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If you were the Twins would you still try and take a run at a turn around like 2006? I think they can but maybe it is wishful thinking


They made a couple moves in 2006 like bringing in Liriano to the rotation full time and trading for Shannon Stewart that really seemed to jump start that team.

I know I don't have a lot to go on but I still think this team even with all of the injury's could turn this season around. Dump Shoemaker and trade for an additional starter. Would you try and trade for a closer type like Brandon Kintzler or Ian Kennedy at the back end of the rotation to shore up the bullpen. I still think if we could shore up the back end and just use Colume, Robles and Rogers as situational closers and have one more back end guy that this would really start to shore up the Twins bullpen. I still have hopes that Buxton and Kepler will get healthy and that there bats will come alive. I still think Donaldson and Sano will start to hit more and start to click a little more a long with Polanco in the lineup. Is it truly too late  or is there still a chance with the American league Central not being a great division to flip this season around? Thoughts?

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It's wishful thinking.

2003 was the year that the Twins traded for Shannon Stewart, not 2006. He was still on the roster in 2006 but his skills and physical health were starting to fade and he only played in 44 games.

The biggest difference between the 2006 team and the 2021 team is pitching. In 2006 the AL Cy Young winner was our second best starter and the bullpen was a brick wall. That's not going to be replicated this year. Not even close.

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This team is like the giant crack that was discovered on the bridge recently.  We somehow missed it before, but now that we see it, we know it's going to take a hell of a lot to fix it.  We also know the fix will take a long time.

This is the first summer after a global pandemic.  Get out there and enjoy yourself, there are no guarantees in life.

The Twins have enough pieces and play enough inconsistent teams to where there will be some fun games to watch this summer.  But we don't know when those games will come, and eventually the trades will start which will make those fun games happen even less often.

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Those two teams literally have nothing in common.  The 2006 team had a better top of the rotation, and don't even get me started on the bullpen differences.  Finally, there is no Mauer, Morneau, or Hunter on this roster(not even close).    What happened in 2006 happening again in 2021 is just not possible.  It's beyond wishful thinking.

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The wishful thinking is ok by me, but there isn't any comparisons between the two teams. Santana and Mauer alone would be enough but adding Liriano, Morneau, Hunter, and the bullpen creates a chasm. Any charge in 2021 will need to be from the Twins awakening to bludgeon pitchers six days a week. I'm waiting and it could happen. Right?

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In Baseball, the past usually predicts the future. At the end of the season Cruz will have hit over 30 HR, Donaldson will have hit 20+ HR with a .280 + batting average.  Sano will certainly have 30 HR and probably 40. Arraez will bat over .300 & Polanco will hit and so will Garver.  Berrios, Maeda & Pineda will have positive records and our current bullpen pitchers will have bushels of saves and holds.

Lets just hope the Front Office holds their mud and let the boys do it in a Twins uniform. :)

PS. Those rookies will be an overall plus and that will get us into the playoff mix in September.  :) :)

 

 

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Sano's career high for Hr's is 34, and that's the only season he has hit 30.   Donaldson is a good player, but hasn't hit .280 since 2016.  And he has only played more than 120 games once since 2016.  He is halfway between ages 35-36, so we'll see if he can stay healthy over an entire season.  Cruz might hit 30, but his power numbers so far are way down.  Either father time is catching up, he is hurt, or both.  The bullpen is statistically one of the worst in baseball, been better lately, but this is not the same bullpen as last year.   Garver started to hit, then got hurt.  Polanco has improved at 2nd.  Other than the first half of 2019, he has been an average offensive player.  We are 60 games into this season and that is no longer a small sample size.  On top of that, the injuries.  By the time everyone is healthy and playing..it will be most likely sometime in July.  Guys like Cruz & Simmons will be dangled to contenders.

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3 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The Twins average pitching age is the oldest in the AL. Only the Angels have given up more runs than the Twins. There is no Santana and Liriano or Scherzer and Strasburg to get them out of this hole.

Interesting that you bring up Scherzer -- I was just thinking, the Twins may not be likely to come back 2006-style right now, but if they can claw back at their deficit over the next month, could they make a splash and trade for Scherzer and a reliever? The Nationals (3.3%) currently have lower playoff odds than we do (4.0%) at Fangraphs.

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This team is cooked but it's also not an easy fix. I think the lineup will be pretty good over the next few years and the team has a few different ways to go but I'd see if there is any interest in Kepler, Cruz, Rogers and try to get pitching back, . 

