Kyle Farmer’s Duties Are Dwindling, and the Clock is Ticking

[DocBauer]

Farmer is a real gamer and from all accounts a really good guy, teammate, and leader. And I appreciate everything he did last season. And I was initially happy he was brought back, even if the $ didn't make a lot of sense.  And while 100 PA isn't a lot, we are at the 1/3 point of the season. Over his last 30 days he's hitting neen hitting .214 with an OB% of .290 and a SLG% of .321. 

That's just not remotely close to being good. And as stated, he's not even hitting LHP any longer.

Can he still turn it around? Yes. A veteran like him can figure something out, have the law of averages/luck flip and he's the same...or close to it...as he was last season. And that's fine, I care about what happens from today onward,  and not what's happened the first 2 months.

But so far, we're just not seeing any uptick. Lee is going to need some time to get ramped up after missing so much time. He's also  ot on the 40 man. And right now, all 3 spots he would play have a healthy starter. That works in Farmer's favor to get more time.

But Farmer isn't part of the future and won't be back next season. Lee IS part of the future, can play the same positions, offers a much better bat, and can help rest Lewis, Correa, and Julien and play on an almost daily basis.

Time is absolutely running out for Farmer. There HAS to come a time when you just have to say goodbye to someone not performing and not part of the future for someone else. But I believe Farmer probably has the month of June to see if he can figure it out.

[Shaitan]

I'd be surprised, but we're past that "mid-May" point where rosters begin to settle and clear out the underachievers. I think there's a real possibility.

But I also get the vibe (as others said above), that's he's sort of a Mike Redmond clubhouse type so...no idea what goes into these intangibles. It's hard to be a bench player, for sure, and I think it's not just about statistics.

[NotAboutWinning]

Lewis up, Julien down, Farmer as a placeholder at 2B until Lee gets his feet under him?

[mnfireman]

Farmer last 30 days - .250/.314/.344 (.658 OPS) 0 HR, 5 RBI, 7/2 K/BB

Julien last 30 days -   .186/.278/.200 (.478 OPS) 0 HR, 5 RBI, 29/9 K/BB

Farmer's OPS+ the last 30 days is roughly 90, Julien's OPS+ is roughly 45. As the RH bat in the RH/LH platoon, he's doing his job.   

[USAFChief]

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

  He also hit 5 or 6 doubles in those 36 AB.  

False.

Farmer has 3 XBH for the entire month of May.

He only has 8 hits total in May.

 

[mnfireman]

4 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

False.

Farmer has 3 XBH for the entire month of May.

He only has 8 hits total in May.

 

Julien has 1 XBH  for the entire month of May.

LH platoon option - Julien has 13 hits in 70 AB's, 79 PA's. 

RH platoon option - Farmer has 8 hits in 32 AB's, 34 PA's

This month, one half of this platoon is out-performing the other....

[Jocko87]

11 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I don't want react harshly to his current numbers. There is a lot of season left. I'm willing to see what happens to Cedric Mullins and Paul Goldschmidt over the course of the season. I'm willing to see what happens to Jorge Polanco and I'm willing to see what happens to Carlos Santana and Kyle Farmer. 

There are a lot of players around the league that are under performing... players that can pull it together and be a plus player by years end. Some won't of course but there is a lot more to go. 

I liked Farmer last year and I really didn't have a problem with him coming back but my problem is the same problem I had in the off-season and that is the overall roster commitment to the short side. 

The commitment of millions of dollars that we didn't have to Farmer, Margot and Santana just to keep Julien, Kirilloff and Wallner away from the left hander was only going to put you into this situation when things don't go as planned. 

Farmer has never been strong against right handed pitching, Margot has never been strong against right handed pitching, Santana hasn't been strong against right handed pitching lately. 

If they are not hitting left handed pitching... Oops... Because it's a long shot that his work against right handers is going to make it (pardon the pun) right. 

I don't have a problem with Farmer directly but I have a problem with his group of players that we overstaffed the roster with and this is the price you pay for it.   

As captain of the offseason Farmer fan club, this is where I'm at.  There are far larger disasters around the league and he's always been a slow starter.  Don't look at Randy Adrozerena, Corbin Carroll or "noted trade target" Valdy G.  It's not pretty.

