Noah Syndergaard

[SwainZag]

 

You trade both Lewis and Kiriloff because...

...you want to WIN in the playoffs. Not just get there.

 

Point taken, but do you need to both in the same deal?  The package of them is worth ALOT.  You try and get a guy like Thor with one of them and other pieces and re-evaluate.  If it's both or nothing, you sit back look at other options and then decide if it's worth it.

[dbminn]

 

Obviously it sounds like Lewis and Kirilloff would get it done.

But if the Mets are truly intent on moving him, then it might not take that much -- we would only have to outbid the other suitors. I think just one of those two plus maybe two other complementary pieces (among Larnach, Graterol, Duran, Balazovic, etc.) might get it done, in that case.

 

Yes, that is possible. But only Syndergaard and Bauer have been pronounced available with that type of upside and contract control. Hard to tell if Cleveland is serious. Stroman will go somewhere too. I like him but not like Syndergaard. 

 

Prospect raters have a pretty wide range on Kirilloff and Lewis. Hard to say what they are worth but each no more than 60% of that necessary. Graterol is probably not a good fit with shoulder problems. They aren't going to take 2 corner OF. Say Lewis. Add Larnach and Duran/Balazovic and Jeffers. Twins would still need a premium RP and a veteran RP.

 

I wouldn't include Sano in a trade for Syndergaard alone. It was a fun exercise to put together a big trade. I also think Thor, Diaz and Lugo and 2-3 yrs control is worth considering for Sano. Marwin and Arraez can cover better than Perez and 2 current RP help the staff.

 

And by the way, every projection (THE BAT, ATC, Steamer, Zips) had Sano at 2+ WAR this year, before he healed and rehabbed. ZIPs pre-season 3-yr projection has him at 7 WAR. It wasn't a huge imbalance considering his current status. Especially compared to BTV's shot in the dark.

[AZTwin]

I would give them Kirilloff, Alcala, Graterol, Rooker, and Nick Gordon for syndergaard and their reliever. Would be painful but would help the major league team big time

[Roaddog]

I would give them Kirilloff, Alcala, Graterol, Rooker, and Nick Gordon for syndergaard and their reliever. Would be painful but would help the major league team big time

Two of our top prospects even for Thor, is overpaying

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Two of our top prospects even for Thor, is overpaying

It depends how the front office views Syndergaard. If they're confident they see something in him that will turn him into a consistently elite player, I don't know if the Twins *can* overpay for him.

 

And if you see that kind of talent hidden behind a bad pitch selection, mechanical hitch, or whatever, you pay whatever it takes to get the guy. Period.

 

It's not as if the Mets are the most advanced team out there. Look at who's interested in Syndergaard... Houston pops out as an obvious flag that there's even more performance hidden in that talent. Houston paid decently to acquire Verlander and Pressly, then turned around and made them absolutely dominant pitchers, far better than they already were (and both were already very good).

 

Is the same possible with Syndergaard? Can the Twins unlock that extra performance?

 

Dunno to both. Again, this is why I don't get attached to names on jerseys. I want the front office to target the player they can get the most improvement from, dollar for dollar (or prospect to prospect). I want performance, not a name.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Look at who's interested in Syndergaard... Houston pops out as an obvious flag that there's even more performance hidden in that talent. Houston paid decently to acquire Verlander and Pressly,

 

Don't forget Gerrit Cole!

 

Charlie Morton in FA might qualify too.

[AZTwin]

Two of our top prospects even for Thor, is overpaying

We’d be getting their reliever too

[brvama]

From the rumors I’ve read the Mets want to improve their defense, especially up the middle, and have a ML ready SP, not necessarily the headliner of the trade. If true then many of the proposed trades fall short of their desire to acquire ML ready or close players. Thus I’m thinking someone like Thorp or Smeltzer could be included and maybe even Gordon. Don’t know what that does to the headliner, but it’s my guess that we may be over reaching on the prospects we’re proposing. What is it they really want to accomplish drives the players they want. Do we have them?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

From the rumors I’ve read the Mets want to improve their defense, especially up the middle, and have a ML ready SP, not necessarily the headliner of the trade. If true then many of the proposed trades fall short of their desire to acquire ML ready or close players. Thus I’m thinking someone like Thorp or Smeltzer could be included and maybe even Gordon. Don’t know what that does to the headliner, but it’s my guess that we may be over reaching on the prospects we’re proposing. What is it they really want to accomplish drives the players they want. Do we have them?

And, because it's the Mets, god only knows what that might be. It could be an unreasonable request, or it could be something Falvey can't say "yes" to quickly enough.

[FormerMinnasotan]

I’d trade for Syndergaard if I could. My trade proposal would be Larnach, Kohl Stewart or Thorpe, and Graterol for Syndergaard.

[darin617]

People never seem to take into account that most of these NL pitchers rarely have faced line ups with DH's instead of pitchers that can't hit their weight for average.

 

The Mets also may be moving him now since his numbers are dropping off and if they waited until this winter the return would be even less.

 

For what it's worth I would rather have Lance Lynn than Thor. Better contract and better numbers this season.

[AZTwin]

People never seem to take into account that most of these NL pitchers rarely have faced line ups with DH's instead of pitchers that can't hit their weight for average.

 

The Mets also may be moving him now since his numbers are dropping off and if they waited until this winter the return would be even less.

 

For what it's worth I would rather have Lance Lynn than Thor. Better contract and better numbers this season.

Any trade for him has to include Lugo or Diaz. Just my opinion

[Roaddog]

If we are doing combo deals, much prefer Stroman and Giles

[Roaddog]

Or Minor And Lecerc

[drivlikejehu]

I wouldn't trade Lewis and Kirilloff for Syndegaard. My max offer would be Lewis as headliner and then 2-3 next tier guys. And even that is pricing in Wes Johnson magic, because the numbers don't really justify it.

