Article: Trade Deadline Thread: What To Do About the Rotation?

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Luis Arreze I believe has made Lewis available. For all we know Lewis may not pan out, he's not exactly living up to a number 1 overall pick, Arreze is.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Luis Arreze I believe has made Lewis available. For all we know Lewis may not pan out, he's not exactly living up to a number 1 overall pick, Arreze is.

How is Lewis not living up to anything? He struggled early this year as he made mechanical adjustments but has an OPS well over .900 in July.

 

Also, Lewis and Arraez have little overlap. Lewis is a SS that will fall back to CF if he can’t hack the position. Arraez is a second baseman who has acquitted himself well at third over the past month.

[Thrylos]

 

How about a little out of the box:

 

Rosario for Stroman and GIles

 

Need to add Hildenburgen to balance this trade

[Roaddog]

It's not that I don't like Lewis, I just like Kireloff better. I also like our depth at shortstop.

[lukeduke1980]

I'd rather have competent playoff starters than prospects. If it doesn't work for this and next year you can trade off some younger developed vets mid 2020 for the next rebuild.

[Vanimal46]

 

I would do this trade.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I would do this trade.

Yeah... me too, and I wouldn't think too hard about it.

 

The Twins must either really like Larnach or really dislike Stroman or both.

 

Or maybe they feel like they'd be selling low on Graterol. That's possible, too.

[Thrylos]

 

I would do this trade.

 

Everyone other than the Jays would do that trade

[Mike Sixel]

The only negative is that stroman is a free agent, right? That might be a reason not to.... That I can understand.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The only negative is that stroman is a free agent, right? That might be a reason not to.... That I can understand.

Nope, 1.5 years of control.

[Mike Sixel]

Nope, 1.5 years of control.

Then I do it for sure. A corner OF and an often injured minor league pitcher? Do it. If they won't do this, what will they do?

[Dman]

 

I would do this trade.

 

 

Yeah the one player likely blocked the most is Larnach.  Kiriloff is likely a slightly better hitter and younger and our outfield is set for at least 3 to 4 years I believe.  Also they Drafted a Larnach clone in Wallner this year so the well is not dry.  I would hate to have to trade pitching back but they likely need something to replace Stroman with and Graterol's floor looks like elite reliever for 6 years.  Tough to give that up so I understand them pausing there.  Also the Twins would likely need to include a couple more prospects in the 10 to 25 range to seal that deal. 

 

It might be worth it but I am not a Stroman believer.  Isn't his K9 low.  Don't we always talk about needing pitchers who can strike guys out and now we want to settle for a worm burner?  I don't know I personally don't like this deal for the Twins. 

[DocBauer]

I know this thread is about the rotation, but I am going to re-iterate the absolute need for a pair of RP. That HAS to be the priority!

 

I like our rotation. I like it a lot. Some talk about Perez having his bad streak, but he's also looked much, much better his last few starts. Odorizzi has now been in a funk. It happens! More than likely, he is going to come out of it soon. Pineda has done about everything I hoped and expected.

 

Does Stroman, and others mentioned, actually provide a lift? Because unless you are looking to add a rotation piece to be controllable next season, I just don't know that I see any actual improvement being made.

 

There has obviously been a lot of debate about Syndergaard. I am honestly asking...is he an improvement???

 

He's only hit 180IP one time. His next highest total is 154IP. His ERA...not the biggest determining factor I know...is over 4 this year while being in the NL.

 

He is young enough that i think you are still buying potential, but just not sure I'm actually seeing a difference maker at this point. Certainly not worth the reported asking price.

 

If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Then I do it for sure. A corner OF and an often injured minor league pitcher? Do it. If they won't do this, what will they do?

I think either the front office really dislikes Stroman or something was lost in the translation of that tweet (ie. the Jays are rightly hesitant, not the Twins).

[bighat]

Here I am, commenting away thinking this is the game thread. Ha. Sorry all.

[ashbury]

Here I am, commenting away thinking this is the game thread. Ha. Sorry all.

I took the liberty of moving the two posts over there. Hope that helps.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Here I am, commenting away thinking this is the game thread. Ha. Sorry all.

 

I took the liberty of moving the two posts over there. Hope that helps.

I saw it an hour ago but I'm the type of petty bastard that just wanted to sit back and see how long it'd take for someone to figure it out.

 

I'm mildly disappointed, to be honest. I hoped it would go for at least the rest of the game.

[drivlikejehu]

It's pretty rare to see an injured pitching prospect being a key part of a trade. Not sure what to really make of that tweet.