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49 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The Twins average pitching age is the oldest in the AL. Only the Angels have given up more runs than the Twins. There is no Santana and Liriano or Scherzer and Strasburg to get them out of this hole.

This window has closed. I would plan with 2023 in mind.

2023 in mind means signing or trading Berrios and Buxton. I think we can compete in 2022 and would be afraid to move these 2 this summer. You're not going to see a Berrios or Buxton extension in the next 6 weeks. I do not favor a total rebuild pointing towards 2023. Get what you can for Cruz and Simmons - maybe move Garver or Kepler if you can get a top 100 pitching prospect for each, but let's not give up on next year for heavens sake. 

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They might be able to compete. I don’t think they can contend next year. In 2011 they might have convinced themselves they could be competitive in 2012 and that did not go well.

Get rid of the Donaldson money somehow and spend it towards Berrios and Buxton. If neither is willing to negotiate move them as the White Sox moved several players like Chris Sale a few years back.

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1 hour ago, In My La Z boy said:

2023 in mind means signing or trading Berrios and Buxton. I think we can compete in 2022 and would be afraid to move these 2 this summer. You're not going to see a Berrios or Buxton extension in the next 6 weeks. I do not favor a total rebuild pointing towards 2023. Get what you can for Cruz and Simmons - maybe move Garver or Kepler if you can get a top 100 pitching prospect for each, but let's not give up on next year for heavens sake. 

Yeah, I don't think a complete teardown is necessary.  There are workable pieces here for the long-term, even if you trade some of them off.  In that scenario, I'm not sure that they'd be able to compete but they should be respectable.  But the strength, or relative lackthereoff, could actually allow them to compete in 2022 for the division.  With that in mind, trying to align themselves for a big splash in 2023 doesn't seem unreasonable or outlandish.

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3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

They might be able to compete. I don’t think they can contend next year. In 2011 they might have convinced themselves they could be competitive in 2012 and that did not go well.

Don't think it mattered in 2011? We didn't really have any good tradable assets at the time anyway.

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Get rid of the Donaldson money somehow and spend it towards Berrios and Buxton. If neither is willing to negotiate move them as the White Sox moved several players like Chris Sale a few years back.

The White Sox traded guys with a lot of affordable control (and Sale was seen as an elite SP too). If the Twins returns would be notably less, I'm less sure that it's worth it to trade them.

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9 hours ago, spycake said:

Interesting that you bring up Scherzer -- I was just thinking, the Twins may not be likely to come back 2006-style right now, but if they can claw back at their deficit over the next month, could they make a splash and trade for Scherzer and a reliever? The Nationals (3.3%) currently have lower playoff odds than we do (4.0%) at Fangraphs.

You realize what the Nationals would ask for in return for Scherzer?  The FO will not part with any of them.

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23 hours ago, Dodecahedron said:

This team is like the giant crack that was discovered on the bridge recently.  We somehow missed it before, but now that we see it, we know it's going to take a hell of a lot to fix it.  We also know the fix will take a long time.

This is the first summer after a global pandemic.  Get out there and enjoy yourself, there are no guarantees in life.

The Twins have enough pieces and play enough inconsistent teams to where there will be some fun games to watch this summer.  But we don't know when those games will come, and eventually the trades will start which will make those fun games happen even less often.

This team is playing like what comes out of a giant ass crack! That's how you should've started your comment. :)

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This team is toast. Biggest problem I see is they can't hit, pitch or play defense. How do you fix that? Complete over-haul.

What did Puckett, Hrbek and Gaetti have that no one on the current Twins roster have. Leadership qualities. You can argue that Cruz has it but he's not a fixture in the Twins organization and is only there on a 1 year deal. Donaldson should be but again he's not a Twins original. It takes someone who started their career with the organization to emerge and take the reigns. Sano and Buxton come to mind but one is lost at the plate and doesn't know how to hit and the other one is usually just lost and can't be found even playing. Add in the fact that Rocco seems very adept at making the wrong moves almost continuously, starting with setting the lineup and you have a LACK OF LEADERSHIP. 

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6 hours ago, rv78 said:

This team is toast. Biggest problem I see is they can't hit, pitch or play defense. How do you fix that? Complete over-haul.

