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Noah Syndergaard

labcrazy

By labcrazy
in Minnesota Twins Talk

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redstorm College Ball

redstorm

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

A validated trade on baseballtradevalues.com:

MIN receives: Noah Syndergaard

NYM receives: Kirilloff, Graterol, Gordon, Romero

 

If the Mets offered this, I'd accept before they could hang up and change their minds.

 

Looking at it again, it actually seems fairly reasonable for both sides.

Vanimal46 Cooperstown

Vanimal46

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

If the Mets offered this, I'd accept before they could hang up and change their minds.

 

Looking at it again, it actually seems fairly reasonable for both sides.

That's the beauty of that website!

diehardtwinsfan Minnesota Twins

diehardtwinsfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

If the Mets offered this, I'd accept before they could hang up and change their minds.

 

Looking at it again, it actually seems fairly reasonable for both sides.

 

Not sure I would personally. But that's me. My big issue is that Thor hasn't been that good this year. I'd hope our scouts/nerds would have a good plan as for why to give up that kind of capital. If they did, I could definitely get behind headlining Graterol…

redstorm College Ball

redstorm

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Not sure I would personally. But that's me. My big issue is that Thor hasn't been that good this year. I'd hope our scouts/nerds would have a good plan as for why to give up that kind of capital. If they did, I could definitely get behind headlining Graterol…

 

Just for fun, I played around a little on the baseballtradevalues site as well. Would you feel better or worse about this package? (and I know your issue lies more with Thor than the package Vanimal queued up):

 

Lewis, Larnach, Romero, and Miranda

SpicyGarvSauce Draft Eligible

SpicyGarvSauce

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

A validated trade on baseballtradevalues.com:

MIN receives: Noah Syndergaard

NYM receives: Kirilloff, Graterol, Gordon, Romero

 

Sign me up for that. Immediately.

 

Heck, throw in Kohl Stewart too. I mean, just get this done.

SpicyGarvSauce Draft Eligible

SpicyGarvSauce

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

 

Not sure I would personally. But that's me. My big issue is that Thor hasn't been that good this year. I'd hope our scouts/nerds would have a good plan as for why to give up that kind of capital. If they did, I could definitely get behind headlining Graterol…

 

Why hasn't he been that good this year?

 

Look at the underlying statistics. He has been just fine, also when you consider the disaster that are the Mets.

Cap'n Piranha Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

Cap'n Piranha

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Power pitchers who lose velocity in their age 26 season, and have a history of collecting injuries worry me.  Syndergaard has only hit 180 innings in a season once in his entire MiLB/MLB career, and is about to start costing close to $20M a year.  Unless the Pohlads are ready to head to $150m to $175M payroll range, getting Syndergaard probably means saying goodbye to at least one guy from the Buxton/Berrios/Rosario group.  Therefore, if the price to acquire includes more than one of Lewis, Kiriloff, Larnach, and Graterol, I say no.  If they want one of those four, plus some combo of Gordon, Jeffers, Rortvedt, Cavaco, Davis, etc. I'm ok with it.

 

Also, Johan was a far superior pitcher than Syndergaard at the time he was traded.  Sure, a bit less control, but had just completed his fourth straight year of 200+ IP with at least 4 WAR, and that 4 WAR was a down year from the previous 3 (6.8, 7.1, 6.7).  Johan led all starters in WAR over that range with 24.6--only 3 other pitchers were over 20.  He was also only one of 8 pitchers to average 9K/9 over that timeframe--31 pitchers have done that in the last 4 full seasons.  Johan was the best pitcher in baseball when he was traded; over the past 4 years, Syndergaard has been 15th.  Great, but not at the same level.

Otto von Ballpark All-Star

Otto von Ballpark

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Why hasn't he been that good this year?

 

Look at the underlying statistics. He has been just fine, also when you consider the disaster that are the Mets.

 

Last I looked, Syndergaard's K% had fallen each of the last 3 years, to the point where it was just a little above league average now.

cmoss84 First Round Pick

cmoss84

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Broken record post of the day.

Get Thor and Lugo/Diaz at any cost.

He is as acey as you're going to get. Do it. Now.

nicksaviking MVP

nicksaviking

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Power pitchers who lose velocity in their age 26 season, and have a history of collecting injuries worry me.

I’ll give you the injury history, but his four seamer has been sitting 98-99 MPH all season.

 

The guy has five pitches in his bag, I like those guys to be able to adjust repertoire and approach when needed.

 

And if there’s one thing the organization should get congratulated on when it comes to pitching, and it might actually just be one thing, they have been keeping them healthy.

Vanimal46 Cooperstown

Vanimal46

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Power pitchers who lose velocity in their age 26 season, and have a history of collecting injuries worry me. Syndergaard has only hit 180 innings in a season once in his entire MiLB/MLB career, and is about to start costing close to $20M a year. Unless the Pohlads are ready to head to $150m to $175M payroll range, getting Syndergaard probably means saying goodbye to at least one guy from the Buxton/Berrios/Rosario group. Therefore, if the price to acquire includes more than one of Lewis, Kiriloff, Larnach, and Graterol, I say no. If they want one of those four, plus some combo of Gordon, Jeffers, Rortvedt, Cavaco, Davis, etc. I'm ok with it.

