Don't sign Josh Donaldson

[DocBauer]

I'm using past history as my guide. Twins have never been top bidder when going for coveted free agents on multi-year deals. Never outbid anyone else.

 

It's fine to believe it, but he will sign with either Atlanta or Washington. Also, it has now been reported Atlanta has put a 4th year on the table. He gone. Probably even looking for 5 years.

Where did you hear about Atlanta offering a 4th year? I can't find it on their site, MLB or MLB Trade Rumors.

[tony&rodney]

From: Doc Bauer

"To be frank, Donaldson was never in MY plans for this team. My hopes were tied to just one really good SP FA option. No more debating or whining, it simply was not to be.

So, while trading for an arm is a viable and import move to make, you can STILL add to your team. It is never a bad thing to add to your offense or your defense even if another area of your team still needs work. You are still adding to the WHOLE that is the team."

 

Same with me - JD was not a player I hoped the Twins would sign. My hope was for pitching.

Simply put, Donaldson would improve the team, both offensively and defensively. Yes, the Twins need to still search out pitching, but any good player added puts the team one step forward. The post season will wait.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Where did you hear about Atlanta offering a 4th year? I can't find it on their site, MLB or MLB Trade Rumors.

 

I just googled Josh Donaldson

 

https://tomahawktake.com/2019/12/30/atlanta-braves-reportedly-now-offering-four-years-for-josh-donaldson/

[DocBauer]

I just googled Josh Donaldson

 

https://tomahawktake.com/2019/12/30/atlanta-braves-reportedly-now-offering-four-years-for-josh-donaldson/

Thanks. Weird. Would have thought at least one of the places I checked would have said something.

 

Going to be interesting.

[rv78]

Can anyone explain to me why moving Sano to 1st base is going to help the defense? He's going to be involved in a lot more plays at 1st and his defensive short-comings will be on display even more. Is that really where this team wants him? I just don't see improving defense at 3rd and making it worse at 1st is really a good move. I'd rather see Sano stay at 3B this year, sign someone good for 1 year or 2 years at 1st base and then in 2021 move Sano to DH. By then a Kirilloff or Raley or whoever from AAA may step up and be the next Hrbek. As for you Marwin lovers, give me a break. He's the most over-rated player in baseball. Just because he's a utility guy doesn't mean he's good. If he was, he'd have his everyday position and would play there everyday. I'd rather have Escobar back than Marwin 8 days of the week. 

Spend the money on pitching and forget Donaldson. Please!

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Nelson Cruz signed a 4 year deal, age 34-38, and it worked out pretty well!

There is always risk, no guarantee, etc, but Donaldson was perhaps good enough at age 33 that he has some room to age over the next few years and still be a valuable contributor.

Josh Donaldson is no Nelson Cruz.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Can anyone explain to me why moving Sano to 1st base is going to help the defense? He's going to be involved in a lot more plays at 1st and his defensive short-comings will be on display even more.

Spend the money on pitching and forget Donaldson. Please!

Agree and agree.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

If the Twins can sign JD, then it is incomprehensible why any Twin fan would be opposed to a contract in the 4/$100M range (I will predict 4/$90M) for him. Donaldson makes any team in baseball better. Perhaps the Cole contract is too rich for the Twins (he was never a consideration by the team), but JD and others are not. The Twins will show a profit with a payroll of $150M in 2020, more profit with a lower payroll.

As far as Donaldson goes, I want the Twins to add players that make them better; he does.

 

My name is Tarheeltwinsfan and I oppose signing Josh Donaldson due to the cost and due to tying up money which needs to be spent elsewhere (can anyone say "pitching"), and I just do not have a warm, fuzzy feeling about him, plus he is a former catcher with a history of leg problems. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Linus]

If the motivation is to improve the defense this is operating in the margins as third isn’t that critical. Sign Iglesias and move Polanco to second and Arreaz to third. I won’t be thrilled to have Sano at first but now you have an infield that can play some D

[howeda7]

He's not coming here. If he was, he'd have signed a week or two ago. The Nats are at 4 years. Sounds lik the Braves are too. We'd have to out bid them in $ or years. That's not happening.  

[h2oface]

 

We are a few years too late with a Donaldson. I don’t need a “show me you care by throwing a lot of money at a guy” deal. Give me something that makes sense for more than just one year.

 

A few years ago would include 2018, which is good one to have missed. I would bet on him, myself, especially for going for it in 2020 and 2021. If he is part of a Championship in one of those years, I could care less what happens in 2022 and 23. 

