Rhys Hoskins

[mnfireman]

5 hours ago, darin617 said:

Zero chance he signs with the Twins. He can easily sign a 1 year 20M contract or a 3 year 55-60M contract on the market now. 

I would love to see Hoskins in MN and unless they all of the sudden find a bunch of money under the couch cushions I can't see it happening.

As I have said, I am not a Hoskins fan. That being said, the national media outlets figure he gets a 1 yr/$14 MM deal. That is affordable, above that not so much.

[miracleb]

I Keep repeating....Twins are not getting a 1st baseman or DH....those will be filled internally.  Now that they have announce a lower payroll, this rings even louder......

[Dave Lemke]

16 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Don’t think you can hang it completely on the shoulder. He was really bad right from the beginning…well before he missed any time with the shoulder. But the main point is, given the mixed/short track record, and his health, in 2024 he shouldn’t be considered as a first-choice at any position for a team that truly wants to compete for a pennant, IMO. Depth piece only in 2024…hopefully.

The shoulder was hurt in spring training. How much earlier was he bad????

[DJL44]

Good fit for the lineup. They need one more bat and more more top end pitcher. They'll really need a bat if they trade Kepler. Hoskins for a 1 year $15M deal would be a lot better than when they spent $11M on Joey Gallo last year.

[stringer bell]

For the record, I don't think the Twins should pursue Hoskins unless his price tag drops to seven figures and he's willing to sign a one-year deal. He's a first baseman only (hasn't played outfield since before the pandemic) and certainly bat-first and he's coming off a significant injury. 

[Twinsgypsy]

There better choices out there than Hoskins.  He is not worth the money that he wants and mutli-year deal for him is definitely a huge idiotic mistake.

[Brandon]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:54 PM, jkcarew said:

Last year, Miranda established himself as a well-below-average AAA hitter. Maybe he figures it out eventually, but he’s not knocking on the 2024 door in any way shape or form…and seems highly questionable even as a prospect given how far the bat is from where it would need to play at 1B and/or DH. The only current motivation to ‘clear a path’ for Miranda would be to save money.

Or maybe the shoulder injury was the problem.  

 

[tony&rodney]

I don't think that Jose Miranda was ever fully healthy in 2023. The Twins will want to see what he can do when healed and at full strength. Don't forget that Miranda hit very well in the minor leagues and in large stretches in his rookie year. A huge unknown for Minnesota is how Kirilloff and Miranda look when the bell rings.

[chpettit19]

I'm surprised so many people think there's no room for Rhys Hoskins in this lineup. The Twins couldn't use a 125 OPS+ bat? He's not the elite guy I'd prefer, but on a 1 year deal between 10-15 mil he'd be very useful. Julien and Jeffers were the only 2 qualified hitters the Twins had last year who topped a 125 OPS+. Julien is now set to see if he can make the adjustments to the adjustments in his sophomore year. Some in this very thread think Miranda is toast because of his injury plagued sophomore season so I'd think they're not sold on Julien being a 130 OPS+ guy for sure yet.

Lewis and Wallner can be added as guys who topped 125 OPS+, but they played 58 and 76 games respectively. If you're convinced they're proven as 150 and 139 OPS+ guys, cool, 90+ wins here we come! Houston already exploited Wallner's holes in the playoffs so he's really going to have to show he can make the adjustment to the adjustment next year. 

Hoskins 111 OPS+ in 2019 was his career low. Otherwise he's pretty much guaranteed to be 125 or higher. You guys have way more faith in this offense than I do if you think Hoskins isn't worth a shot on a 1 year deal.

As for the injury, Lewis had the same injury twice and turned out alright. It's not like Hoskins has been relying on his pure athleticism for his success. And he was shown during the playoffs last year running the bases and taking BP full speed. The knee surgery from last spring training shouldn't be a concern anymore. 

If the Twins can get Hoskins, they absolutely should. I'd prefer better, but he's still an improvement on this lineup.

[Road trip]

59 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm surprised so many people think there's no room for Rhys Hoskins in this lineup. The Twins couldn't use a 125 OPS+ bat? He's not the elite guy I'd prefer, but on a 1...

Room in the lineup?  Yes, there is likely room, especially if Buxton plays the field instead of DH-ing (I'm a dreamer..).  Room in the (reduced) payroll?  I fear not.  

