This might be the best Twins pitching staff since ... 65?

[Monkeypaws]

Just looked at the team stats on MLB tonight.

1st in ERA - 3.59

1st in WHIP - 1.16

2nd in Ks after CWS - 825

2nd fewest hits allowed after TB - 661

Granted these aren't just the starters providing these numbers, but still: Gray, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Maeda.

Talk about giving your team a chance to win.

If only they'd had these guys AND the Bomba Squad....

Edit: also 1st in FIP and ERA+

[Nine of twelve]

Without looking up stats, I think of the 2006 staff, after the first 60 or so games and before the Liriano UCL injury. Liriano, Santana, and Radke in the rotation and the bullpen was a brick wall.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Interesting how this has flown relatively under the radar.  With all the screaming about how bad the offense has been, the rotation has been amazing and the bullpen has been better than most people think.

If we are seeing the real Maeda, this could potentially be the best/deepest rotation (one through five) maybe in Twin's history.

[HokieRif]

According to the votes for the ASG this is not true... But I disagree with the votes and the current roster and this staff has been pretty damn good, and I haven't felt this confident about most of the staff in a long time.

I'm a little disappointed for guys like Ryan and Duran who have a legitimate argument that can be made for them to be in Seattle next week.  With a little more/any run support Ryan could easily be in double-digit wins, and maybe leading MLB in win total. 

[stringer bell]

When the season started, there were lots of comments about not having a true #1 and I think that still might be the case, However, they have four guys pitching in the #2-3 range (counting Ober) and Maeda and Varland and Mahle all gave some good starts. The bullpen isn't deep, but when Stewart was healthy, they had three shutdown guys for the end of the game. Hopefully, someone can get healthy or effective (Moran or López) to provide a bit more depth.

I don't know if the Minnesota Twins ever allowed the fewest runs in MLB, but that is where they are right now. It isn't fluky--they have good WHIP, strikeout, walk, and hits numbers--and the club has experienced their share of injuries to the staff. 

This is why I do have a little trouble thinking there should be firings. Pitching is supposed to be between 60 and 75 of the game and the Twins pitching has been at the top.

[IaBeanCounter]

1 hour ago, HokieRif said:

According to the votes for the ASG this is not true... But I disagree with the votes and the current roster and this staff has been pretty damn good, and I haven't felt this confident about most of the staff in a long time.

I'm a little disappointed for guys like Ryan and Duran who have a legitimate argument that can be made for them to be in Seattle next week.  With a little more/any run support Ryan could easily be in double-digit wins, and maybe leading MLB in win total. 

Ryan can't complain about run support.  If my math is correct in his 17 starts the Twins have average 5.76 runs per game (in the Twins other 70 games the average is only 3.89/game),  The Twins have scored 4 or more runs in 12 of the 17 starts.   I am not saying he shouldn't be considered an All-Star, its just that he has had far more run support than other starters.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

50 minutes ago, IaBeanCounter said:

Ryan can't complain about run support.  If my math is correct in his 17 starts the Twins have average 5.76 runs per game (in the Twins other 70 games the average is only 3.89/game),  The Twins have scored 4 or more runs in 12 of the 17 starts.   I am not saying he shouldn't be considered an All-Star, its just that he has had far more run support than other starters.

If this is really the case, then we obviously need to invest in some Joe Ryan masks and tell the rest of the team that he is pitching every game!  Think they'd catch on?

I do think that it is a shame that only one pitcher from the statistically best staff in the league manages to get to the all star game.  I'm not saying the Twins are some sort of juggernaut and deserve 6 spots on the all star roster, but one seems a little bit stingy to me. 

As for best since 1965, I would put the 2006 staff at certain points that year close to it, but the OP is probably right in the assessment.  It kind of shocks the system!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, stringer bell said:

When the season started, there were lots of comments about not having a true #1 and I think that still might be the case, However, they have four guys pitching in the #2-3 range (counting Ober) and Maeda and Varland and Mahle all gave some good starts. The bullpen isn't deep, but when Stewart was healthy, they had three shutdown guys for the end of the game. Hopefully, someone can get healthy or effective (Moran or López) to provide a bit more depth.

I don't know if the Minnesota Twins ever allowed the fewest runs in MLB, but that is where they are right now. It isn't fluky--they have good WHIP, strikeout, walk, and hits numbers--and the club has experienced their share of injuries to the staff. 

This is why I do have a little trouble thinking there should be firings. Pitching is supposed to be between 60 and 75 of the game and the Twins pitching has been at the top.

Agreed, why I’m so frustrated w/ hitting and the FO. A bit more hitting will go a long way!

[Craig Arko]

12 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Agreed, why I’m so frustrated w/ hitting and the FO. A bit more hitting will go a long way!

I suspect if Dave St. Peter picked up a bat we might be disappointed, but entertained, by the results.

[BSLinPA]

10 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Without looking up stats, I think of the 2006 staff, after the first 60 or so games and before the Liriano UCL injury. Liriano, Santana, and Radke in the rotation and the bullpen was a brick wall.

NoT,

Remember how pleased we were with Santana (19-6) and Liriano (12-3 at 22 yrs old) atop that staff??  Looked like a bright future.