 

I seriously doubt the Twins are unwilling to trade Larnach . . . he's by far their most obvious trade piece that is a legit prospect. In the next tier, the Twins would undoubtedly be more than happy to part with Gordon and Rooker. But those guys obviously won't headline a high-end deal.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It's pretty rare to see an injured pitching prospect being a key part of a trade. Not sure what to really make of that tweet.

 

I seriously doubt the Twins are unwilling to trade Larnach . . . he's by far their most obvious trade piece that is a legit prospect. In the next tier, the Twins would undoubtedly be more than happy to part with Gordon and Rooker. But those guys obviously won't headline a high-end deal.

Agreed across the board.

[Dantes929]

I have asked on several boards for the last week whether anyone has a status or timeline for Graterol.   He has been on the Il for over 2 months now.    I was hopeful he would be able to help the Twins this year yet but have no idea if he will even pitch again this year.    Anyone?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I have asked on several boards for the last week whether anyone has a status or timeline for Graterol.   He has been on the Il for over 2 months now.    I was hopeful he would be able to help the Twins this year yet but have no idea if he will even pitch again this year.    Anyone?

I believe he started rehab just a day or two ago.

[Dantes929]

 

I believe he started rehab just a day or two ago.

Thank you.  He was killing it in AA and I don't think he had much more to prove there.   If he can get back to where he was in 5 weeks or so I could easily see him being one of the missing pieces in the pen.   I have no idea if that is feasible.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Thank you.  He was killing it in AA and I don't think he had much more to prove there.   If he can get back to where he was in 5 weeks or so I could easily see him being one of the missing pieces in the pen.   I have no idea if that is feasible.

He's not going to be in Minnesota this season.

[beckmt]

Would much rather sell a few lower end prospects for rentals.  Twins have had several years of bad play, which has helped our farm system become one of the bests.  Having a #1 pick in the 20's is like owning a lottery ticket.  Far from a sure thing.

[Aerodeliria]

I still think they could swing a bigger deal for Minor and Leclerc. A deal with the Rangers makes a lot of sense. They need infield help desperately and they would probably like at least one more outfielder as well.

[ChiefsKid]

Syndergaard is about to turn 27. He's basically the Mets version of what we have in Jose Berrios, only with one more year of big league service time.

IMO, they are very similar. Thor's "stuff" is probably better (arguably), but Berrios has been able to pitch more.

A 1-2 of Berrios and Syndergaard headlining our 3-year "window" is pretty enticing. Save Kershaw-Ryu and Verlander-Cole (which likely won't even stay intact for the next 3 years), that's among the best 1-2 SP in the game and both relatively cheap, young, and controllable for 2+ years.

To me, that's worth sending Royce Lewis for.

If the Twins weren't very good and we were considering trading Berrios away, I would certainly be asking for other teams' top prospects.

Our system is deep. Very deep. It's time to cash in on the last half decade's worth of 100ish losses. Especially on a guy with Syndergaards pedigree. The window is open now.

Get them to throw in Edwin Diaz and I'm thinking Royce Lewis or Alex Kiriloff as a headliner. Probably not both, but if we can get a halfway decent prospect in addition, I'd at least entertain the idea of Lewis/Kiriloff/Smeltzer for Syndergaard/Diaz/Kilome.

Call me crazy, but I'm sick of the perpetual idea that hoarding prospects means someday eventually we'll have a super team of emerging breakouts.

[Dantes929]

 

Syndergaard is about to turn 27. He's basically the Mets version of what we have in Jose Berrios, only with one more year of big league service time. IMO, they are very similar. Thor's "stuff" is probably better (arguably), but Berrios has been able to pitch more. A 1-2 of Berrios and Syndergaard headlining our 3-year "window" is pretty enticing. Save Kershaw-Ryu and Verlander-Cole (which likely won't even stay intact for the next 3 years), that's among the best 1-2 SP in the game and both relatively cheap, young, and controllable for 2+ years. To me, that's worth sending Royce Lewis for. If the Twins weren't very good and we were considering trading Berrios away, I would certainly be asking for other teams' top prospects. Our system is deep. Very deep. It's time to cash in on the last half decade's worth of 100ish losses. Especially on a guy with Syndergaards pedigree. The window is open now. Get them to throw in Edwin Diaz and I'm thinking Royce Lewis or Alex Kiriloff as a headliner. Probably not both, but if we can get a halfway decent prospect in addition, I'd at least entertain the idea of Lewis/Kiriloff/Smeltzer for Syndergaard/Diaz/Kilome. Call me crazy, but I'm sick of the perpetual idea that hoarding prospects means someday eventually we'll have a super team of emerging breakouts.

