Dodgers 4, Twins 2: Resurgent Ober and Buxton's Heroics Not Enough Against Dodgers

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

If Rocco had left Ober in and he got clobbered by the top of the order, many of you would be squawking that he should have gone to the pen.   It's easy to second guess.  Also, when the other team scores only 4 runs you should have a chance at a win.  It's the players not the manager.

This. Also, you'd not realize they are a whooping two games under right now . 

[joefish]

Really boring baseball. Pathetic. Bad swings. Bad takes. Missing pitches right down the middle of the plate. 

Hard to watch. Maybe a road trip will help. Me.

 

[joefish]

Go T'ins.

[TwinsDr2021]

35 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

If Rocco had left Ober in and he got clobbered by the top of the order, many of you would be squawking that he should have gone to the pen.   It's easy to second guess.  Also, when the other team scores only 4 runs you should have a chance at a win.  It's the players not the manager.

I highly doubt your statement is true, most just wanted Ober to get a chance to start the inning, and if Ohtani gets a hard hit and they pull him for Okert I don't think people would have complained and if he would been left in long enough to get clobbered, then yes there would have been complaints as well.

[TwinsDr2021]

33 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

This. Also, you'd not realize they are a whooping two games under right now . 

On a daily site things get critiqued more than if you are just checking in at the end of each week. Yes, they are only two games under .500, but are 1 -5 in the last 6 games, and since the 2 - 0 start have total hits of 4, 3, 11,  7,  2, 3 (that is 30 hits), and have K'd 12, 8, 6, 15, 14, 7(that is 62 times, which is twice as many as hits)

I and I hope everybody else wants every Twin to do well, but it doesn't make you a horrible person or fan to question, criticize, and ask questions. I mean I did spend multiple hours watching barely watchable games two of the last three days.

So yes they are only two games under .500 but how long will that last if things don't change?

[IndyTwinsFan]

59 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

If Rocco had left Ober in and he got clobbered by the top of the order, many of you would be squawking that he should have gone to the pen.   It's easy to second guess.  Also, when the other team scores only 4 runs you should have a chance at a win.  It's the players not the manager.

Agree strongly with the last statement in the post.  In the end, it's not the fault of the front office and/or Rocco for the poor results thus far, it's the players themselves (with an exception or two) not playing to anywhere close to what they should be or definitely are capable of. 

That this team has largely been this way since before Falvine and Rocco arrived, in my opinion, goes largely unnoticed.  Not any kind of excuse, just an observation on my part.

That being said, I wish I had a good answer for all our problems now, but I don't. 

[Mike Sixel]

15 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

On a daily site things get critiqued more than if you are just checking in at the end of each week. Yes, they are only two games under .500, but are 1 -5 in the last 6 games, and since the 2 - 0 start have total hits of 4, 3, 11,  7,  2, 3 (that is 30 hits), and have K'd 12, 8, 6, 15, 14, 7(that is 62 times, which is twice as many as hits)

I and I hope everybody else wants every Twin to do well, but it doesn't make you a horrible person or fan to question, criticize, and ask questions. I mean I did spend multiple hours watching barely watchable games two of the last three days.

So yes they are only two games under .500 but how long will that last if things don't change?

I have no issue with criticism at all. 

[jkcarew]

So, if Rocco leaves Ober in, the Twins win 2-1??

I’m on record with the opinion that Rocco is a poor in-game manager. Still, blaming this one on Rocco smacks of desperation. The Twins had 3 hits. They barely had any runner achieve scoring position. If we’re going to blame him for this one, we’ll have to blame him for every single loss in a season, which is ridiculous even if you think he’s the worst in the league.

Given Ober’s last result, given that this was effectively his first start of the season, given that he had given up some rockets for outs (one of which bailed him out of a developing mess with a double play)…I can at least kinda understand what Rocco was thinking on this one. I probably would have left him in, but IMO, this was about a million miles from being one of Rocco’s worst pitching moves.

