Please fire the entire coaching staff, except Pete Maki!!

[BiggestRoccoFan]

17 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

If I hired someone who wasn't a fit for the job the first place I looked was in the mirror.  So the guy who was manager of the year three years ago is a complete misfit for the job?  Perhaps the issue lies with the players on the field.

 

The guy was manager of the year 3 years ago because we hit 500 home runs. Pretty easy to manage when you score that many runs.

What happened when he got to the playoffs? He was totally outclassed by Dusty Baker and Aaron Boone.

Look at him the last 2 years now that he actually has to make decisions.

Not so good is he?

[dxpavelka]

53 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

The guy was manager of the year 3 years ago because we hit 500 home runs. Pretty easy to manage when you score that many runs.

What happened when he got to the playoffs? He was totally outclassed by Dusty Baker and Aaron Boone.

Look at him the last 2 years now that he actually has to make decisions.

Not so good is he?

He won manager of the year because we put good baseball players on the field.  The fact that we're no longer doing so shouldn't be a condemnation of him.

 

[wsnydes]

1 hour ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

The guy was manager of the year 3 years ago because we hit 500 home runs. Pretty easy to manage when you score that many runs.

What happened when he got to the playoffs? He was totally outclassed by Dusty Baker and Aaron Boone.

Look at him the last 2 years now that he actually has to make decisions.

Not so good is he?

Ah yes, 3 years ago it was the players winning.  Now it's the manager losing.  Quite the paradox.

Players are the ones on the field.  They're the ones making or not making the plays.  Baker and Boone had superior talent.  Superior talent wins in baseball more often than not.

[KirbyDome89]

11 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

I've said this before, but the most recent time was probably before the OP joined the site so I'll say it again. Firing someone just for the sake of doing so hardly ever does any good. Firing someone is easy. What is more difficult and much more important is to hire someone who will do the job better. And this is especially true if you need to replace an entire coaching staff. You'd better have replacements lined up and ready to go if you're going to take action that drastic. Got any names in mind?

I'd argue that continuing down a dead end road is a worse option that making a change and potentially getting it (more) wrong. I'm speaking specifically about the FO here, but I'd imagine a bulk of the staff is also out with a change at the top. Who knows, maybe Rocco and a few others get the Paul Molitor treatment. 

The Pohlads are part of a very small group of MLB owners, and they're undoubtedly very well connected in and around baseball. They hired a consulting firm the last time they brought in new management at the top. Is it remotely reasonable or fair to ask even the most locked in fan to give you a wishlist of candidates? 

[BiggestRoccoFan]

2 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

He won manager of the year because we put good baseball players on the field.  The fact that we're no longer doing so shouldn't be a condemnation of him.

 

We still have plenty of good players. Difference is there is no juiced ball and we don't have as much pop as that line up.

This is all on Rocco.

It's the managers job to put the players in position to succeed and Rocco does not do that.

Pagan has failed time and time again when he is put into the game in the 8th with the lead and yet again he was put in a bad spot again.

I mean we might as well forfeit the get away day games he manages because of the JV line up's he uses.

 

[Squirrel]

Just now, BiggestRoccoFan said:

We still have plenty of good players. Difference is there is no juiced ball and we don't have as much pop as that line up.

This is all on Rocco.

It's the managers job to put the players in position to succeed and Rocco does not do that.

Pagan has failed time and time again when he is put into the game in the 8th with the lead and yet again he was put in a bad spot again.

I mean we might as well forfeit the get away day games he manages because of the JV line up's he uses.

 

We’ve been told that Duran, De Leon and Stewart were all unavailable. That isn’t me speculating, that’s what was said. Morán and Jax already pitched. Maybe Jax could have pitched a second inning, but you still have to get through the 9th. I’m not convinced that either Lopez or Winder would be better and it’s hindsight to claim it would have worked out. The manager is working with what he has been given. The blame, if you are blaming, is on the FO for not paying any attention to the BP in the off season and keeping Pagán on the roster. Or blame the players for not getting the DP, or not getting the runner in from 3rd. While many moves Rocco makes perplexes me, today’s game was just not one of them.

