

"A small consolation for Twins fans? Jose Altuve had a nightmare of a day at the plate, going 0-for-5 with five strikeouts—the first time in his career he has worn the dreaded platinum sombrero. The crowd began booing him in pregame introductions, and by the fifth strikeout in the ninth inning, they were raised to a fever pitch. Unfortunately, that was about the only thing that went the Twins’ way in a disappointing home opener."

Twins fans merilessly boo Altuve, still, just like all the other stadiums in which Houston visits. And all the other stadiums mercilessly boo Correa, still, except Houston...... and Minnesota. They boo them for the same reason - that they cheated the game, and were never compunctious, and never had to suffer a penalty for it. Why boo Altuve in Minnesota, if you give Correa a pass (and actually revere him), when he did exactly the same thing you are booing Altuve for?

Why boo anyone, it is childish.

[RpR]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

A team of mostly the same players is playing mostly the same as they did last season. Ty France also looks mostly the same as he did last season. Christian Vazquez doesn't have a hit or a walk but somehow managed to get caught stealing.

Last Sept.

[Woof Bronzer]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

So, I get the frustration!!

Twins fan living 3 decades in Cincinnati. Terry Francona, I assume everyone on TD would agree, is more than solid & as certain a HOF Manager as one can be. The Reds have lost 3 straight games 1-0! Players have to perform and the Manager can’t be responsible …… more than roughly 10-20% (IMO) for any guy’s performance. Whether it’s technical skill improvement - strategy - motivation - discipline …………the Manager can only do so much that then translates into the batter’s box.

The players aren’t getting it done. The Manager getting them more fired up to hit or perform in general, seems to be some imaginary solution to me. It’s not football - basketball where more physical aggression and nastiness translates into results. My opinion only - I’m sure many think otherwise.

Talent - calm mind - intuitive feel - scouting knowledge - thinking on your feet as count evolves ……………these individual traits make up a hitter not some attitude or wisdom from the Manager.

If a manager's duties do not include "getting the best out of his players"...what DO they include?  

[LA Vikes Fan]

12 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

The worst thing about this club is that they just aren't tenacious or sharp. They can't seem to will themselves to a victory. If things fall into place and the opposition makes plenty of mistakes, sure, they'll win a few games, but if it's close, they can't seem to get the big hit or make the big play or get the big strikeout. They don't seem ready for primetime. Again, that's a signal that the coaching approach isn't working.

Ryan's crucial balk, moving up the baserunners who scored on what otherwise would have been an inning-ending DP, was just another sign of a team whose players just aren't 100% in the game.

Its early, but it's also just tiring to watch/listen to this team.

I don't think it's tenacity or will, I think it's a lack of high end hitting talent. Here's my view:

(1) A consistent offense has consistent quality hitters in the 2-5 spots. We have Correa (usually a consistent hitter, now hitting .080), Buxton (streaky, should be hitting 5 or 6), Larnach ( improving but unproven, also should be hitting 5 or 6), and Ty France (30 year old who OPS'd .700 and .670 the last 2 years and is hitting .192, should be hitting 7 or 8 or on the bench).

(2) Wallner is out of place and out of sorts leading off. He should also be hitting 5 or 6 (see Larnach above).

(3) The catching position has Jeffers, who is at best inconsistent, really kind of an average hitter for a catcher (read mediocre for any other position), and Vasquez, who can't hit at all. 

(4) Bader had 3 HRs and 8 RBis! He's also hitting .211 and has a career .241/.305/.395 (.700) slash line. His current OPS will fall fast when (not if) he stops hitting HRS at a 100+ per year pace, probably back to his typical high .600s or low.700s.  Fine as a good glove 4th OF or even ok as a regular hitting 9th, but no savior for the offense or frankly even much help. 

(5) Only Castro is hitting of the rest of the bunch, and beyond him only Julien is hitting the ball hard. Maybe Miranda will come back, but Gaspar is great moustache on an aging AAA player and Keirsey? Who knows, he's had all of 16 MLB Abs with a sparking .489 OPS.   

