Starting Pitching

[SoDakTwinsFan]

TD has posted a few articles on who the Twins should target for pitching help down the stretch.  

Just sign Trevor Bauer already.  The guy has stated he would play for the league minimum so he would be cheap.  The allegations made against him were proven to be completely false.  He dominated in Japan last year and is doing the same in Mexico this year.  He would be our #2 at a minimum.  Multiple players have stated he is a great clubhouse guy.

What am I missing here?

[Mike Sixel]

That zero teams want him? He's not good anymore? 

[Vanimal46]

Trevor Bauer isn’t going to pitch in the MLB again. All 30 teams saying no to signing him the last 2 years says it all. Maybe if he wasn’t a giant A-hole some team would have taken a chance by now. 

[OptimisticTwinsFan]

I would take a flyer on Bauer. There isn't much downside to offering him the minimum. He has more than served punishment (blackballed from the MLB, lost out on 10s of millions of dollars ) for allegations that were proven false in a court of law. What's the worst thing that happens, he has a high ERA at AAA as he ramps to pitch in the majors and he never makes it? The Twins take flyers on uber drivers who play for the Saint Paul Saints and have an interesting spin rate. 

They won't though.

[SoDakTwinsFan]

On 7/9/2024 at 12:30 PM, Mike Sixel said:

That zero teams want him? He's not good anymore? 

What makes you say he’s not good anymore?  You seriously think the Twins’ starting 5 are all better than him?  
 

 

[Craig Arko]

14 minutes ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

What makes you say he’s not good anymore?  You seriously think the Twins’ starting 5 are all better than him?  
 

 

Yes.

[SoDakTwinsFan]

7 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Yes.

Yeah, he definitely would not be an upgrade over Paddack and Lopex at this point.  Those ERA's over 5 should really bode well for the Twins down the stretch.

[Craig Arko]

2 minutes ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

Yeah, he definitely would not be an upgrade over Paddack and Lopex at this point.  Those ERA's over 5 should really bode well for the Twins down the stretch.

Perhaps ERA is not the only relevant parameter for ‘better.’

[Cory Engelhardt]

On 7/9/2024 at 12:29 PM, SoDakTwinsFan said:

TD has posted a few articles on who the Twins should target for pitching help down the stretch.  

Just sign Trevor Bauer already.  The guy has stated he would play for the league minimum so he would be cheap.  The allegations made against him were proven to be completely false.  He dominated in Japan last year and is doing the same in Mexico this year.  He would be our #2 at a minimum.  Multiple players have stated he is a great clubhouse guy.

What am I missing here?

We've been over this a billion times. The Twins aren't going to sign him. Falvey certainly knows him from his time in Cleveland. Tyler Mahle and Kyle Farmer were both his teammate, as well as Carlos Santana. If any of them thought he would both A) Help the team win and B) be a positive in the clubhouse, he would have been signed by now. But they could have signed him last year too and didn't. There are a multitude of reasons for that.

Also, he was found not guilty for one of his 5 or so legitimate charges out there. There are a number that are still ongoing.

Please move on. It's not worth it to continue to rehash bringing him to MLB again. It's just not.

[SoDakTwinsFan]

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

We've been over this a billion times. The Twins aren't going to sign him. Falvey certainly knows him from his time in Cleveland. Tyler Mahle and Kyle Farmer were both his teammate, as well as Carlos Santana. If any of them thought he would both A) Help the team win and B) be a positive in the clubhouse, he would have been signed by now. But they could have signed him last year too and didn't. There are a multitude of reasons for that.

Also, he was found not guilty for one of his 5 or so legitimate charges out there. There are a number that are still ongoing.

Please move on. It's not worth it to continue to rehash bringing him to MLB again. It's just not.

Are these other allegations more or less legitimate than the one the got himself on MLB’s naughty list and how do you know if they are more legitimate?

mookie Betts has stated he would take Bauer back.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 hour ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

Are these other allegations more or less legitimate than the one the got himself on MLB’s naughty list and how do you know if they are more legitimate?

mookie Betts has stated he would take Bauer back.

Just as legit. And Mookie isn't a decision maker right? And to that point, the Dodgers would want to add starting pitching as much as any team out there right? If Mookie is the one guy you know of that is saying they should bring him back, why hasn't he had a chance in LA?

It's done. He isn't coming back. Let's move on and talk about potential players that could be options.