Score some runs.

 

[TwinsDr2021]

33 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Still, blaming this one on Rocco smacks of desperation.

Blaming the loss on him and criticizing him for the move(s) he made are two different things. I am not blaming the loss on him, I blame that on the pathetic at bats so many of the players took. I blame him and the hitters on making the game hard to watch.

[bean5302]

56 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

So, if Rocco leaves Uber in, the Twins win 2-1??...

 

Dobnak is not on the 26 man roster and didn't pitch at all last night. :D

[bean5302]

Another empty stadium experience last night. It wasn't "great" weather, but I've been to games where it's been quite a bit worse. Vendor staff were getting big cuts in the 4th inning. I think the fans who were there were pretty engaged though. There was some heart.

Those extremely expensive to produce Twins fridge magnets were gone by the time I got to the game at start time. Can't be handing those $0.50 giveaways out to just anybody who buys a ticket, you know.

No good TV contract. No fans in the seats despite population density increasing in the area. Giveaway fails. Weak season ticket holder benefits. Pre/post game entertainment options around the stadium struggling. Skyrocketing parking prices and transportation issues rising. The struggles in fan engagement are impacting the payroll and player quality on the team. Dave St. Peter is increasingly looking like the weakest link in the organization to me.

Walking a couple blocks from the stadium can get you street event parking at $3.00/hr. Worked out well for me!

[Shaitan]

If you're going to say a play is so unique you've never seen it before, it would be nice if you included a link. 

[Larry Janisewski]

5 hours ago, MinnInPa said:

Twins don't have real problems other than not being able to hit Right handed Pitchers or left handed Pitchers.. other than that looking great.   SMH

3 hits again!!!! Not getting it done. At least strike outs were in single digits.

[h2oface]

10 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

As I see the twins batting averages, it is frustrating when I see that (Spencer) Steer was the national League player of the week. 

Let's hope those bats can warm up quickly and turn this around.

...,. and don't look and see what Berrios is doing so far, while we still wait and wait for some guy named Martin to get a MLB hit, and a three named pitcher to actually make the team. But the Mahle trade was even worse. 

[h2oface]

4 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

If Rocco had left Ober in and he got clobbered by the top of the order, many of you would be squawking that he should have gone to the pen.   It's easy to second guess.  Also, when the other team scores only 4 runs you should have a chance at a win.  It's the players not the manager.

No, I don't think those people would. They would admit they liked the other decision, to go with Ober cruising and 68 pitches for the 6th, just like you are admitting you liked the decision that was made to replace him, even though it proved to be a choice that made people wonder what could have been, and the lead was given up. Pitchers also have to perform to the game, and not complain about the runs scored (not that they are, but fans are). We were ahead by one with 12 outs to go. The score could have been 10-9, and still the pitchers would have been given the job to hold a one run lead with 12 outs to go. I heard that this bullpen is supposed to be the very best in the game this year.......

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, CRF said:

Pulling Ober was absolutely the wrong move...and it bit us on the butt right away. I don't like very many of the moves that Baldelli makes, and his decisions tend to backfire a lot more than they work. We're going to be in the soup once LA leaves town and we go on the road to Det and Balt. We could be out of the race by the end of April. 

More than likely we’re done on April 9th……ONE GAME over .500 on August 11th last year………… We have a bit of time to rebound!!