There was never a case to be made that some sort of veteran was not going to be in this role for this team.  Some could make a case that you would have just cut the kids loose, but the Twins would never have done it.  And judging from the kids performance so far, they would have been wrong too.  The money isn't a factor either.  The proper way to looks at it is the difference of what would have been signed instead.  Tim Anderson for 4-5m?  No thanks. 

My main case for bringing him back was the floor and he still brings that even if he's not hitting.  I still expect him to get time in left field when the infield is at full tilt.  He's still got a couple of months to start hitting, nobody has to like it.  

Much like Vazquez, who has extra value simply by freeing Jeffers from the rigors of catching now so he's fresh for the postseason, Farmer is simply a solid glue player that will help prevent emergencies from tanking a month.  Rocco can depend on him not to forget how many outs there are or take out Kepler with fake hustle.  There is value in that.

The kids have to take the spot, and right now they aren't outside of Miranda.

[Mike Sixel]

33 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

As captain of the offseason Farmer fan club, this is where I'm at.  There are far larger disasters around the league and he's always been a slow starter.  Don't look at Randy Adrozerena, Corbin Carroll or "noted trade target" Valdy G.  It's not pretty.

There was never a case to be made that some sort of veteran was not going to be in this role for this team.  Some could make a case that you would have just cut the kids loose, but the Twins would never have done it.  And judging from the kids performance so far, they would have been wrong too.  The money isn't a factor either.  The proper way to looks at it is the difference of what would have been signed instead.  Tim Anderson for 4-5m?  No thanks. 

My main case for bringing him back was the floor and he still brings that even if he's not hitting.  I still expect him to get time in left field when the infield is at full tilt.  He's still got a couple of months to start hitting, nobody has to like it.  

Much like Vazquez, who has extra value simply by freeing Jeffers from the rigors of catching now so he's fresh for the postseason, Farmer is simply a solid glue player that will help prevent emergencies from tanking a month.  Rocco can depend on him not to forget how many outs there are or take out Kepler with fake hustle.  There is value in that.

The kids have to take the spot, and right now they aren't outside of Miranda.

There are worse players in the league isn't an argument to keep a bad player

[Jocko87]

29 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

There are worse players in the league isn't an argument to keep a bad player

That's not the argument I'm making.  He's still better than his current replacement options, even without hitting. 

The next time Martin collides with someone, we won't be so lucky as we have been.

[SwainZag]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

There are worse players in the league isn't an argument to keep a bad player

Farmer was worth 1.5+ WAR in each of the last 3 seasons, while playing 3+ positions.  Yes, through 101 PA he is struggling, there is no doubt about that.  He is certainly not playing up to his salary, but unless you could project he wasn't going to replicate what he has done in the past and fall off the table, what can ya do?  Cutting a veteran before May ends because they are struggling is something you just don't see teams do, especially those who have been recently valuable.

If they would have non-tendered Farmer, they would have been looking for a 1 year deal player to play utility man or banking on Brooks Lee to make the jump....which they chose Farmer. That being said, Farmer is almost certainly gone after this year.

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

False.

Farmer has 3 XBH for the entire month of May.

He only has 8 hits total in May.

 

Right.  I didn’t say May 1, I said his last 36 or so AB.  I checked a few days ago from his lowest point of the season he went on an 11 for 36 run with 6 doubles.  That was a few days ago and I don’t know how many AB he has since.  

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

As captain of the offseason Farmer fan club, this is where I'm at.  There are far larger disasters around the league and he's always been a slow starter.  Don't look at Randy Adrozerena, Corbin Carroll or "noted trade target" Valdy G.  It's not pretty.

There was never a case to be made that some sort of veteran was not going to be in this role for this team.  Some could make a case that you would have just cut the kids loose, but the Twins would never have done it.  And judging from the kids performance so far, they would have been wrong too.  The money isn't a factor either.  The proper way to looks at it is the difference of what would have been signed instead.  Tim Anderson for 4-5m?  No thanks. 

My main case for bringing him back was the floor and he still brings that even if he's not hitting.  I still expect him to get time in left field when the infield is at full tilt.  He's still got a couple of months to start hitting, nobody has to like it.  

Much like Vazquez, who has extra value simply by freeing Jeffers from the rigors of catching now so he's fresh for the postseason, Farmer is simply a solid glue player that will help prevent emergencies from tanking a month.  Rocco can depend on him not to forget how many outs there are or take out Kepler with fake hustle.  There is value in that.