Hoarding prospects has given us Garver, Sano, Polanco, Araiz, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Gibson, and Rogers.     Maybe not a super team of emerging breakouts but pretty good and if we had hoarded a little more would have HIcks, Hendricks, and Pressley.    Ok, thats a stretch I know, but every one of those guys was a piece of trade propositions at some point.   The hoarding has not given us great pitching so I am open to the idea of trades.   I am  a little higher on Stroman now than Thor but I do like the control of years on Thor.   Lewis is more versatile than Kiriloff.    I laugh at the idea of both for Thor but like the idea of adding other pieces to make it less laughable.

[ChiefsKid]

Hoarding prospects has given us Garver, Sano, Polanco, Araiz, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Gibson, and Rogers.     

Quite literally my point. We have already done the waiting. Lewis and Kiriloff are not ready to contribute to this team. We could hold on to them and wait until they are ready, and be in the exact same position we are now in 4-5 years when half of the current 25 man roster is gone.

It's only "laughable" if you believe the Twins will still have the same production and price from the aforementioned "graduated prospects" list you just mentioned. Which I would argue is the laughable point.

It would sting. No doubt about it. But Thor is a top of the rotation, young and controllable arm. A move like this would potentially, possibly, limit our ability to compete in 2023-2026. Maybe. I'd argue otherwise given the depth of our system and the age of our emerging roster right now. But it significantly improves our chances of legitimately making a WS run in 2019-2021. I, for one, am sick of waiting.

[Darius]

I’m not concerned about the rotation. Berrios is a legitimate piece. The way Pineda has been pitching, he looks like a solid piece down the stretch. I really like Gibson’s stuff, he can be as good as anybody when he’s on.

 

Eggs and Perez have unsurprisingly crashed back down to earth. But, if those are you biggest rotation issues on the back end, you’re in pretty good shape.

 

I don’t see the point of bringing anyone in (especially if it’s going to take away from addressing the bullpen) unless you’re bringing in Syndergaard, and I don’t see that as particularly realistic. I’d be all for Lewis and some change, but with his struggles who knows if that gets it done. Also, I don’t think Falvine would pull the trigger on that or that the Pohlads would cough up the cash (the PR machine claims they are, but I’ll err in the side of historical precedent until it’s proven otherwise - not buying the lip service).

 

I’m not particularly high on MadBum. It’s seems like there are a whole lot of what-ifs and hopes that he may turn things around like Verlander. What people seem to forget about Verlander is that he battled arm injuries in his last years with the Tigers that they apparently misdiagnosed, costing him potentially years of being effective. MadBum is just an average pitcher, and has been for years now. The peripherals support that. Additionally, that’s in the National League. I wouldn’t be particularly excited about running MadBum out in a game 1 in Houston or New York.

 

In conclusion, don’t overthink this. Allocate all resources to the bullpen at this point. That’s where it’s needed most, and this bullpen will kill us in the playoffs (if it doesn’t keep us from making the playoffs all together).

Edited July 27, 2019 by Darius

[Darius]

Yeah the one player likely blocked the most is Larnach. Kiriloff is likely a slightly better hitter and younger and our outfield is set for at least 3 to 4 years I believe. Also they Drafted a Larnach clone in Wallner this year so the well is not dry. I would hate to have to trade pitching back but they likely need something to replace Stroman with and Graterol's floor looks like elite reliever for 6 years. Tough to give that up so I understand them pausing there. Also the Twins would likely need to include a couple more prospects in the 10 to 25 range to seal that deal.

 

It might be worth it but I am not a Stroman believer. Isn't his K9 low. Don't we always talk about needing pitchers who can strike guys out and now we want to settle for a worm burner? I don't know I personally don't like this deal for the Twins.

I don’t necessarily agree on Larnach. There is a reason why sellers are focusing on him from the Twins system (according to some reports).

 

Is Kirilloff really a better hitter? He’s getting chewed up in AA this year (.730ish OPS). During his meteoric rise, there were some services that had serious questions about how his bat would play as he got closer to the majors.

 

Waller hasn’t left E-town yet. I’m not sure we really know what we have there yet.

 

Not saying Kirilloff has busted. But I’m not convinced he’s better than Larnach. I don’t know if other FOs are either.

 

In addition, Larnach could possibly be a corner OF, 1B, or DH. Cruz and Cron will be gone. We aren’t going to pay all of Rosario, Kepler, and Sano. Not to mention injuries that are frequently shifting people around already (namely to Buxton). I don’t think he’s necessarily as “blocked,” as some are portraying. Things could look a lot different at this time next year.

 

I do agree on Stroman and Giles. I wouldn’t break the bank for that package. Especially with both of their recent injury issues and Giles bad (but small) playoff track record.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Darius