[bean5302]

AL Central Ranks:
Starters
KCR 10 GS, 62.0 IP, 1.60 ERA, 2.82 FIP, 3.16 xFIP = 1.6 fWAR
CLE 10 GS, 50.0 IP, 2.70 ERA, 3.34 FIP, 3.67 xFIP = 1.1 fWAR
CHW 10 GS, 51.2 IP, 3.66 ERA, 3.99 FIP, 4.40 xFIP = 0.9 fWAR
DET 10 GS, 53.1 IP, 4.89 ERA, 4.85 FIP, 4.43 xFIP = 0.3 fWAR
MIN 8 GS, 38.1 IP, 5.17 ERA, 4.65 FIP, 4.03 xFIP = 0.3 fWAR

Relievers
CLE 38.0 IP, 1.18 ERA, 2.82 FIP, 3.87 xFIP = 0.6 fWAR
DET 39.0 IP, 1.38 ERA, 3.70 FIP, 3.91 xFIP = 0.3 fWAR
MIN 31.2 IP, 1.71 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 3.70 xFIP = 0.1 fWAR
KCR 27.0 IP, 4.67 ERA, 4.13 FIP, 5.45 xFIP = 0.1 fWAR
CHW 33.1 IP, 4.86 ERA, 5.82 FIP, 4.94 xFIP = (0.5) fWAR

Batting
CLE .268/.329/.402 .731 OPS wRC+ 115 = 2.0 fWAR
KCR .245/.303/.432 .735 OPS wRC+ 107 = 2.1 fWAR
DET .214/.290/.334 .624 OPS wRC+ 83 = 0.8 fWAR
MIN .181/.289/.288 .577 OPS wRC+ 74 = 0.3 fWAR
CHW .190/.267/.303 .570 OPS wRC+ 68 = (0.3) fWAR
 

[JD-TWINS]

22 minutes ago, h2oface said:

No, I don't think those people would. They would admit they liked the other decision, to go with Ober cruising and 68 pitches for the 6th, just like you are admitting you liked the decision that was made to replace him, even though it proved to be a choice that made people wonder what could have been, and the lead was given up. Pitchers also have to perform to the game, and not complain about the runs scored (not that they are, but fans are). We were ahead by one with 12 outs to go. The score could have been 10-9, and still the pitchers would have been given the job to hold a one run lead with 12 outs to go. I heard that this bullpen is supposed to be the very best in the game this year.......

You have a competent left hander in the Pen & 2 of the Top 2-3 left handed hitters in the game coming (Seager is in the mix) up in Ohtani & Freeman. Absolutely the right move to not let a guy with “OK stuff” that relies a bunch on location and fooling hitters, to face these two a 3rd time in an hour and 15 minutes.

Okert gave up one run to Today’s version of murderer’s row………gotta score runs!!

Jackson gave up the 3rd & 4th runs…….if Ober gets through the inning facing 4-5 guys and no runs, they still lose.

[bean5302]

37 minutes ago, h2oface said:

...,. and don't look and see what Berrios is doing so far, while we still wait and wait for some guy named Martin to get a MLB hit, and a three named pitcher to actually make the team. But the Mahle trade was even worse. 

I keep up with Berrios throughout the season. He's long past being outside the Twins' original control at this point, but I'm glad to see him rebounding from that awful first full year he had in Toronto. I was never on board with the Berrios is an ace! crowd here, but I always appreciated him for being so solid. I'm sure Toronto is happy they made that contract to him.

[jorgenswest]

We really think it would have been a good idea that Ober pitch to Ohtani and Freeman a third time? They were 2-3 with a sacrifice fly previously and one of the outs was a sac fly with a .760 xBA. The other out was a line drive out. No reasonable manager should expect that Ober would get through those two batters the third time around without having success the first two times around. Unfortunately the lefty the front office provided him probably isn’t a pitcher a contender would want in their bullpen. 

[TwinsDr2021]

22 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

You have a competent left hander in the Pen & 2 of the Top 2-3 left handed hitters in the game coming (Seager is in the mix) up in Ohtani & Freeman. Absolutely the right move to not let a guy with “OK stuff” that relies a bunch on location and fooling hitters, to face these two a 3rd time in an hour and 15 minutes.

Okert gave up one run to Today’s version of murderer’s row………gotta score runs!!

Jackson gave up the 3rd & 4th runs…….if Ober gets through the inning facing 4-5 guys and no runs, they still lose.