The bottom line is that this team will not have a top 5 offense with the players we have on the current 26 man roster and will only have a middle of the pack offense if Correa, Buxton and Lewis are all playing and all hitting. Maybe top 10 if those 3 and Wallner and Larnach are hitting. That's just the reality of this team. Odds of all that happening are pretty slim.

The solution? Not sure there is one, but here's what I would try:

(1) Move Castro to the leadoff spot. Larnach hits 2, Correa 3, Buxton 4, and Wallner 5. Lewis slots in at 3 when he comes back and Correa moves to 6 unless he's really hot. 

(2) Call up Keaschall and give him a run at 2B. Demote Gaspar, move Julien to 1B/DH and actually play him there 5 days a week for a couple of weeks.  France to the bench or DH.

(3) Play Keirsey at the combined expense of Bader, Larnach or Wallner. Give him some ABs and see if he can hit enough and run enough to ignite this team. if you aren't sold enough on him to try that, back to AAA and onto the trade block.   

This is not working and frankly there no real signs or history that suggests that it's going to work. The lineup is out of balance and lacks enough consistent hitters. I'm getting ready for a long season of a lot of 5-2 games against us. 

[tony&rodney]

14 hours ago, h2oface said:

"A small consolation for Twins fans? Jose Altuve had a nightmare of a day at the plate, going 0-for-5 with five strikeouts—the first time in his career he has worn the dreaded platinum sombrero. The crowd began booing him in pregame introductions, and by the fifth strikeout in the ninth inning, they were raised to a fever pitch. Unfortunately, that was about the only thing that went the Twins’ way in a disappointing home opener."

Twins fans merilessly boo Altuve, still, just like all the other stadiums in which Houston visits. And all the other stadiums mercilessly boo Correa, still, except Houston...... and Minnesota. They boo them for the same reason - that they cheated the game, and were never compunctious, and never had to suffer a penalty for it. Why boo Altuve in Minnesota, if you give Correa a pass (and actually revere him), when he did exactly the same thing you are booing Altuve for?

Finding joy in someone's failure is a strange condition, one I cannot relate to.

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The solution? Not sure there is one, but here's what I would try:

This is not working and frankly there no real signs or history that suggests that it's going to work. The lineup is out of balance and lacks enough consistent hitters. I'm getting ready for a long season of a lot of 5-2 games against us. 

I don't think rearranging the hitters is going to help. If they want more offense, they'll need to trade pitching to get it. The only minor leaguer who looks like an upgrade on offense is Camargo over Vazquez.

They need a bat at 1B.

[JD-TWINS]

44 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If a manager's duties do not include "getting the best out of his players"...what DO they include?  

My point is they only have so much influence - they don’t control the outcome. It’s not a motivational message everyday…….Francona can manage  - right? His team has been shoutout 3 straight days……..first time since 1960. Did he take the last week off?

[JD-TWINS]

17 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I don't think rearranging the hitters is going to help. If they want more offense, they'll need to trade pitching to get it. The only minor leaguer who looks like an upgrade on offense is Camargo over Vazquez.

They need a bat at 1B.

Completely agree they should or should have moved some pitching (Duran with a young starter) for offense!

If Team’s lone upgrade is Camargo we’re in big trouble.

[JD-TWINS]

45 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I don't think it's tenacity or will, I think it's a lack of high end hitting talent. Here's my view:

(1) A consistent offense has consistent quality hitters in the 2-5 spots. We have Correa (usually a consistent hitter, now hitting .080), Buxton (streaky, should be hitting 5 or 6), Larnach ( improving but unproven, also should be hitting 5 or 6), and Ty France (30 year old who OPS'd .700 and .670 the last 2 years and is hitting .192, should be hitting 7 or 8 or on the bench).

(2) Wallner is out of place and out of sorts leading off. He should also be hitting 5 or 6 (see Larnach above).

(3) The catching position has Jeffers, who is at best inconsistent, really kind of an average hitter for a catcher (read mediocre for any other position), and Vasquez, who can't hit at all. 

(4) Bader had 3 HRs and 8 RBis! He's also hitting .211 and has a career .241/.305/.395 (.700) slash line. His current OPS will fall fast when (not if) he stops hitting HRS at a 100+ per year pace, probably back to his typical high .600s or low.700s.  Fine as a good glove 4th OF or even ok as a regular hitting 9th, but no savior for the offense or frankly even much help. 