If we have to save funds (unfortunately), I'd try to save at 1B, where Kirilloff, Miranda, an untested minor league guy (Severino), or a non roster spring training contract (Hosmer? Wil Myers?) could potentially give us coverage on the cheap.  And frankly I don't want to block Kirilloff if he returns healthy. 

If we spend money on Hoskins, it means we are getting by on additional unproven players in the starting rotation or bullpen, because payroll space is short.  I'd rather spend the money on pitching. 

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Road trip said:

Room in the lineup?  Yes, there is likely room, especially if Buxton plays the field instead of DH-ing (I'm a dreamer..).  Room in the (reduced) payroll?  I fear not.  

If we have to save funds (unfortunately), I'd try to save at 1B, where Kirilloff, Miranda, an untested minor league guy (Severino), or a non roster spring training contract (Hosmer? Wil Myers?) could potentially give us coverage on the cheap.  And frankly I don't want to block Kirilloff if he returns healthy. 

If we spend money on Hoskins, it means we are getting by on additional unproven players in the starting rotation or bullpen, because payroll space is short.  I'd rather spend the money on pitching. 

Do you think they're going to actually spend on pitching? Isn't it more likely they trade for an affordable guy like they've done with Maeda, Gray, Paddack, Mahle, and Lopez?

If they can't afford to add a top 4 hitter to their lineup for 10-15 mil while trading at least one 10 mil veteran (don't we all assume Polanco, Kepler, and/or Vazquez are/is gone?), and not really spending on pitching they're taking a step back next year and better watch out for Cleveland and Detroit taking the division.

[nicksaviking]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:32 PM, ashbury said:

The annual pageant of being "in on" this or that player who is clearly out of our little-town team's budget. "Darn, we just missed. And gave him a competitive offer, too."

We're still doing that bit after signing Correa and Donaldson?

I know everyone is taking up the announced lower payroll as a weapon to bash in the front office's brains in again, but they still have money to spend. It's not enough for a #2 starter, which will have to be via trade if they want one. So they would either have to be throwing money at a #5 starter, which I'd hope they've learned to avoid doing by now, or it will have to be a 1B or OF.

Hoskins seems like one of the very few logical targets for this team, unless they actually go 20M or so less in payroll than they already indicated they'd go.

[Road trip]

15 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Do you think they're going to actually spend on pitching? Isn't it more likely they trade for an affordable guy like they've done with Maeda, Gray, Paddack, Mahle, and Lopez?

If they can't afford to add a top 4 hitter to their lineup for 10-15 mil while trading at least one 10 mil veteran (don't we all assume Polanco, Kepler, and/or Vazquez are/is gone?), and not really spending on pitching they're taking a step back next year and better watch out for Cleveland and Detroit taking the division.

No, if I'm honest, I don't think they will spend big on pitching.  They'll get a veteran bullpen guy, relatively cheap, essentially replacing Pagan's salary slot.  They might sign or trade for a #3 starter hoping they will turn him into a #2.  More likely they sign a #4, hoping he can become a #3.  

I agree that one of Polanco or Kepler is gone, and possibly both.  Possibly add Farmer to the list too.  Vazquez, I sort of hope they find someone to take his salary but I suspect most of the league thinks his bat is cooked.  Most catchers age badly, and he isn't young.

I mean, it seems apparent that they intend to cut salary.  I hate it, but also understand it if they can't get some kind of stable and predictable revenue from local TV.

I don't think they are surrendering, but do think it is going to be more of a "buy a lottery ticket and hope to get lucky" kind of year.  I expect them to bet on the health of Correa and Buxton (what choice do they have?).  I expect them to bet on improvement from the young bats, of which there are a large number.  Same with pitching, where they will hope the youngsters improve, and they mostly stay healthy?  An awful lot of things will have to break right for the Twins to be a serious pennant contender next year... but it could happen.  Of course with this plan, it is at least equally likely that they win about 80 games and finish 2nd or 3rd in the Central.  

I've probably been a Twins fan for too long.  Hope is in short supply.  At least I'm not a Vikings fan 😆

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, Road trip said:

No, if I'm honest, I don't think they will spend big on pitching.  They'll get a veteran bullpen guy, relatively cheap, essentially replacing Pagan's salary slot.  They might sign or trade for a #3 starter hoping they will turn him into a #2.  More likely they sign a #4, hoping he can become a #3.  

I agree that one of Polanco or Kepler is gone, and possibly both.  Possibly add Farmer to the list too.  Vazquez, I sort of hope they find someone to take his salary but I suspect most of the league thinks his bat is cooked.  Most catchers age badly, and he isn't young.