[jud6312]

Allegations and the PR nightmare he'd bring aside, I'm not sure where this "good clubhouse guy" stuff comes from. The word has always been - going back to UCLA - that he is very much the opposite of that.

 

There was the throwing the ball over the centerfield wall incident, I'd forgotten that he injured himself with a drone before a playoff game, he and Cole wanted to kill each other at UCLA, he's relentlessly trolls people on social media that mention they don't like him, and if you watch any of his YouTube videos it becomes apparently obvious that Trevor cares only about Trevor.

 

Here's a piece from Medium: https://medium.com/@cwhughes07/trevor-bauer-crybaby-selfish-clubhouse-cancer-and-extremely-overrated-37ff960366fd

 

Here's a fun one from NBC Sports during his Cleveland years: https://www.nbcsports.com/mlb/news/trevor-bauer-is-brutally-honest-sometimes-just-brutal

 

And another from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/21/why-on-earth-is-climate-skeptic-twitter-troll-trevor-bauer-mlb-most-hated-man

 

And another: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2645021/2021/06/14/why-do-those-two-clash-inside-the-legendary-gerrit-cole-trevor-bauer-rivalry-at-ucla/

 

And another: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2018/05/24/trevor-bauer-gerrit-cole-ucla-dont-like-each-other/640362002/

 

The road seems to be littered with stories about how Trevor Bauer has a negative impact on the teams and people around him. I think the biggest thing this Twins team has going for them is their chemistry - I don't think it's enough to get beyond the first round (if they even make the playoffs), but why risk it for a guy that's proven time and again to care only about himself?

[Sutter50]

Back in the day , the Twins signed Steve Howe. Suspended 7 times for alcohol and cocaine abuse.

Nickname was Steve (Howe many chances does he get?).

Twins cut him after 1 month when he missed 3 games due to cocaine.

Give Bauer a chance if he is a bad guy or doesn't produce , get rid of him.

[Squirrel]

4 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Also, he was found not guilty for one of his 5 or so legitimate charges out there. There are a number that are still ongoing.

Actually he wasn’t found not guilty. Nor found guilty. Yes, the charges were dubious, but this was a civil suit settled, not by the courts.

[Squirrel]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:51 PM, OptimisticTwinsFan said:

I would take a flyer on Bauer. There isn't much downside to offering him the minimum. He has more than served punishment (blackballed from the MLB, lost out on 10s of millions of dollars ) for allegations that were proven false in a court of law. What's the worst thing that happens, he has a high ERA at AAA as he ramps to pitch in the majors and he never makes it? The Twins take flyers on uber drivers who play for the Saint Paul Saints and have an interesting spin rate. 

They won't though.

Just because no one wants to take on the risk and liability doesn’t mean MLB put the word out not to hire him. Show me where there is proof that MLB told all the owners not to hire him. Owners are billionaire business people. They don’t get there by not weighing the risk in any transaction. The risk is high on Bauer. I don’t blame the owners for not wanting to touch that. Thats not being blackballed. Thats just the consequences of your actions causing you difficulties. While one case was settled, not by a court proving innocence or guilt, there are still outstanding allegations from other women that I think are left to be settled. Until then, again, too much risk.

[Twodogs]

8 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Just because no one wants to take on the risk and liability doesn’t mean MLB put the word out not to hire him. Show me where there is proof that MLB told all the owners not to hire him. Owners are billionaire business people. They don’t get there by not weighing the risk in any transaction. The risk is high on Bauer. I don’t blame the owners for not wanting to touch that. Thats not being blackballed. Thats just the consequences of your actions causing you difficulties. While one case was settled, not by a court proving innocence or guilt, there are still outstanding allegations from other women that I think are left to be settled. Until then, again, too much risk.

Just because no one can show you proof right at this moment doesn't mean MLB hasn't colluded to not sign him.  I mean it seems pretty weird no one would take a flier on him.  MLB has been found guilty of collision before, when no one was supposed to know.  Realize that all of these billionaires all know each other, and have to be able to work together, so a few hand shakes under the table wouldn't be surprising at all.  I'm sure he's been Colin Kaepernicked.  But if no one else is going to get him, then at least we aren't missing out on anything.  He's probably at least good enough still to compete.  I mean he did well in Japan last season, look what Yamamoto got?  Regardless of whether you hate him or could care less about him or like him the facts are that he's good enough or been good enough to get a shot.   So guys like Michael Vick got forgiven, Deshaun Watson was forgiven, I mean the list goes on and on.  So he's probably been black balled,  but like I said, if he can't be used against us then who cares if we can't get him?