 

Also, Johan was a far superior pitcher than Syndergaard at the time he was traded. Sure, a bit less control, but had just completed his fourth straight year of 200+ IP with at least 4 WAR, and that 4 WAR was a down year from the previous 3 (6.8, 7.1, 6.7). Johan led all starters in WAR over that range with 24.6--only 3 other pitchers were over 20. He was also only one of 8 pitchers to average 9K/9 over that timeframe--31 pitchers have done that in the last 4 full seasons. Johan was the best pitcher in baseball when he was traded; over the past 4 years, Syndergaard has been 15th. Great, but not at the same level.

Couple of things... 180 innings is a lofty goal for any SP. I'd be curious to know how many SP today are on pace to match or eclipse that.

 

If he continues to get injured and miss time, he's not making $20+ million in arbitration.

 

And the Johan trade was screwed from the get go because the past regime refused to trade him in the same league. There were much better offers available from the Yankees and Red Sox at the time but TR didn't want to do the deals.

Mr. Brooks Cedar Rapids Kernels

Mr. Brooks

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Why hasn't he been that good this year?

 

Look at the underlying statistics. He has been just fine, also when you consider the disaster that are the Mets.

Which underlying stats am I supposed to look at?

His k rate is career low, his bb and hit rate are career high, and his FIP is career worst by a lot.

 

I'd still like to get him, with the assumption that the Mets are such a mess that they are doing something wrong, but the underlying stats I looked at aren't fine.

Mr. Brooks Cedar Rapids Kernels

Mr. Brooks

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Couple of things... 180 innings is a lofty goal for any SP. I'd be curious to know how many SP today are on pace to match or eclipse that.

 

If he continues to get injured and miss time, he's not making $20+ million in arbitration.

 

And the Johan trade was screwed from the get go because the past regime refused to trade him in the same league. There were much better offers available from the Yankees and Red Sox at the time but TR didn't want to do the deals.

If I remember right, a hot young pitching prospect named Kershaw was also possibly on the table. Perhaps that was bad reporting or I'm misremembering, but if he was, that's an awful miss.

mike8791 Draft Eligible

mike8791

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

In a previous blog on TD, I thought the Twins should jump at the chance to trade for Thor.  His age, track record, stuff all spell ACE.  If the Twins do qualify for the playoffs, such an ace is a prerequisite for any team who hopes to advance beyond the first round.  We couldn't do it with Santana in Game 1 in 2006, but that was a much inferior Twins' offense.

 

Our bullpen woes have been woefully exposed in the past couple weeks, and I trust the Wonder Boys finally realize this fact, belatedly.  But assuming they make some positive moves in this direction in the next 6 days, the team's glaring absence of an ace starter have become obvious.  Berrios is our #1 pitcher now, no doubt, but does anyone expect he will stand up tall and shutdown a team like NY or Houston or even Oakland or Cleveland in a must win game(let's see how pitches tonight against Giolito and the Sox before we even get to the playoff round)?  He simply is too inconsistent especially with his control.  When is the last time he completed more than six innings?  Odorizzi and Pineda have had streaks but their track records do not provide a lot of confidence in big game showdowns.

 

If the Mets are stupid enough to make Thor available, then the Twins must jump at the chance.  In my earlier post, thinking the Mets would be unwilling to go in for a rebuild, I suggested a Sano, Castro, Gibson trade, with a couple of #10-#20 prospects as throw ins.  Yes, a risk to trade Sano, especially with his resurgence, but one the team should take.  With today's MLBTR news on the Mets and Thor(which I still find hard to believe), it would seem they are willing to take prospects.  Amazing Mets!!  Yes, I would give up Lewis or Kirrilof + two other top 10 prospects in a heartbeat!!

 

Adding someone like Thor plus two established relievers would turn a good team into a real threat to take it all.  This is the best chance we've had since 1991 and if Falvey doesn't pounce, we know this mgt. team lacks the guts and the will to roll the dice and bring another championship to the TC.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed but the long history of this muddling franchise says no to what seems like a no-brainer move here!  Hope they prove all us doubters wrong!!

diehardtwinsfan Minnesota Twins

diehardtwinsfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

Couple of things... 180 innings is a lofty goal for any SP. I'd be curious to know how many SP today are on pace to match or eclipse that.

If he continues to get injured and miss time, he's not making $20+ million in arbitration.

And the Johan trade was screwed from the get go because the past regime refused to trade him in the same league. There were much better offers available from the Yankees and Red Sox at the time but TR didn't want to do the deals.

 

actually, Johan screwed the Johan trade. He had a no trade clause, and he used it. 

 

in retrospect... I guess the FO did screw that by not giving him more in exchange for not having that clause... 

Jham FCL Twins

Jham

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

actually, Johan screwed the Johan trade. He had a no trade clause, and he used it.

 

in retrospect... I guess the FO did screw that by not giving him more in exchange for not having that clause...

He was a rental. I really doubt we'd have gotten more from any team that wasn't going to sign him to a huge deal anyhow.

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