I mean, it seems apparent that they intend to cut salary.  I hate it, but also understand it if they can't get some kind of stable and predictable revenue from local TV.

I don't think they are surrendering, but do think it is going to be more of a "buy a lottery ticket and hope to get lucky" kind of year.  I expect them to bet on the health of Correa and Buxton (what choice do they have?).  I expect them to bet on improvement from the young bats, of which there are a large number.  Same with pitching, where they will hope the youngsters improve, and they mostly stay healthy?  An awful lot of things will have to break right for the Twins to be a serious pennant contender next year... but it could happen.  Of course with this plan, it is at least equally likely that they win about 80 games and finish 2nd or 3rd in the Central.  

I've probably been a Twins fan for too long.  Hope is in short supply.  At least I'm not a Vikings fan 😆

They've already "cut salary." The losses to free agency has already dropped them below the range that was reported. If they then trade any of the "expensive" vets they have even more space. All I'm trying to say is that they should be able to afford Hoskins at 15 mil even with a reduced payroll.

It's a shame to have the excitement of their first playoff wins in 19 years, and have Target Field rocking, and then immediately respond by announcing payroll cuts and setting the table for a possible drop from the top of an already horrid division. Hopefully they have some tricks up their sleeves. I'm not handing the division to Detroit or Cleveland yet, but the FO better do some real work before opening day if they want to keep their top spot locked up. Certainly aren't making it easy on themselves.

[nicksaviking]

37 minutes ago, Road trip said:

No, if I'm honest, I don't think they will spend big on pitching.  They'll get a veteran bullpen guy, relatively cheap, essentially replacing Pagan's salary slot.  They might sign or trade for a #3 starter hoping they will turn him into a #2.  More likely they sign a #4, hoping he can become a #3.  

I agree that one of Polanco or Kepler is gone, and possibly both.  Possibly add Farmer to the list too.  Vazquez, I sort of hope they find someone to take his salary but I suspect most of the league thinks his bat is cooked.  Most catchers age badly, and he isn't young.

I mean, it seems apparent that they intend to cut salary.  I hate it, but also understand it if they can't get some kind of stable and predictable revenue from local TV.

I think this is where everyone is getting lost. They have about 15M to spend in free agency. Less than normal, but they have fewer holes to fill than normal. If they lose Kepler, they'd have 25M, Polanco, 35M and Farmer, 41M. That's overkill, there's only a couple of logical spots to fill in free agency. And it absolutely shouldn't be a back end starter, they need better than that, which means starting pitching needs to come via trade, as is typically the case with this club.

What free agent are people bemoaning not being able to get? Yamamoto and Bellinger were never coming here, but if they desperately wanted them, they could even fit them into the payroll and still meet their lower goal.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Road trip said:

've probably been a Twins fan for too long.  Hope is in short supply. 

This.

What we all know for certain is that we actually don't have any idea at all of where the Twins roster budget will finally rest. We have expectations, beliefs, and logical conclusions. My guess is anywhere from $100-140 million, which puts the current squad as it sits now right in the middle at $120M. Other than that , we hope ....

[Road trip]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I think this is where everyone is getting lost. They have about 15M to spend in free agency. Less than normal, but they have fewer holes to fill than normal. If they lose

I guess my point is *IF* the Twins have significant money to spend, I hope it goes to pitching.  I'd rather roll with Miranda/Kirilloff/Bargain Bin at 1B than rely on Woods Richardson/Sands/Bargain Bin in the starting rotation.   We will have to trust youth someplace, and I think the young hitters are ahead of the young starting pitchers.

And believe me, I hope my pessimism regarding next year's payroll is wrong... but that lost TV revenue is really a budget hole.  I don't know how you do a short term fix for the missing 55M revenue stream without payroll budget cuts.

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Road trip said:

I guess my point is *IF* the Twins have significant money to spend, I hope it goes to pitching.  I'd rather roll with Miranda/Kirilloff/Bargain Bin at 1B than rely on Woods Richardson/Sands/Bargain Bin in the starting rotation.   We will have to trust youth someplace, and I think the young hitters are ahead of the young starting pitchers.

And believe me, I hope my pessimism regarding next year's payroll is wrong... but that lost TV revenue is really a budget hole.  I don't know how you do a short term fix for the missing 55M revenue stream without payroll budget cuts.