[Sutter50]

24 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

Just because no one can show you proof right at this moment doesn't mean MLB hasn't colluded to not sign him.  I mean it seems pretty weird no one would take a flier on him.  MLB has been found guilty of collision before, when no one was supposed to know.  Realize that all of these billionaires all know each other, and have to be able to work together, so a few hand shakes under the table wouldn't be surprising at all.  I'm sure he's been Colin Kaepernicked.  But if no one else is going to get him, then at least we aren't missing out on anything.  He's probably at least good enough still to compete.  I mean he did well in Japan last season, look what Yamamoto got?  Regardless of whether you hate him or could care less about him or like him the facts are that he's good enough or been good enough to get a shot.   So guys like Michael Vick got forgiven, Deshaun Watson was forgiven, I mean the list goes on and on.  So he's probably been black balled,  but like I said, if he can't be used against us then who cares if we can't get him?

You stole my thunder about the collusion that the owners did back in the day.. it will never be admitted to. You are right, there have been scumbags worse than Bauer who have been forgiven and were able to play again.. as I said before, keep a tight leash on him, if he doesn't perform get rid of him, if he causes trouble in the clubhouse get rid of him. Ask the players, if they dont want him, don't sign him

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Twodogs said:

I mean it seems pretty weird no one would take a flier on him

Why? Look at all of the links @jud6312shared. He is a grade A asshat. 

[Sutter50]

6 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Why? Look at all of the links @jud6312shared. He is a grade A asshat. 

So was AJ Pierzynski

[Vanimal46]

2 minutes ago, Sutter50 said:

So was AJ Pierzynski

Cool? We traded him away. 

[Squirrel]

23 hours ago, Sutter50 said:

So was AJ Pierzynski

AJ is a choir boy compared to Bauer. We can talk about Bauer until we’re blue in the face. There are a group who think all wrong has committed against him and a group who think the liability and risk are too great because he still has pending cases, he’s a horrible teammate, and would be a PR nightmare to any team. That’s really the end of it and the end of all these discussions. No one will budge from their corners so it’s pointless to even keep bringing it up time and time again. It leads nowhere.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Twodogs said:

Just because no one can show you proof right at this moment doesn't mean MLB hasn't colluded to not sign him.  I mean it seems pretty weird no one would take a flier on him.  MLB has been found guilty of collision before, when no one was supposed to know.  Realize that all of these billionaires all know each other, and have to be able to work together, so a few hand shakes under the table wouldn't be surprising at all.  I'm sure he's been Colin Kaepernicked.  But if no one else is going to get him, then at least we aren't missing out on anything.  He's probably at least good enough still to compete.  I mean he did well in Japan last season, look what Yamamoto got?  Regardless of whether you hate him or could care less about him or like him the facts are that he's good enough or been good enough to get a shot.   So guys like Michael Vick got forgiven, Deshaun Watson was forgiven, I mean the list goes on and on.  So he's probably been black balled,  but like I said, if he can't be used against us then who cares if we can't get him?

You are the one making the accusation saying he’s been blackballed so it’s you who needs to prove it. All you’ve pointed to is circumstantial. Until you can find documentation of discussions, it’s only a theory. I just think he’s a huge liability and a pr nightmare that no one wants to deal with. Those are simply consequences of bad actions. And, for the record, I wouldn’t have wanted any of those other players on my teams, either. And I don’t want Bauer on my Twins team. We are doing well. We don’t need him. And even though might sign for MLB minimum, we have an owner who has already said that’s it for payroll this year. Bauer simply isn’t worth it.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

40 minutes ago, Sutter50 said:

So was AJ Pierzynski

AJ Pierzynski was (and likely still is) a bit of an asshat.  However, that was in the competitive/obnoxious sense of the word, not the criminal one.  There's a big important difference. 

[jud6312]

AJ was always known as the guy you hate when he's on the other team. Bauer seems to be the guy that you hate when he's on your team. That, combined with the PR circus that would follow, makes him a poor investment, even at the prorated league minimum.

[SoDakTwinsFan]

15 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Just as legit. And Mookie isn't a decision maker right? And to that point, the Dodgers would want to add starting pitching as much as any team out there right? If Mookie is the one guy you know of that is saying they should bring him back, why hasn't he had a chance in LA?

It's done. He isn't coming back. Let's move on and talk about potential players that could be options.