(5) Only Castro is hitting of the rest of the bunch, and beyond him only Julien is hitting the ball hard. Maybe Miranda will come back, but Gaspar is great moustache on an aging AAA player and Keirsey? Who knows, he's had all of 16 MLB Abs with a sparking .489 OPS.   

The bottom line is that this team will not have a top 5 offense with the players we have on the current 26 man roster and will only have a middle of the pack offense if Correa, Buxton and Lewis are all playing and all hitting. Maybe top 10 if those 3 and Wallner and Larnach are hitting. That's just the reality of this team. Odds of all that happening are pretty slim.

The solution? Not sure there is one, but here's what I would try:

(1) Move Castro to the leadoff spot. Larnach hits 2, Correa 3, Buxton 4, and Wallner 5. Lewis slots in at 3 when he comes back and Correa moves to 6 unless he's really hot. 

(2) Call up Keaschall and give him a run at 2B. Demote Gaspar, move Julien to 1B/DH and actually play him there 5 days a week for a couple of weeks.  France to the bench or DH.

(3) Play Keirsey at the combined expense of Bader, Larnach or Wallner. Give him some ABs and see if he can hit enough and run enough to ignite this team. if you aren't sold enough on him to try that, back to AAA and onto the trade block.   

This is not working and frankly there no real signs or history that suggests that it's going to work. The lineup is out of balance and lacks enough consistent hitters. I'm getting ready for a long season of a lot of 5-2 games against us. 

Some good thoughts here!

Lewis at an average level of performance is missed.

Wallner leading off is a real mystery!! Can’t have 4 guys hitting “5-6” though.

Seems with the number of starts Bader has had, nobody in organization thinks Kiersey can hit. He’s pinch runner - emergency defense. If healthy, Keaschall seems to be a near term replacement to free up Castro for OF duty as needed.

Bader - Castro - Larnach - Buxton - Wallner - Correa - Jeffers - France - Miranda 

Keaschall at 2B or Julien at 2B with Castro at 3B makes near term sense. Castro in LF instead of Bader makes sense as well.

Waiting for temps to get above 55F consistently before there’s any panic.

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I don't think it's tenacity or will, I think it's a lack of high end hitting talent. Here's my view:

Everything you wrote is great and well thought out. I'd just counter with this: tenacity and will includes - and often coincides with - good decision-making. It was Baldelli who decided that France would be an everyday player. It was Baldelli who put Wallner in the leadoff spot. Many of the decisions from the dugout create barriers to success in close moments.

Look, I agree this is not a well-constructed team. But just the constant mental lapses and a general lack of readiness to play are certainly a sign of a deeper organizational problem, too. To me, at least.

[1985Fan]

It just seems like a continuation of last seasons collapse. Offense can’t score and every little error, mistake, or play not made is devastating. When they get behind or the other team evens the score, they look defeated. They just don’t have the confidence to come from behind. 
Baldelli’s practice of playing the infield in early in the game is another of his tactics that hamstring this team. Give up a run to stop the big inning! He has always played infield in and it doesn’t seem to ever work. You would think that if he was so smart, he’d learn on the fly and make adjustments. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

6 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Since the beginning of last season, there seems to be very little & diminishing fire & chemistry. Twins seem very little concerned about it & more concerned about their cold, hard analytics. Frustrating their players by not giving them a chance, moving them to unnatural positions, & etc. IMO, BOS has done the same thing this year. On paper, they looked really good by getting Bregman, but they failed to smooth things over with Devers 1st. People's feelings that generate fire & chemistry are ignored because they aren't included on the spreadsheet.

Players are not a number on a stat sheet and even we as fans shouldn't look at them as such. Most teams that win a WS do so because they mesh together into a team. The 1988 Dodgers come to my mind, that wasn't the best most talented team that year but they had chemistry going for them.