What free agent pitching? Almost all the available arms are back of the rotation types. If this team pushes Joe Ryan to the #2 starter role instead of trading for one, I'm going to be very disappointed. Only way to replace Sonny Gray is to trade for a new pitcher.

[Twinsgypsy]

21 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Do you think they're going to actually spend on pitching? Isn't it more likely they trade for an affordable guy like they've done with Maeda, Gray, Paddack, Mahle, and Lopez?

If they can't afford to add a top 4 hitter to their lineup for 10-15 mil while trading at least one 10 mil veteran (don't we all assume Polanco, Kepler, and/or Vazquez are/is gone?), and not really spending on pitching they're taking a step back next year and better watch out for Cleveland and Detroit taking the division.

I think you are spot on in. If they need to spend money on a free agent they should do it on pitching if they are unable to work out another off season trade for a good pitcher. I think they need to take a good look at the pitchers that Marlins are open to trading for one of their position needs where we are dealing from a position of strength..  After the successful trade we made for Lopez where it was a WIN-WIN  for both parties it helps when talking about another potential trade.

[ashbury]

8 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

We're still doing that bit after signing Correa and Donaldson?

Li'l bit of a cheap shot, I'll admit, and the current FO has never quite plumbed the depth's of Terry Ryan's self-pitying "sometimes you can't get free agents to take your money".  But Correa and Donaldson, even at their prices, both in retrospect look like maybe weren't being competed for due to perceived warts on their overall resume.  And Donaldson in particular proved to be expensive to get rid of; so would Correa although the situations aren't similar and it hasn't and probably won't ever come anywhere close to that for Carlos. So I'm not sure I'd use either of them (or Christian Vazquez for that matter) to deny that when a free agent is highly sought after and competed for, the Twins won't come out on top.  Yet they want at least a little of that PR love that comes from being "in on" a player.

[Greglw3]

On 12/7/2023 at 11:09 AM, baul0010 said:

I think it makes a lot of sense, but I don't see that being feasible unless the Twins unload Polanco and Kepler.  I think if we were to shed payroll, add Hoskins, and make some trades for starting pitching we would be in very good shape for 2024.

Totally agree!

[Greglw3]

On 12/11/2023 at 5:04 PM, chpettit19 said:

Do you think they're going to actually spend on pitching? Isn't it more likely they trade for an affordable guy like they've done with Maeda, Gray, Paddack, Mahle, and Lopez?

If they can't afford to add a top 4 hitter to their lineup for 10-15 mil while trading at least one 10 mil veteran (don't we all assume Polanco, Kepler, and/or Vazquez are/is gone?), and not really spending on pitching they're taking a step back next year and better watch out for Cleveland and Detroit taking the division.

And the Royals are quietly being very aggressive as well, so far running circles around Falvey.

For one year and one year only, Falvey acted like he wanted to win in the offseason, when he went out and got 90 HR in 3 players in Schoop, C.J. Cron and Nelson Cruz.

Now, he cedes the best players to other teams, largely and then shops the bargain bin.

His saving grace and biggest accomplishment is developing a farm system that could carry the Twins a long way!

[nicksaviking]

22 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

And the Royals are quietly being very aggressive as well, so far running circles around Falvey.

For one year and one year only, Falvey acted like he wanted to win in the offseason, when he went out and got 90 HR in 3 players in Schoop, C.J. Cron and Nelson Cruz.

Now, he cedes the best players to other teams, largely and then shops the bargain bin.

His saving grace and biggest accomplishment is developing a farm system that could carry the Twins a long way!

The Royals gave a 3 year deal to a 34-year-old pitcher who has had one season as a starter in the last seven years and an average at best relief pitcher. KC looks more like a black hole than a circle.

I'd have rather stood pat with what the Twins have than sign guys just to sign guys. And I don't think the Twins will stand pat.

[Greglw3]

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The Royals gave a 3 year deal to a 34-year-old pitcher who has had one season as a starter in the last seven years and an average at best relief pitcher. KC looks more like a black hole than a circle.

I'd have rather stood pat with what the Twins have than sign guys just to sign guys. And I don't think the Twins will stand pat.

They traded for Will Smith and Nick Anderson (3.06 ERA, 1.1 WHIP).

They signed Seth Lugo (3.57 ERA in 146 IP, 1.2 WHIP). 