[ICTwin25]

Rocco loves analytics and trying to find an edge. He brought in a reliever today in the 8th inning who hasnt given up a run at home this year, but has a 7.43 era on the road. When the Twins are leading, Pagan is giving up an OPS of 1.004. When they are behind, it's 5.14. Sure feels like analytics don't apply to Pagan...

[dxpavelka]

2 hours ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

We still have plenty of good players. Difference is there is no juiced ball and we don't have as much pop as that line up.

This is all on Rocco.

It's the managers job to put the players in position to succeed and Rocco does not do that.

Pagan has failed time and time again when he is put into the game in the 8th with the lead and yet again he was put in a bad spot again.

I mean we might as well forfeit the get away day games he manages because of the JV line up's he uses.

 

It's the manager's job to put the player HE HAS in position to succeed.  He doesn't have the players he once had.

 

[August J Gloop]

What will firing the manager or coaches do? How will it help the team right now? Do you think there is some other hitting guru just sitting around watching paint dry hoping to get a call? Do the Twins even have their number? Like I get it, you want to blame someone for the 7 or 8 losses this year that don't make a lot of sense. 

 

[NotAboutWinning]

I don't think it is the coaches. I don't think our offense is getting good analytic/scouting information. On the pitching side it seems fine. They look well prepared for the batters they will see and have an advantage. But most games, our batters look lost. Almost like they are not facing the pitcher they prepped for. Bremer mentioned yesterday that batting practice was set up to mimic Gausman's pitching. And they did well against him. That just seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[lecroy24fan]

My theory is a change a hitting coach can make a difference. A few years ago the Mets, I think, fired theirs and I think brought someone in from outside their org and they turned it around fast. 

[thrillema25]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:57 PM, August J Gloop said:

What will firing the manager or coaches do? How will it help the team right now? Do you think there is some other hitting guru just sitting around watching paint dry hoping to get a call? Do the Twins even have their number? Like I get it, you want to blame someone for the 7 or 8 losses this year that don't make a lot of sense. 

 

Idk, maybe you could ask Sonny Gray if the coaches are doing well!! 😂

[USAFChief]

Put me officially in the "different manager" camp.

 

Too much bad baseball. Lack of hustle. Poor decision making. Bad baserunning. Etc etc. I'm not sure how anyone can watch this team and NOT blame the manager for much of what they see.

 

Rocco can't hit or pitch. Nor can he catch or throw for his players.

But it's literally his job to get his players to play properly. To prepare them. To decide who plays, and when. To ensure his team executes. Hustles. Works on hitting and defending. Throws to the proper place, is in position for cutoffs. And by gosh, has some mental fortitude. 

His teams are bad at ALL of that. If not at least primarily his fault, who? That all falls within his job description: Turning a collection of individuals into a team that gets more from their talents, rather than less.

 

 

[howeda7]

Someone has to be accountable for the lack of fundamentals and completely uninspired dog-#$%$ play. This roster isn't good, especially the line-up and that's on Derek Falvey. But they are not getting the most out of the talent they do have either and that's on Rocco. They should both be fired. But firing the manager is far more likely to spark a mid-season turnaround so that's the more immediate need. There's no real argument against it. Will Toby or Tingler do any better? Maybe not. Will they do worse? Unlikely and what are we out if they do?

[howeda7]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:28 PM, dxpavelka said:

Firing folks tends to lead to hiring folks whose firing will soon be called for.  Look it up.

Falvey's had 7 years. How many does he get before it's OK to say we'll never win anything with him at the helm? 8? 10? 12? He's not a good GM. That's not suddenly going to change. 

[howeda7]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:27 AM, Nine of twelve said:

I've said this before, but the most recent time was probably before the OP joined the site so I'll say it again. Firing someone just for the sake of doing so hardly ever does any good. Firing someone is easy. What is more difficult and much more important is to hire someone who will do the job better. And this is especially true if you need to replace an entire coaching staff. You'd better have replacements lined up and ready to go if you're going to take action that drastic. Got any names in mind?

Managers are fired mid-season all the time. Usually, it doesn't help. Once in a while it does. Start with Rocco and the hitting coach. If things don't turn around, there should be a whole new front office and clubhouse staff after the season anyway, 

[Seth Stohs]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:30 PM, FlyingFinn said:

Agreed. I will give Tommy Watkins some credit for much improved judgment on when to send and not send runners home from third base. At least that is my impression when listening.