So these allegations according to you are just as legitimate as the one the where all the accuser's allegations were found to be not true?  Guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

 

You can not want him on our team and that's fine but if a reason is because there are allegations of SA as credible as the Lindsey Hill one then your reasoning is 100% flawed.  He was clearly "me too'd".  The fact is teams would put up with him for being a jerk but not he is getting "me too'd" and that is what is keeping him from having an MLB job ant that is B.S. because the initial allegation was all one big lie.

[Cory Engelhardt]

11 minutes ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

So these allegations according to you are just as legitimate as the one the where all the accuser's allegations were found to be not true?  Guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

 

You can not want him on our team and that's fine but if a reason is because there are allegations of SA as credible as the Lindsey Hill one then your reasoning is 100% flawed.  He was clearly "me too'd".  The fact is teams would put up with him for being a jerk but not he is getting "me too'd" and that is what is keeping him from having an MLB job ant that is B.S. because the initial allegation was all one big lie.

Are any of us privvy to specific details to any of the allegations? No, and certainly mlb and their lawyers have more information to go off of than anyone in the general public would.

There is a reason teams do not wanting him in their clubhouses, and they would absolutely have the intel for that no? If you think otherwise, I don't know what to tell you.

[Brandon]

We could meet in the middle and sign him to a minors deal and send him to AA .or AAA  If he is a good teammate and pitches well, he could earn a promotion to the show.  ST Paul Saints used to be the place for big leaguers to resurrect their careers.  

 

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

We could meet in the middle and sign him to a minors deal and send him to AA .or AAA  If he is a good teammate and pitches well, he could earn a promotion to the show.  ST Paul Saints used to be the place for big leaguers to resurrect their careers.  

 

Why do we need to sign him at all? We don’t need him. We’re not desperate. I don’t think he would slot in better than Lopez, Ryan or Ober. I’m just not willing to take the risk. And I don’t think any team is, which is why no one has. Maybe a team will if they are desperate enough, but we will see. I just don’t think the Twins will. They tend to shy away from and ship out the ‘bad boy’ types

[Squirrel]

23 hours ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

So these allegations according to you are just as legitimate as the one the where all the accuser's allegations were found to be not true?  Guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

 

You can not want him on our team and that's fine but if a reason is because there are allegations of SA as credible as the Lindsey Hill one then your reasoning is 100% flawed.  He was clearly "me too'd".  The fact is teams would put up with him for being a jerk but not he is getting "me too'd" and that is what is keeping him from having an MLB job ant that is B.S. because the initial allegation was all one big lie.

He was not clearly ‘me too’d’ and the allegations were not all one big lie. He did what he did. The dubious part of the accuser was that she engaged with him to set out to trap him, hoping for a payday, and for that civil suits went away. But what was done to her was still done to her and he did that. And some of what was done to her was done to her after he rendered her unconscious. There is no consent at that point. That is straight up sexual assault. It doesn’t matter how or why they got there. This was not tried in a court of law, so there is no proven innocent or guilt, there were only settled, without payment, civil suits and counter suits. And given the intent of the accuser, I think that was the only call to make. But neither party is innocent of wrong doing here, just a couple of very bad actors who are paying the price for their actions in other ways.

As to the other pending allegations, it shows a pattern of violence and abuse. Until those are settled I don’t think anyone wants to touch him. Maybe he’s changed. I hope so for everyone’s sake. But until the other pending allegations are settled he is a liability risk and a distraction.

I won’t rehash the teammate aspects as they are pretty well documented. As I said above, if someone as highly respected as Terry Francona has him shipped out while still in the hunt for a playoff spot, that says something to me. I think our team has a really good vibe going, with good chemistry. I’m not sure I want to risk that, either, introducing Bauer to the mix. He is pretty much a lone wolf, him first team second, kind of player, who eschews coaching.

As for your use of ‘me too’d’, stop that now. It’s dismissive and belittling and hugely disrespectful of the very real and legitimate struggles of many women out there. Dont use that term in such a pejorative manner again or you will find yourself ‘timed out.’

[Brandon]

56 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Why do we need to sign him at all? We don’t need him. We’re not desperate. I don’t think he would slot in better than Lopez, Ryan or Ober. I’m just not willing to take the risk. And I don’t think any team is, which is why no one has. Maybe a team will if they are desperate enough, but we will see. I just don’t think the Twins will. They tend to shy away from and ship out the ‘bad boy’ types

I don’t really care if we sign him or not.  I was just amused that this wasn’t stated earlier.  It’s been sign him or not but why not option c?