What did Puckett, Hrbek and Gaetti have that no one on the current Twins roster have. Leadership qualities. You can argue that Cruz has it but he's not a fixture in the Twins organization and is only there on a 1 year deal. Donaldson should be but again he's not a Twins original. It takes someone who started their career with the organization to emerge and take the reigns. Sano and Buxton come to mind but one is lost at the plate and doesn't know how to hit and the other one is usually just lost and can't be found even playing. Add in the fact that Rocco seems very adept at making the wrong moves almost continuously, starting with setting the lineup and you have a LACK OF LEADERSHIP. 

Hrbek was on some really bad Twins teams, but it did not phase him.  Eventually, that rubbed off on others.  It really looked like he was having a good time in spite of what was going on around him.  

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At the deadline in 2011 Baker was having a fantastic year with an ERA of 2.86 and then had arm trouble in August. 

Cuddyer was also having a great year with an OPS of .852 at the deadline. The rest of the way it was below .700.

Those were valuable trade assets.

 

 

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8 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

At the deadline in 2011 Baker was having a fantastic year with an ERA of 2.86 and then had arm trouble in August. 

Cuddyer was also having a great year with an OPS of .852 at the deadline. The rest of the way it was below .700.

Those were valuable trade assets.

 

 

Baker’s arm trouble had manifested itself before August, although he did return for a few August starts before getting shut down: “July 17, 2011: Minnesota Twins placed RHP Scott Baker on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to July 7, 2011. Right flexor strain.” He had previously left a start early with elbow pain in September 2010 and missed a couple rotation turns at that time (and was in the bullpen for the postseason).

Losing Cuddyer in FA actually gave us the #32 pick in the 2012 draft which turned into Berrios. I think it was the last year for the old type A/B free agent compensation system, which was great for teams losing mid-tier free agents.

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On 6/7/2021 at 6:12 PM, jaimedude said:

They made a couple moves in 2006 like bringing in Liriano to the rotation full time and trading for Shannon Stewart that really seemed to jump start that team.

I know I don't have a lot to go on but I still think this team even with all of the injury's could turn this season around. Dump Shoemaker and trade for an additional starter. Would you try and trade for a closer type like Brandon Kintzler or Ian Kennedy at the back end of the rotation to shore up the bullpen. I still think if we could shore up the back end and just use Colume, Robles and Rogers as situational closers and have one more back end guy that this would really start to shore up the Twins bullpen. I still have hopes that Buxton and Kepler will get healthy and that there bats will come alive. I still think Donaldson and Sano will start to hit more and start to click a little more a long with Polanco in the lineup. Is it truly too late  or is there still a chance with the American league Central not being a great division to flip this season around? Thoughts?

Yes, it's wishful thinking. But I'm willing to join you on that bandwagon. It's a whole lot more fun being optimistic than pessimistic.

And I see you're now at 10 career posts. Welcome to the gang, and keep chipping in!

 

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On 6/7/2021 at 8:50 PM, SanoMustGo said:

Sano's career high for Hr's is 34, and that's the only season he has hit 30.   Donaldson is a good player, but hasn't hit .280 since 2016.  And he has only played more than 120 games once since 2016.  He is halfway between ages 35-36, so we'll see if he can stay healthy over an entire season.  Cruz might hit 30, but his power numbers so far are way down.  Either father time is catching up, he is hurt, or both.  The bullpen is statistically one of the worst in baseball, been better lately, but this is not the same bullpen as last year.   Garver started to hit, then got hurt.  Polanco has improved at 2nd.  Other than the first half of 2019, he has been an average offensive player.  We are 60 games into this season and that is no longer a small sample size.  On top of that, the injuries.  By the time everyone is healthy and playing..it will be most likely sometime in July.  Guys like Cruz & Simmons will be dangled to contenders.

FWIW...

  • With the homer tonight, Sano is on pace for 33 homers, even with his atrocious average.
  • By playing tonight, Donaldson is on pace for 128 games. Hitting .280 may be a stretch because it's above his career average, but he'll hit at least .260 the rest of the way. And with tonight's homer, he's on pace 
  • With the homer tonight, Cruz is on pace for 31 homers. His OPS is .885, down from the last two years, but above his career average and 50 percent better than the league average. 

And that's three guys that we perceive as playing poorly. Any of them can carry a club for a while and boost their stats quite a bit.

Everyone won't be healthy -- it's baseball. The way this season has gone, someone will probably get hurt, but with Buxton and Arraez on rehab assignments, the lineup is very close to what was expected opening day. Additionally, some guys have gotten a bit of experience that weren't expected. Gordon, for example, has already shown more than what we thought we'd get.

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