Also, Watkins does much more than 'just' coach 3B. 

[BiggestRoccoFan]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Put me officially in the "different manager" camp.

 

Too much bad baseball. Lack of hustle. Poor decision making. Bad baserunning. Etc etc. I'm not sure how anyone can watch this team and NOT blame the manager for much of what they see.

 

Rocco can't hit or pitch. Nor can he hit or throw for his players.

But it's literally his job to get his players to play properly. To prepare them. To decide who plays, and when. To ensure his team executes. Hustles. Works on hitting and defending. Throws to the proper place, is in position for cutoffs. And by gosh, has some mental fortitude. 

He's bad at ALL of that.

 

You are one on the few on here that see the light!

As long as Rocco is in charge I am not watching because I see less mistakes being made at my son's tee ball games.

[dxpavelka]

6 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Falvey's had 7 years. How many does he get before it's OK to say we'll never win anything with him at the helm? 8? 10? 12? He's not a good GM. That's not suddenly going to change. 

Brian Cashman is going on a decade and a half.  Could change at any point.  So could our fortunes.  Not gonna win it every year.  Just need that one magical year where everything goes right.  Changing anything or everything or some combination in between guarantees nothing except gives folks new folks to bitch about.

[TwinsDr2021]

18 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Brian Cashman is going on a decade and a half.  Could change at any point.  So could our fortunes.  Not gonna win it every year.  Just need that one magical year where everything goes right.  Changing anything or everything or some combination in between guarantees nothing except gives folks new folks to bitch about.

You didn't really just compare Cashman to our FO office did you? And then move the goal posts to championships?

Nobody is talking about the Twins FO has to win a championships to keep their jobs, most are talking about winning a fricken playoff game, just 1, and playing watchable baseball.

And just in case you didn't know since 2017 the Yanks have been to 3 American League championship series and haven't missed the playoffs, and also don't play in the Central Division.

 

 

[wabene]

If we don't see some major in-season adjustments and turn this hard to watch thing around I'm finally ready for a change with this staff, including Falvey, Levine and Baldelli. For one they just have to win this division. If they do and then got swept out extending the embarrassing streak, they probably still gotta go. It might depend on how that played out, but man the fan base would be in an absolute frenzy.

On the one hand these major changes should happen after the season. On the other, with the baseball draft in July, with a #5 pick, if the Twins are totally in the tank then do you want these guys making that pick? Tough situation. I would be in favor of major shakeup moves now including doing something with J Lopez (done), bidding farewell to Mr Popkins, sadly DFAing long time Twins Max Kepler and just over all making quick adjustments to the plan that reflect the importance of each and every game. DO F#&%ING SOMETHING!! 

[howeda7]

2 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Brian Cashman is going on a decade and a half.  Could change at any point.  So could our fortunes.  Not gonna win it every year.  Just need that one magical year where everything goes right.  Changing anything or everything or some combination in between guarantees nothing except gives folks new folks to bitch about.

Falvey is Brian Cashman now? Come on. 

[chpettit19]

9 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Managers are fired mid-season all the time. Usually, it doesn't help. Once in a while it does. Start with Rocco and the hitting coach. If things don't turn around, there should be a whole new front office and clubhouse staff after the season anyway, 

I think this is actually part of why they won't fire Rocco. If you've replaced everyone between you and the problem, and the problem doesn't get better, it's hard to say you're not the one causing the problem. Whether they admit it, even to themselves, or not, I think Rocco is the FO's buffer right now. Replace him midseason, and nothing gets better? Pohlads start looking at you side eyed, and you're the last head left on the chopping block. I'd be less surprised by an offseason change where the FO buys themselves at least 1 more year.

[nicksaviking]

No one is firing their manager from a first place team, even if they are below .500. 

I mean, I'm ready to shake things up, but you guys are going to have to wait to bang this drum in the off season.

Also, the young guys are doing pretty well, and I think those are the players who are most impacted by the coaches and managers. From the anecdotes I've always heard, veteran players tend to get to do their veteran player things, typically only getting instruction from coaches and managers upon their own volition. So I'd say gripes about how poorly the vets are playing, should be aimed at the front office, not the coaching staff. 