[cmoss84]

 

Point taken, but do you need to both in the same deal?  The package of them is worth ALOT.  You try and get a guy like Thor with one of them and other pieces and re-evaluate.  If it's both or nothing, you sit back look at other options and then decide if it's worth it.

I'm guessing there will be at least 3-5 teams that make strong, legit offers to the Mets. Someone is going to pony up-just hope it is us.

If we do give up both, it would be nice to get a reliever or two back from them as well. But who knows. 

If Houston ends up with him, and they have Verlander/Cole/Thor, good luck!

[nicksaviking]

Latest reports are that the Mets are most interested in what the Padres and Braves can offer as they want MLB ready starting pitching, though not necessarily as the top piece. Might have been a good idea to not have used Thorpe last night so they could have found a start for him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Latest reports are that the Mets are most interested in what the Padres and Braves can offer as they want MLB ready starting pitching, though not necessarily as the top piece. Might have been a good idea to not have used Thorpe last night so they could have found a start for him.

I think the Mets can extrapolate Thorpe’s recent performances into starting if they’re interested.

 

Unfortunately, if the Mets are truly seeking MLB ready pitching, the Twins don’t have a lot of that to offer.

 

On the other hand, it’s pretty dumb to trade away a pitcher and expect a good MLB pitcher in return. If the Twins had a decent young starter, they wouldn’t need Syndergaard as much. But hey, it kinda seems like “stupid” and “Mets” go hand in hand nowadays.

[Mike Sixel]

I think the Mets can extrapolate Thorpe’s recent performances into starting if they’re interested.

 

Unfortunately, if the Mets are truly seeking MLB ready pitching, the Twins don’t have a lot of that to offer.

 

On the other hand, it’s pretty dumb to trade away a pitcher and expect a good MLB pitcher in return. If the Twins had a decent young starter, they wouldn’t need Syndergaard as much. But hey, it kinda seems like “stupid” and “Mets” go hand in hand nowadays.

There's a difference between Wright ready, and a Syndergaard though. One is going to very likely help this year and next. One might be ready next year, or might not. The relative value for both is different depending on where you are competitively. But that's the kind of guy the Mets probably want.

 

I was told the best plan was to draft hitters and trade for pitchers. Let's see if that happens or not....

[redstorm]

If we are doing combo deals, much prefer Stroman and Giles

I guess if you’re factoring in cost, I’d maybe agree with you. But if the price is the same, Syndergaard/Diaz is better than Stroman/Giles or Minor/LeClerc and it’s not close

[AZTwin]

We have a lot of near ready pitching to offer. Gonsalves, Smeltzer, Thorpe, Romero, Stewart, Alcala, Jax, Charlie Barnes, Byron Sammons, and Tyler Wells all in AAA or AA. If they wanted near major league ready pitching I’d offer any combination of 2 of them along with Kirilloff. I’d even add Graterol if they add Diaz or Lugo

[Roaddog]

I guess if you’re factoring in cost, I’d maybe agree with you. But if the price is the same, Syndergaard/Diaz is better than Stroman/Giles or Minor/LeClerc and it’s not close

Not a fan of Diaz, so I disagree

[Brock Beauchamp]

We have a lot of near ready pitching to offer. Gonsalves, Smeltzer, Thorpe, Romero, Stewart, Alcala, Jax, Charlie Barnes, Byron Sammons, and Tyler Wells all in AAA or AA. If they wanted near major league ready pitching I’d offer any combination of 2 of them along with Kirilloff. I’d even add Graterol if they add Diaz or Lugo

There’s a lot of MLB ready pitching in the org, the question is if any of it is good pitching.

 

And if that’s what the Mets are looking for, it won’t be hard for other teams to beat the Twins’ offer in that regard.

[AZTwin]

There’s a lot of MLB ready pitching in the org, the question is if any of it is good pitching.

 

And if that’s what the Mets are looking for, it won’t be hard for other teams to beat the Twins’ offer in that regard.

I think those names are equivalent to Phil Humber/Kevin Mulvey we were offered for Santana. With 2 you have a bigger chance they’ll succeed too. Add in a top 20 player like Kirilloff and maybe add in a guy further away but higher upside like a Graterol and you have a top end package for Thor and Diaz/or Lugo

[cmoss84]

I just don't see Whitley and Tucker not being the winning bid.

[cmoss84]

Unless Whitley has an injury that won't allow it to happen...

[jorgenswest]

I just don't see Whitley and Tucker not being the winning bid.

It will be good if the Twins push the bid that high and get them out of the Astros system.

 

I don’t know what long term concerns the Mets might have about Whitley’s shoulder but the same could be said about Graterol.

[redstorm]

Not a fan of Diaz, so I disagree

So if we’re assuming the cost is the same, are you saying you’d overpay for Stroman/Giles (I don’t think it should cost Lewis or Kirilloff, but if you’re saying the cost is the same I’m assuming you’d give Lewis or Kirilloff))? Or are you saying you wouldn’t pay the going rate for Syndergaard/Diaz (would cost Lewis and/or Kirilloff)

[nicksaviking]

I just don't see Whitley and Tucker not being the winning bid.

That seems more than I’d think the Astros would offer, but maybe not.

 

It would be nice though if the Mets truly won’t deal with the Yankees or Braves in fear of looking bad by losing a trade. I’d normally think that rumor is all crap, but the Wilpons do seem pretty neurotic and baseball un-savvy

[jorgenswest]

Watch for a team to jump in a day or two before the deadline and up their offer for Stroman while other teams are negotiating for Syndergaard. Toronto may take that improved offer fearing that the Mets are going to play this out to the end.