The kids have to take the spot, and right now they aren't outside of Miranda.

I certainly wasn't a Captain of the offseason Farmer fan club. I was scared off by the membership dues. 

With that said... Farmer by himself was not a concern for me. I liked him on the team last year. I was a Private First Class in the Farmer getting a 2024 roster spot makes sense club.

Now... but to be clear. Not having a problem with Farmer individually doesn't mean I'm not a 4 Star General in the Farmer plus Santana plus Margot is a ****ing problem club.  

The money spent on Farmer matters when the club is cutting payroll... the money only doesn't matter if you are just going to spend it on Tim Anderson as you use for an example. The money spent on Polanco matters when you are cutting budget. The money doesn't matter if you are just going to spend the Polanco money on DeSclafini, Santana and Margot. 

What's that old saying. A million here and a million there and pretty soon you are talking about real money. Those three together add up to real money and those three together loosen those budget constraints above the Tim Anderson level. 

Your talk of the Farmer Floor does scare me a little. Especially when you combine the Farmer floor with your last sentence. 

When you type "outside of Miranda". It reads like Miranda is the exception and that you can't count on the kids. When I type Miranda... he would be an example of why you don't settle for the Farmer floor. Those are pretty dramatic differences in sentiment and the opposite point of view towards young talent.

Even if Miranda is an exception... that exception is here and we will have to send him down If we remain healthy when Lewis is called up because the Farmer floor is just fine. 

We could keep Miranda up and send Julien down to make some room for Lewis but that makes the Farmer floor full time at 2B and that creates another problem.

Farmer doesn't handcuff to Castro or Santana... those two hit left handers best. After you look up and down the roster you come to the realization that Farmer only handcuffs to Julien. That ties Farmer to Julien... So... if Julien is sent down... Farmer is either the guy entirely or not the guy at all as Castro becomes the full time 2B with Julien out. Farmer isn't the savior to a Julien injury or demotion... he becomes pointless without Julien.  

Jeffers is the DH handcuff against lefties. Unless Farmer plays OF as you suggest... then you can handcuff him to Larnach or Kepler but... isn't that Margot's job? Farmer only ties to Julien. 

As I bring all this crap up... it's only temporary because injuries will change everything eventually and that's why they most likely won't cut Farmer, Margot or Santana to make room for Lewis. So Miranda... just might be sent down. 

Farmer has historically not hit RH pitching. 32 AB's a month is not going to rapidly repair the optics of his numbers. In the meantime... Much like the farmers I hear complaining every morning drinking coffee at the Nordhem Cafe in Karlstad... there will be continuous Farmer complaints on TD. 

 

[USAFChief]

6 hours ago, Brandon said:

Right.  I didn’t say May 1, I said his last 36 or so AB.  I checked a few days ago from his lowest point of the season he went on an 11 for 36 run with 6 doubles.  That was a few days ago and I don’t know how many AB he has since.  

He has 35 PAs in May. He has 3 XBHs in those 35 PAs. Not "5 or 6."

 

[DJL44]

9 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Don't look at Randy Adrozerena, Corbin Carroll or "noted trade target" Valdy G.  It's not pretty.

My mind read those aloud in Bob Casey's voice.

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I certainly wasn't a Captain of the offseason Farmer fan club. I was scared off by the membership dues. 

With that said... Farmer by himself was not a concern for me. I liked him on the team last year. I was a Private First Class in the Farmer getting a 2024 roster spot makes sense club.

Now... but to be clear. Not having a problem with Farmer individually doesn't mean I'm not a 4 Star General in the Farmer plus Santana plus Margot is a ****ing problem club.  

The money spent on Farmer matters when the club is cutting payroll... the money only doesn't matter if you are just going to spend it on Tim Anderson as you use for an example. The money spent on Polanco matters when you are cutting budget. The money doesn't matter if you are just going to spend the Polanco money on DeSclafini, Santana and Margot. 

What's that old saying. A million here and a million there and pretty soon you are talking about real money. Those three together add up to real money and those three together loosen those budget constraints above the Tim Anderson level. 

Your talk of the Farmer Floor does scare me a little. Especially when you combine the Farmer floor with your last sentence. 