 

And if the Braves have gone to 4 years, nothing wrong with a 5th year vesting option based on continued performance using last years numbers as a critera. If he is performing like that, you would be lucky to get him for a 5th year at a price fixed now.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Where did you hear about Atlanta offering a 4th year? I can't find it on their site, MLB or MLB Trade Rumors.

There’s this:

 

https://tomahawktake.com/2019/12/30/atlanta-braves-reportedly-now-offering-four-years-for-josh-donaldson/

 

It’s a blog and unsubstantiated, but they quote a radio interview without a link.

[DocBauer]

Can anyone explain to me why moving Sano to 1st base is going to help the defense? He's going to be involved in a lot more plays at 1st and his defensive short-comings will be on display even more. Is that really where this team wants him? I just don't see improving defense at 3rd and making it worse at 1st is really a good move. I'd rather see Sano stay at 3B this year, sign someone good for 1 year or 2 years at 1st base and then in 2021 move Sano to DH. By then a Kirilloff or Raley or whoever from AAA may step up and be the next Hrbek. As for you Marwin lovers, give me a break. He's the most over-rated player in baseball. Just because he's a utility guy doesn't mean he's good. If he was, he'd have his everyday position and would play there everyday. I'd rather have Escobar back than Marwin 8 days of the week. 

Spend the money on pitching and forget Donaldson. Please!

I think I can help you with this.

 

1] Healthy again after injury in 2018, Donaldson proved again he is a fine defensive 3B. Staying healthy, you would expect a couple more years of quality play at 3B.

 

2] Better overall defense at 3B could actually make Polanco's job a little easier. (Polanco should also continue to get better just through religion as well as a full year with his new throwing motion).

 

3] Sano actually has pretty good hands. He offers the size/length you'd like at 1B. He charges the ball well and has really developed on chasing pop ups. His biggest negative, even in shape, is pure lateral range. That becomes less of an issue at 1B. Given focus on 1B, the skill set is there to be just fine at 1B, especially considering he already has some experience at the position.

 

You add a much better overall bat to your lineup than Cron...who I actually liked...and improve the left side of your defense. Not hard to see a win-win scenario here.

 

I'm OK if this mkve actually happens. Improving ANY AREA of your team is a good move, even if another area needs work done. Your team, your season, is still about improving your team as a WHOLE ENTITY.

 

That being said, let me be clear that I'm OK with Sano at 3B and believe he will continue to improve if left there. I've said that over and over again. I also look at another option at 1B for the short term and see Raley, Rooker and Kirilloff all challenging soon for 1B and don't necessarily see Donaldson as a MUST. But I also believe you improve your team when and where you can and sort issues of playing time and even position later. Can't deny Donaldson's glove and bat aren't at least intriguing. And IF said signing took place, it still doesn't preclude additional pitching additions.

 

I'm doubtful it's going to happen, but very OK if it does. I also clearly see the reasons NOT to over pay or be bummed if he signs elsewhere.

 

I have to say, finally, I think you're missing the point on Marwin. Defensively, he can be solid to good at multiple positions and provides a well rounded offensive game. His greatest strength, however, is his ability to contribute so well at so many spots. Overrated? ONLY if he is asked to play a single position daily. Otherwise, I don't think he's overrated at all.

[ewen21]

Even if he's only good for the first year of a four year deal - which is not unrealistic - it's still worth signing him.

We are up against the Nats and Atlanta. He’s expressed a desire to stay in Atlanta and the Nats just won a championship and lost their third baseman. We will have to go a fifth year to win out on this one.

 

I don’t care how stupid baseball money has gotten. Throwing stupid money at one guy who is old isn’t a magical bullet. At some point a deal stops making sense and yet I get the impression here that there are many who couldn’t be convinced of that reality.

 

I love Donaldson as a player, but we’d be getting a diminished version of him. I don’t know if anyone here has suffered a calf injury. Those stick with you forever when you get older. It’s a constant concern if you had that issue and for an older ball player to have it is a big red flag.

 

I know the name is exciting. I know an imaginary lineup with him in it sure looks good, but is it actually realistic to believe he can even play a full season ever again? That’s a big question mark.

[Oxtung]

We are up against the Nats and Atlanta. He’s expressed a desire to stay in Atlanta and the Nats just won a championship and lost their third baseman. We will have to go a fifth year to win out on this one.

I don’t care how stupid baseball money has gotten. Throwing stupid money at one guy who is old isn’t a magical bullet. At some point a deal stops making sense and yet I get the impression here that there are many who couldn’t be convinced of that reality.

I love Donaldson as a player, but we’d be getting a diminished version of him. I don’t know if anyone here has suffered a calf injury. Those stick with you forever when you get older. It’s a constant concern if you had that issue and for an older ball player to have it is a big red flag.