They signed Chris Stratton 82 IP 3.92 about 1 K per IP and 1.13 WHIP

They signed Garrett Hampson who hit .276 w .349 OBP

They acquired Carlos Mateo from Houston, career 36 IP 31 H

WHILST Falvey

Lost 2nd place Cy Young finisher 2023

Lost 2nd place Cy Young finisher 2020

Lost Pagan who had a strong relief season

Has huge question marks in LF, CF, 1B, and at least 1 SP.

I’m saying the Royals have been aggressive and Falvey, as usual is sitting on his hands. Maybe he’ll pull it out but usually he ends up signing retreads like Bundy, Archer, Shoemaker, Happ, Gallo, Jake Cave or acquiring Duds like Mahle. Keuchel.

They gotta trade Polanco and Kepler and hopefully Vazquez and sign Hoskins, grab Mickey Brantley, Keirmaeir.

Then you have

2b Julien

LF Brantley

3B Lewis

1B Hoskins

RF Wallner

SS Correa

CF Keirmaeir, Martin

DH B. Lee, Martin, Castro 

C Jeffers (Camargo)

[jorgenswest]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:00 PM, jkcarew said:

Don’t think you can hang it completely on the shoulder. He was really bad right from the beginning…well before he missed any time with the shoulder. But the main point is, given the mixed/short track record, and his health, in 2024 he shouldn’t be considered as a first-choice at any position for a team that truly wants to compete for a pennant, IMO. Depth piece only in 2024…hopefully.

https://www.mlb.com/news/jose-miranda-withdraws-from-world-baseball-classic
 

[Greglw3]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:53 PM, Greglw3 said:

They traded for Will Smith and Nick Anderson (3.06 ERA, 1.1 WHIP).

They signed Seth Lugo (3.57 ERA in 146 IP, 1.2 WHIP). 

They signed Chris Stratton 82 IP 3.92 about 1 K per IP and 1.13 WHIP

They signed Garrett Hampson who hit .276 w .349 OBP

They acquired Carlos Mateo from Houston, career 36 IP 31 H

WHILST Falvey

Lost 2nd place Cy Young finisher 2023

Lost 2nd place Cy Young finisher 2020

Lost Pagan who had a strong relief season

Has huge question marks in LF, CF, 1B, and at least 1 SP.

I’m saying the Royals have been aggressive and Falvey, as usual is sitting on his hands. Maybe he’ll pull it out but usually he ends up signing retreads like Bundy, Archer, Shoemaker, Happ, Gallo, Jake Cave or acquiring Duds like Mahle. Keuchel.

They gotta trade Polanco and Kepler and hopefully Vazquez and sign Hoskins, grab Mickey Brantley, Keirmaeir.

Then you have

2b Julien

LF Brantley

3B Lewis

1B Hoskins

RF Wallner

SS Correa

CF Keirmaeir, Martin

DH B. Lee, Martin, Castro 

C Jeffers (Camargo)

and signed Michael Wacha 14-4 3.22 ERA. The Royals are having a great offseason while, so far the Twins pitching staff has gone backward. That may change but for me, Falveys approach is frustrating. The big credit I give him is development of young players which saved the Twins season last year.

[KirbyDome89]

On 12/12/2023 at 7:17 AM, nicksaviking said:

We're still doing that bit after signing Correa and Donaldson?

MN was Correa's 3rd choice at best. If he passes a physical in SF he's a Giant, ditto for NY. 

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

MN was Correa's 3rd choice at best. If he passes a physical in SF he's a Giant, ditto for NY. 

If the Twins offer was all a façade, seems like they would have pulled it off the table once he came crawling back.

[KirbyDome89]

22 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

If the Twins offer was all a façade, seems like they would have pulled it off the table once he came crawling back.

Their willingness to go through with the offer isn't what's in question here. You and I could submit offers that are 20-30% under market for the homes we want, and have every intention of spending that amount, but we also forfeit the right to moan when we aren't the winning bid no? 

Correa literally fell into their lap. The Twins didn't circle "their guy," and go get him. It took and all time bizarre FA saga for him to end up in MN. 

[Paul D]

Fits a major need on the team, but comes with a hefty price tag. He is either looking for a multi-year contract in excess of an AAV of $15M or is looking for a 1 year pillow contract to let him get back into free agency with a proven record of better health. In a normal off season this would be a reasonable signing, however with the Pohlad's worrying about finances this signing may not happen unless we can move a combination of Farmer, Polanco, Vazquez, Kepler. 

If we can't sign Hoskins we are probably looking at a Miranda/Kirilloff platoon.