[AceWrigley]

10 hours ago, LambchoP said:

The balk and then bringing the infield in cost us two runs. Not that it matters if your lineup can't score runs. I am worried about Correa. Didn't hit all spring and now he's 2-25? Seems like every at bat is a ground out to SS. He needs to get going, like Buck. It was nice to see him get some hits and even steal a base. Pitching wise we look ok. Other than Varland our pen has been decent. I'm not sold on Louie. A guy with that kind of velo shouldn't be getting hit so hard. Problem is I think his fastball is flat. Plus, he doesn't have any good secondary pitches, so hitters can just sit on the heater. He needs to get the curve or slider to work otherwise I fear he won't last.

He has 2 really good pitches, but that 90 mph changeup is crap.

[AceWrigley]

8 hours ago, RpR said:

Why boo anyone, it is childish.

Boo I say . . . boo!

[Blyleven2011]

11 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

So, I get the frustration!!

Twins fan living 3 decades in Cincinnati. Terry Francona, I assume everyone on TD would agree, is more than solid & as certain a HOF Manager as one can be. The Reds have lost 3 straight games 1-0! Players have to perform and the Manager can’t be responsible …… more than roughly 10-20% (IMO) for any guy’s performance. Whether it’s technical skill improvement - strategy - motivation - discipline …………the Manager can only do so much that then translates into the batter’s box.

The players aren’t getting it done. The Manager getting them more fired up to hit or perform in general, seems to be some imaginary solution to me. It’s not football - basketball where more physical aggression and nastiness translates into results. My opinion only - I’m sure many think otherwise.

Talent - calm mind - intuitive feel - scouting knowledge - thinking on your feet as count evolves ……………these individual traits make up a hitter not some attitude or wisdom from the Manager.

You said it , the players aren't getting it done , I say it is all the manager and coaches and FO  that should take most of the responsibility ...

Minor league players have to develop  to move up in the system  , each level gets harder  , you don't stop honing your skills  , coaches coach so they can move up but once the player gets to the MLB level  and the hardest level , it seems our coaches ( rocco's and Falvey's top  professionals,  their words not mine) aren't teaching this talented bunch enough to be a better talent  ...

I just don't see this happening with our youth since rocco's been  deployed as manager , everyone screams that the team lacks fundamentals  for example  , there's alot more procedures they could instill in the players  , situational hitting would be another ...

Baseball is probably the hardest game to play in professional sports , are the players just looking at it like it's a job and for the money or are they just lacking the passion to be a better player or just collecting a paycheck ??? ...

After 7 games they just don't show they prepared well in spring training for the regular season  , yikes  ...

[h2oface]

18 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

To be fair to Ryan, the pitch to Peña looked like a very good pitch indeed. It was high and tight, but he just tomahawked it. Give credit where credit is due.

When you score seven or eight, the miscues seem to be a minor irritation; however, when it's only two or three runs a night, they are glaring....

The pitch wasn't high and that tight, it was more high and center. It was just above the zone, barely, maybe even touching the top of the zone. Pena crushed it. But as Ryan said, it was what they wanted to do.... go up the ladder, have it close to the zone, and the bet was Pena would swing under it. High and tight would have been better, for sure, but then maybe he takes. On an 0-2 count, it was too close, either way. Pena won that one.

[h2oface]

17 hours ago, RpR said:

Why boo anyone, it is childish.

 

17 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Finding joy in someone's failure is a strange condition, one I cannot relate to.

Sports' fans are generally childish. They hate other teams and players just because they always beat their own favorite team. Not all, but in general. They like to talk tough like school yard bullies, and see pitchers purposely throw at batters and "have your back", like that ever really does. I am ambivalent about the booing, really. I don't really care, mostly. I love baseball, so I love to watch other teams excel and appreciate great plays, no matter who does it. I always hate when umpires guess wrong and affect the human aspect of the game...... the players' excellent pitch or take (and it can't be corrected). In this specific case, I never appreciated, and still don't, the lack of apology from Altuve and Correa. They never had to serve a penalty for the long term, premeditated cheat. They never really admitted to doing it. I really don't mind the booing of them, and find it comical and entertaining when I see it, all over the league. It is deafening and uproariously funny in Dodger Stadium. They both deserve it, because they never fessed up. I find it massively hypocritical of Minnesota fans to ignore Correa's behavior, but hate on Altuve. If you are going to give Correa a pass, and actually honor him, then hating on Altuve is sanctimonious and self-righteous. Not a good look.