Correct me if I am wrong but both Ohtani and Freeman came up to bat two more times and one of those times faced a 36 year old right handed relief pitcher with the game tied?

[IndianaTwin]

16 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Among the other questionable manager decisions, don't forget burning Jax with a 2 run deficit. 

 

It's actually pretty out of character for Rocco to use one of his higher-leverage relievers with a deficit, but I assume it had something to do with usage. Before last night, Jax had thrown one inning since March 30. That was on April 3.    

 

(As a preemptive comment for if Stewart gets used tonight in a deficit, he's also only pitched one inning since March 30, also on April 3.)

[h2oface]

26 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Correct me if I am wrong but both Ohtani and Freeman came up to bat two more times and one of those times faced a 36 year old right handed relief pitcher with the game tied?

Almost. Jackson had already immediately given up a first batter dinger on a hanging slider meatball that didn't slide at 85 mph right down the middle on a 3-2 count to Outman, a lefty, so by the time LH batting Ohtani had come up to hit his homer, lefty Trammell had struck out, and RH batting Betts lined out, and the Twins were already behind one, now. So Jackson was brought in to face L,L,R for sure, and finished with L,L, so 4 out of 5 LH batters, entering with the game tied. Seems a little odd, eh?

[IndianaTwin]

58 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

You have a competent left hander in the Pen & 2 of the Top 2-3 left handed hitters in the game coming (Seager is in the mix) up in Ohtani & Freeman. Absolutely the right move to not let a guy with “OK stuff” that relies a bunch on location and fooling hitters, to face these two a 3rd time in an hour and 15 minutes.

Okert gave up one run to Today’s version of murderer’s row………gotta score runs!!

Jackson gave up the 3rd & 4th runs…….if Ober gets through the inning facing 4-5 guys and no runs, they still lose.

Not to mention having a phenomenally rested bullpen, which had thrown a total of 45 pitches in the previous three days, thanks to an off day and a rainout.

I get the argument to keep Ober in the game, given how he was doing. But after his last outing, I also get the idea of pulling him with what had to have felt like a positive vibe. 

[mikelink45]

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

...,. and don't look and see what Berrios is doing so far, while we still wait and wait for some guy named Martin to get a MLB hit, and a three named pitcher to actually make the team. But the Mahle trade was even worse. 

I know others will wonder 2 - 0 1.45  Not bad.

[jorgenswest]

On 4/9/2024 at 4:23 AM, Riverbrian said:

BTW... Dave Roberts is also left right fixated. Roberts and the Dodgers have always been a platoon heavy team. However... did anyone notice the difference. The Dodgers started 6 left handed hitters against Ober. The Twins threw two left handed pitchers in relief and Dave Roberts only pinch hit once and it happened IN THE NINTH when Taylor hit for Trammell. (Taylor hitting for Taylor). 

I did notice that when behind Roberts did pinch hit earlier in the game today. 

[Riverbrian]

18 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I did notice that when behind Roberts did pinch hit earlier in the game today. 

No doubt that Roberts plays the left right game and I'm sure Roberts has pinch hit early in the game before.

In this situation. Despite 2024 small sample stats saying differently. Gavin Lux is the better offensive option over Rojas... although I do question what can be expected from Lux entering the game with two outs and the bottom of the order needing to string stuff together. 

The Twins and Dodgers never call me for advice.  

[Riverbrian]

44 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I did notice that when behind Roberts did pinch hit earlier in the game today. 

Regardless of the result in today's game (Different Game Thread I know)

I was happy to see Julien and Kirilloff stay in to face Vesia today. 

Miranda could have easily pinch hit for Julien in that AB. Unless the Dodgers were going to break out their long man Yarbrough it was going to be right handers the rest of the game. 

I like Gray area instead of Black and White decisions. It feels more managerial.  

Julien OPS against left handers is currently 1.750 which I'm sure is sustainable.