I know the name is exciting. I know an imaginary lineup with him in it sure looks good, but is it actually realistic to believe he can even play a full season ever again? That’s a big question mark.

He played 155 games last year..... Seems pretty safe to say he is capable of playing a full season.

[USAFChief]

We are up against the Nats and Atlanta. He’s expressed a desire to stay in Atlanta and the Nats just won a championship and lost their third baseman. We will have to go a fifth year to win out on this one.

 

I don’t care how stupid baseball money has gotten. Throwing stupid money at one guy who is old isn’t a magical bullet. At some point a deal stops making sense and yet I get the impression here that there are many who couldn’t be convinced of that reality.

 

I love Donaldson as a player, but we’d be getting a diminished version of him. I don’t know if anyone here has suffered a calf injury. Those stick with you forever when you get older. It’s a constant concern if you had that issue and for an older ball player to have it is a big red flag.

 

I know the name is exciting. I know an imaginary lineup with him in it sure looks good, but is it actually realistic to believe he can even play a full season ever again? That’s a big question mark.

a calf injury sticks with you forever?

 

Source?

[ewen21]

a calf injury sticks with you forever?

 

Source?

ME.

 

Of course I climbed a fairly steep 800 foot ridge about 50-100 times a year for almost 10 years through my 30s and early 40s so mine might be more severe and unique

[ewen21]

He played 155 games last year..... Seems pretty safe to say he is capable of playing a full season.

For how long is the question. He’s 34, man.

 

Admit that this diminish in the near future.

[nicksaviking]

 

For how long is the question. He’s 34, man.

Admit that this diminish in the near future.

 

I'm guessing he won't be playing 3B towards the end of the deal. I don't see much of an injury concern if he's a 1B/DH. 

 

One could argue that they don't want to pay a guy who likely will be a 1B/DH in three years (I wouldn't argue that) but I don't know about putting too much fear in injury situations for a non-pitcher who played 155 games last year and doesn't appear to have any chronic joint-type of malady.

 

I might have stronger opinions against Donaldson if I didn't watch Nelson Cruz rake last year at an age in which the 4th year of Donaldson's deal would occur.

[Diesel]

marwin wasn't even a league average hitter last year. That's a really bad idea.

I’m just not a fan of Frazier’s on base skills or Castellanos’ defense. Wouldn’t be a fan of it, but I don’t think it’d be worth it for what’s left on the market.

[tony&rodney]

The Twins, with the signings of Hill and Bailey, have more reason than yesterday to sign Donaldson.

[ewen21]

I'm guessing he won't be playing 3B towards the end of the deal. I don't see much of an injury concern if he's a 1B/DH.

 

One could argue that they don't want to pay a guy who likely will be a 1B/DH in three years (I wouldn't argue that) but I don't know about putting too much fear in injury situations for a non-pitcher who played 155 games last year and doesn't appear to have any chronic joint-type of malady.

 

I might have stronger opinions against Donaldson if I didn't watch Nelson Cruz rake last year at an age in which the 4th year of Donaldson's deal would occur.

Cruz is an island to himself. Not everyone is as blessed, focused and as conditioned he is. So he shouldn’t be all that relevant in this discussion

 

Wanna know how many position players were in the league at age 36 other than Cruz? Miggy, Pujols and Chin Soo Choo. Two of them have a negative WAR and one had a 1.7 WAR. This version of Josh Donaldson puts us over the top next season? Uh, no.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Wanna know how many position players were in the league at age 36 other than Cruz? Miggy, Pujols and Chin Soo Choo. Two of them have a negative WAR and one had a 1.7 WAR. This version of Josh Donaldson puts us over the top next season? Uh, no.

Donaldson is 36 next season? Did you uncover a birth certificate or something?

 

The absolute number of players at age X in a given season is basically just trivia. Donaldson has already separated himself from the vast majority of pro ballplayers by having a healthy and productive season at 3B at age 33.

 

So what you want to do is compare Donaldson to his peers who performed like him at age 33, and it turns out most of them did quite well at 34 and solidly for a few years thereafter too:

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-to-expect-from-josh-donaldson/

[tony&rodney]

Very strange insistence being forwarded to not sign Josh Donaldson. He improves both defense and offense and has extended tough at bats. The Twins seem to want him to play for our favorite nine. He makes the 2020 Twins better and the front office wants him playing his home games at Target Field. Let all Twins fans hope these negotiations come to fruition. Certainly it is understandable why Atlanta fans would argue that the Twins should never sign JD, but we can let them worry about their own team. Yes, sign JD.

[cardsfan]

and did it?

Look up what happened in late April? He had a few days off to rest his sore calf. Over the years both calves costed him time on the DL.