Your recollection is accurate with regard to the '06 BP in that Nathan, Neshek, Reyes (scope out his numbers over 66 games!?) and Ricon were solid in the BP.......Guerrier and Crain decent......Eyre, Lohse and Garza poor.

However, the SPs do not carry the day vs this years team: Silva's 36G and 5.94 era, Radke 28 G at 4.32, with Bonser and Baker at 4.22 and 6.37 respectively.

Team ERA (i know its only one stat):  2023 is 3.59.....2006 was 3.95.  So you are correct, certainly comparable with half a season to play.

The present starting five (Gray, Ryan, Lopez, Maeda, Ober) along with IL'd Mahle and Paddock is the best SP staff i remember (became a Twins fan in '66 at 8 yrs old).  I mentioned this in FtM in late Feb and was laughed at.  In the next breath I claimed the '23 Twins offense would be "just fine"......lol.  I still hold hope for the latter.  :-)

[IndianaTwin]

I’ll stand by the comment I’ve made several times. The Twins may not have what some would call an “ace,” but they have multiple guys who can pitch like an ace for an extended period of time. Several have been doing so. 

[Squirrel]

55 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

I’ll stand by the comment I’ve made several times. The Twins may not have what some would call an “ace,” but they have multiple guys who can pitch like an ace for an extended period of time. Several have been doing so. 

Yep. This has been my comment since the start of the season that this squad had the potential for one or two to have that kind of a season and pitch like an ace even if they don’t fit that definition over their career. And having everyone pitch like 2’s and 3’s also make for a strong stable squad.

[notoriousgod71]

91? I believe they had three pitchers of the month and they were all different. 

 

Granted, they basically went three deep.

[Twins_Fan_For_Life]

4 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

91? I believe they had three pitchers of the month and they were all different. 

 

Granted, they basically went three deep.

Tapani, Morris, and Erickson ( before he got hurt and limped to the end of the season) maybe the best three starters in a rotation for the twins ever

[Mortimerkenny21]

It's looking pretty good right now with 2 CGSO from 2 different starters. We were all in question of Meada and he looked great last night through 7 innings too. Ober super consistent and doing good. Sonny Gray selected AS.

[jkcarew]

I think the 1970 staff would give this one a good run for it’s money…

Jim Kaat, Jim Perry (Cy Young winner) Burt Blyleven, Luis Tiant, and a spectacularly underrated Tom Hall….and in an era where you used a 4-man rotation. Tiant and Hall were pulling up the bottom of the rotation.

You had two hall-of-famers backing up the Cy Young winner. Then had to chose between Hall or Tiant on the 4th day. The only staff better that year was the historic Baltimore staff of Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, etc…and not by much.

[Rigby]

1967-1969. Chance, Kaat, Perry, Merritt, Boswell with Perranoski, Worthington and Miller anchoring the pen. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

17 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

I suspect if Dave St. Peter picked up a bat we might be disappointed, but entertained, by the results.

Watching Farmer, Castro, Gallo bat can’t be any worse.

[jmlease1]

13 hours ago, jkcarew said:

I think the 1970 staff would give this one a good run for it’s money…

Jim Kaat, Jim Perry (Cy Young winner) Burt Blyleven, Luis Tiant, and a spectacularly underrated Tom Hall….and in an era where you used a 4-man rotation. Tiant and Hall were pulling up the bottom of the rotation.

You had two hall-of-famers backing up the Cy Young winner. Then had to chose between Hall or Tiant on the 4th day. The only staff better that year was the historic Baltimore staff of Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, etc…and not by much.

I think the 1970 staff is an interesting comp for this year's crew. (Hopefully the 2023 group finishes as well as they've started!) But what's interesting is how good the 1970 bullpen was with Perranowski, Williams, and Tom Hall in a swing role. (Boswell completely fell apart in '70, and was out of the league by '72 which is a real shame). the starters in '70 have a better pedigree than '23, but so far today's rotation has been more effective behind Gray, Ryan, Ober and Lopez. Ryan's ERA+ of 127 is higher than any of the the '70 regulars (just edging out Perry, who won the Cy...and probably shouldn't have) but it's only 3rd today, behind Gray and Ober. But this year's staff will need Thielbar and Stewart to get healthy and keep performing or someone else to really step up to match the '70 bullpen.

I do think the 2004 Twins pitching staff is a little underrated: Johan was awesome, Radke was very very good, Silva was solid and chewed up a million innings, and the bullpen had the law firm of Nathan, Rincon, and Romero handing out indictments to every hitter who came up late...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It’s a good staff greater than the sum of its parts, that we have paid a high price for. Best of the Falvine era for sure. 

[jkcarew]

3 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I agree, the 1970 staff was as good as today's is.  Nothing tops that Baltimore staff though.  I think they had like four or five 20-game winners.

Four….with Pat Dobson. That was in 1971.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

7 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It’s a good staff greater than the sum of its parts, that we have paid a high price for. Best of the Falvine era for sure. 

Who cares?  It's here.  I don't care how it was assembled.  Try to enjoy it.  Let's hope they don't break it.