7/24/22 Twins @ Tigers 12:40 CDT (10:40PDT)

[RickOShea]

1 minute ago, SwainZag said:

This isn't the 60's-70's-80's anymore.  Starters most often go 90-100 pitches and 6 innings now.  You can scream at clouds all you want, but this is modern baseball.  Relievers are better pitchers than they were then.  I don't think it has anything to do with burnout, it's just a difference in strategy.  A fresh bullpen arm generally is more effective than a starter later in ballgames.

How do you explain starters who lose it after 5-6 innings?  Or this philosophy about pitching to a line up the 3rd or 4th time around?  I believe this is like a self fulfilling prophecy approach.  If you don't expect or prepare to pitch deeper into a game, you won't.

[Jerr]

10 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

If you (people in general) believe that today's athletes are superior in terms of conditioning, diet, exercise, training, supplemental medicine, then how does that logic compute with the fact that guys like blyleven, gibson, marichal,  ryan, etc. threw for more 300 innings during some seasons. 

My only thought it has to do with kids today suffering from burnout.  Yet, most kids still play ball today as much as kids did, when I was growing up.

If at a young age and deemed a good pitcher, I'm afraid many do that just year-round. Back in "the day" kids played other sports or never specialized as they do now.

[RickOShea]

Soccer sucked more players and the life from a lot of kids who were playing little league.  Twice, the little league teams were pared down, because kids were going to play soccer.

[Parfigliano]

7 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

This isn't the 60's-70's-80's anymore.  Starters most often go 90-100 pitches and 6 innings now.  You can scream at clouds all you want, but this is modern baseball.  Relievers are better pitchers than they were then.  I don't think it has anything to do with burnout, it's just a difference in strategy.  A fresh bullpen arm generally is more effective than a starter later in ballgames.

Are you trying to make Blyleven angry?

[Mill1634]

Akil Baddoo and Nick Gordon

[LVTwinsfan]

There’s Flash

[BH67]

"Spahn and Sain" (Ryan and Gray) this weekend:

11.2 IP, 170 pitches (112 for strikes), 6 H, 2 BB, 2 R (both earned), 14 K.

1.54 ERA, 10.8 K/9, 0.69 WHIP.  And I'm sure the SABR folks here can add to this meaningfully.

[stringer bell]

19 minutes ago, Mortimerkenny21 said:

Finally Gary hits something!

H was in danger of falling below Jeffers in OPS. Clemens in to pitch. 

[h2oface]

3 minutes ago, BH67 said:

"Spahn and Sain" (Ryan and Gray) this weekend:

11.2 IP, 170 pitches (112 for strikes), 6 H, 2 BB, 2 R (both earned), 14 K.

1.64 ERA, 10.8 K/9, 0.69 WHIP.  And I'm sure the SABR folks here can add to this meaningfully.

Nice!

I bet Spahn and Sain would have pitched complete games, though 

[rwilfong86]

Clemens is in, the Tigers are waving the white flag

[Jerr]

5 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Soccer sucked more players and the life from a lot of kids who were playing little league.  Twice, the little league teams were pared down, because kids were going to play soccer.

And basketball.

[Mill1634]

19 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

If you (people in general) believe that today's athletes are superior in terms of conditioning, diet, exercise, training, supplemental medicine, then how does that logic compute with the fact that guys like blyleven, gibson, marichal,  ryan, etc. threw for more 300 innings during some seasons. 

My only thought it has to do with kids today suffering from burnout.  Yet, most kids still play ball today as much as kids did, when I was growing up.

Guys are throwing way harder than ever, starters or relievers. That puts way, way more stress on arms. Guys are also pitching for strikeouts more than every, which also means walks are going to be up, which in turn raises pitch counts. We also have more data now than they ever had in the "golden years." Look at any pitcher back in the day and their numbers are very similar the deeper they get through the game (times through the order) that we are now. But now, we're able to justify that and have the numbers to back that up.

Also, kids are now throwing more than ever at a younger age than ever. Elite young baseball players are putting innings on their arm year around from the age of 13+.