When you type "outside of Miranda". It reads like Miranda is the exception and that you can't count on the kids. When I type Miranda... he would be an example of why you don't settle for the Farmer floor. Those are pretty dramatic differences in sentiment and the opposite point of view towards young talent.

Even if Miranda is an exception... that exception is here and we will have to send him down If we remain healthy when Lewis is called up because the Farmer floor is just fine. 

We could keep Miranda up and send Julien down to make some room for Lewis but that makes the Farmer floor full time at 2B and that creates another problem.

Farmer doesn't handcuff to Castro or Santana... those two hit left handers best. After you look up and down the roster you come to the realization that Farmer only handcuffs to Julien. That ties Farmer to Julien... So... if Julien is sent down... Farmer is either the guy entirely or not the guy at all as Castro becomes the full time 2B with Julien out. Farmer isn't the savior to a Julien injury or demotion... he becomes pointless without Julien.  

Jeffers is the DH handcuff against lefties. Unless Farmer plays OF as you suggest... then you can handcuff him to Larnach or Kepler but... isn't that Margot's job? Farmer only ties to Julien. 

As I bring all this crap up... it's only temporary because injuries will change everything eventually and that's why they most likely won't cut Farmer, Margot or Santana to make room for Lewis. So Miranda... just might be sent down. 

Farmer has historically not hit RH pitching. 32 AB's a month is not going to rapidly repair the optics of his numbers. In the meantime... Much like the farmers I hear complaining every morning drinking coffee at the Nordhem Cafe in Karlstad... there will be continuous Farmer complaints on TD. 

 

I don't disagree and it's the combine lack of performance of the aforementioned vets and kids that makes this an issue. Were it a more normal distribution of near career norms it would be easy. Wallner, for example, would stick out as the problem that needs fixed. With so many struggles, you can't flush everything.

It's also temporary because we have those career norms. Santana was gleefully pronounced well done after three at bats but is somewhat closer to expected. Two bad months isn't always cooked. If an entire major league baseball team to perform to projections, it would be a record.

Why does Lewis just automatically get a spot? All the guy does is hit everything out of the park. Julien isn't far behind him in that esteem, he's built a ton of credibility in a short time. With the defense so much improved, he's getting extra reps to get him going. If neither he or Farmer are hitting, Eddy gets the at bat's.  If his defense was still a disaster, Farmer gets the reps and Eddy might be in AAA.  Farmer provides the security blanket.

There is very little reason to expect a different growth curve for a Brooks Lee although he should adjust faster than most. Royce is the outlier and the Farmers of the world set the table for everyone. It's not always steak, but we get fed.

If you leave the crops to the kids, we might all starve.

[Riverbrian]

46 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Royce is the outlier and the Farmers of the world set the table for everyone. It's not always steak, but we get fed.

If you leave the crops to the kids, we might all starve.

The Kids eat less

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

He has 35 PAs in May. He has 3 XBHs in those 35 PAs. Not "5 or 6."

 

I am sorry you can’t seem to read.  I’m not going to keep this up.  

[TopGunn#22]

There is no other way to describe the roster decisions of Vasquez, Margot and Farmer as nothing but a disaster.  Especially when the FO cut $30 million from the payroll and decided to keep these guys.  Santana has provided decent defense at 1B (the dropped throw from Duran considered) and some recent power, but I would really rather be looking at a Kirilloff/Miranda platoon and have pocketed the Santana money as well.

The Twins roster is still a work in progress.  I'd love to find out if Miami is still desperate for a competent major league catcher who can handle a pitching staff but can't hit his weight.  Nobody will want Margot and as Riverbrian pointed out, Farmer is handcuffed to Julien.  If Julien ever starts hitting, and I can't imagine Julien continuing to look this bad, meaning a regression to his mean should be coming sometime, Famer's time should be coming to an end. 

It's like our bullpen.  When it's all said and done, most of the veteran additions we made will probably pitch themselves off the roster and a guy like Varland may find his way back up to the Twins firmly entrenched in a bullpen role.  Guys like Stewart, Funderburk and Acalala will probably also fill back in as replacements for these failing bullpen vets.  The failed vet bullpen signings aren't as bad as the Vasquez, Margot, Farmer, Santana money (especially Vasquez at $10 million) but I'm just pointing out the obvious by "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" these moves.  Hindsight is ALWAYS an eagle-eyed 20/10.