[Mike Sixel]

I think the problem is the front office. I have no idea if new coaches would help.

Also, the veterans just aren't playing well. Sticking with Kepler and Gallo and pagan is on the front office...... And I'm done with them for sure. 

[Squirrel]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think the problem is the front office. I have no idea if new coaches would help.

Also, the veterans just aren't playing well. Sticking with Kepler and Gallo and pagan is on the front office...... And I'm done with them for sure. 

I've said this a dozen times ... change starts at the top. FO changes will bring about change elsewhere. Firing coaches and the manager might make some feel better about things, and it might cause a momentary boost ... but then we are still back where we started.

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:43 AM, chpettit19 said:

While I'm on board with moving on from the management team, I just don't get this obsession with firing coaches like it's going to suddenly make players better. As @Rod Carews Birthday pointed out, people were calling Maki incompetent, and spent much of the offseason calling for his head, when he was in charge of a rotation with Archer, Bundy, Sanchez, and a whole bunch of other AAA/AAAA players in it and they were doing poorly. Now he has a rotation full of legitimate MLB pitchers and they're doing well so he's clearly a genius. 

Rowson is brought up at least weekly around here because he was the hitting coach in 2019. He obviously would be able to fix this less talented lineup despite the fact that his offenses in Miami were less talented, and terrible at scoring runs, and his current team (Detroit) is less talented, and last place in MLB in runs scored this year. The great James Rowson has his offense being outscored by an Oakland team attempting to set the all time loss record. I don't get how people think coaching turns bad players into good ones. It doesn't.

This offense struggling shouldn't be a shock. Many, many, many of us spent all offseason saying they didn't have enough hitting. Correa being terrible is surprising. Buxton being streaky isn't. Polo being hurt hasn't helped, but that's not coaching. Jeffers has been better than expected. Kirilloff is doing his thing. Lewis is hit and miss as he gets rolling again. But are we really surprised Gallo is striking out a bunch with a low BA, and high HRs? Are we surprised Kepler is a bad hitter? MAT, Vazquez, Larnach, Solano, Garlick, or Castro doing things that nobody was expecting? This is a severely flawed offense missing true impact bats. What do we think firing coaches is going to do to fix that?

Now I'm not defending anybody, or suggesting this is some top shelf coaching staff. I don't really know. Just saying that this idea that coaches are some sort of magicians who turn bad players into good ones is nonsense. This isn't a talented lineup, and new coaches won't make it one. I don't love the extreme platoon decisions (in fact, I hate them), or the "get your A swing off every time" approach they appear to have at the plate (that doesn't mean they're all trying to hit homeruns every pitch, though), and I'm not going to shed a tear for anyone who's fired, but, if you came into this year expecting (note: I said expecting, not hoping for) some sort of offensive juggernaut, it's your expectations that are the problem, not the coaching. This is a team lacking offensive skill, and it was easy to see in the offseason. These struggles aren't coaching, they're talent.

Right on point. This team isn't hitting well because we don't have enough good hitters, and  Buxton and Correa not hitting just turns a mediocre lineup into a bad one.  How do we get better? We might not be able to with the talent we have, but at least let's stop running out the same lineup hoping for a better result.  They've finally stopped playing Kepler, thank God, so let's finish the job by moving or releasing him.  Call up Wallner and play him. Move Gallo, call up Larnach and play him. The OF should be a combination of Buxton, Larnach, Wallner and Castro, with MAT playing twice a week. In the IF, Play Lewis, Julien, and Kirilloff every day. Sit Farmer - he's a 32 year old reserve for goodness sakes. Play Buxton in the OF so Solano, Julien, etc. can DH. 

Try SOMETHING to shake up this lineup. This is just too painful to watch.  

[BiggestRoccoFan]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:31 PM, dxpavelka said:

It's the manager's job to put the player HE HAS in position to succeed.  He doesn't have the players he once had.

 

Rocco has plenty of talent dude!

[DJL44]

9 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Also, Watkins does much more than 'just' coach 3B. 

Any word on whether people are considering Watkins as a future manager? He's well liked in the organization.

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

Rocco has plenty of talent dude!

Yeah, but it keeps getting shuttled back and forth from St. Paul in deference to the less talented veterans.