[h2oface]

Clemens on the mound!

[stringer bell]

Well, the run differential might improve a bit here. Gordon GDPs, so maybe not.

[LVTwinsfan]

9 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

How do you explain starters who lose it after 5-6 innings?  Or this philosophy about pitching to a line up the 3rd or 4th time around?  I believe this is like a self fulfilling prophecy approach.  If you don't expect or prepare to pitch deeper into a game, you won't.

That’s exactly right. Mix it up the 3rd time through….learn how to pitch!

[Mill1634]

I absolutely hate how position player's pitching has turned into throwing 60 MPH slow pitch softball to the plate. Wanna save your bullpen, fine. But go out there and throw 85 at least.

[mnfireman]

Oh great, a position player pitching....

[h2oface]

Still grounding into a double play............ no matter if it is a pitcher pitching or not. 

At least we scored against Kody Clemens,

[bighat]

....Kody and Roger Clemens have taken over first place for most ever strikeouts for any father-son combo in MLB history.

[Parfigliano]

2 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Clemens on the mound!

And Gordon craps out

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, h2oface said:

Still grounding into a double play............ no matter if it is a pitcher pitching or not. 

At least we scored against Cody Clemens,

It never fails. 

[Mill1634]

Cleveland and Chicago split (the best case, imo), and the Twins will be up 3 games in about 10 minutes. Pretty, pretty good. Cleveland heads to Boston tomorrow while Chicago has an off-day tomorrow before heading to Colorado.

[Aggies7]

MLB needs to do something about these teams throwing position players in so frequently. A seven run game and there’s a position player throwing? Get out of here with that. MLB loves messing with everything else about the game but allows someone to go in there and toss 60 mph softballs in a game that might be in hand but certainly not some embarrassing blowout. One day one of these guys is going to wear one in the teeth and it won’t be so funny.

[h2oface]

Early season magic man Joe Smith now extreme mop up man. Go figure.

[Nine of twelve]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

MLB needs to do something about these teams throwing position players in so frequently. A seven run game and there’s a position player throwing? Get out of here with that. MLB loves messing with everything else about the game but allows someone to go in there and toss 60 mph softballs. One day one of these guys is going to wear one in the teeth and it won’t be so funny.

Yeah, they have a limit on the number of pitchers on a roster but still allow anyone on the roster to pitch

[Mike Sixel]

Let them forfeit. Easy. 

[Mill1634]

Twins schedule from the end of ASB to the trade deadline, and my expectations and current results.

2 at DET expect 2-0, actual 2-0

2 at MIL expect 1-1, actual ?

3 at SDP, expect 1-2, actual ?

3 vs DET, expect 2-1, actual ?

 

Huge to sweep this series especially with Ryan and Gray on the bump. Burnes is looming on Wednesday, so winning Tuesday is probably necessary to secure the split. The Padres are pretty similar to the Twins, but it's in San Diego so I gave them the edge, but could certainly see the Twins taking 2 of 3. Then the TD is in the middle of the DET series. This would put the Twins at 56-48, which probably puts the division lead somewhere between 3-5 games. 

[h2oface]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

MLB needs to do something about these teams throwing position players in so frequently. A seven run game and there’s a position player throwing? Get out of here with that. MLB loves messing with everything else about the game but allows someone to go in there and toss 60 mph softballs. One day one of these guys is going to wear one in the teeth and it won’t be so funny.

Didn't they make a rule change that the lead had to be so much for a position player to pitch like this? I know they were talking about it as part of the new CBA. I thought they made some kind of rule involving time of game and score. Any body know for sure?

[Mill1634]

1 minute ago, Nine of twelve said:

Yeah, they have a limit on the number of pitchers on a roster but still allow anyone on the roster to pitch

Not actually, though. The team must submit a list of their 13 pitchers, and the other 13 guys can only throw in a 6 run difference either way. Happened in a game earlier this year where a team was told no. I would prefer MLB raise the rule to an 8 run difference.

[Aggies7]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Let them forfeit. Easy. 

I mean, yeah, but at 8 runs? That would be a bit of a mockery